Question about flying

[Ripstied]

I'm confused about #12, never clip wings. I'm new at this, but most of the research I've read says it's dangerous for a cockatoo to be able to fly around at high speeds inside a house. They could run into a window or mirror, breaking their neck, or could escape. Also they get much more aggressive and territorial, let alone how destructive when let on loose. One source did recommend doing a 'partial' trim so too can still fly but not have as much lift or speed. What do you think?

 

[Hawk]

I'm confused about #12, never clip wings. I'm new at this, but most of the research I've read says it's dangerous for a cockatoo to be able to fly around at high speeds inside a house. They could run into a window or mirror, breaking their neck, or could escape. Also they get much more aggressive and territorial, let alone how destructive when let on loose. One source did recommend doing a 'partial' trim so too can still fly but not have as much lift or speed. What do you think?

It's a question that draws answers from both ends of the spectrum.

It's basically one left to the eye of the beholder. My Opinion??

Know your bird, and develop the trust. If you and your bird have a tremendous trust when coming to being fully flighted, why clip them

My Zon Poppie is fully capable of flying, and doesn't have wings clipped.
She can go out side with me and sit with me for hours. I never worry about her. My Grey on the other hand would spend all day flying if he could, same with my Senegal. So both are partially clipped. Though my Grey has become used to a flight harness, I will let his feathers grow back.
My Ekkie is not clipped either.

Flight harnesses tend to have mixed reviews, I witnessed a Grey with a flight harness that gotten wrapped up in a tree, took nearly 3 hours to get it down as the poor thing was dangling upside down. I'm not against flight harnesses, but always analyze the area to intend have the harnessed bird fly around in. Dangers lurk at every corner. Many Vets I know say NO to harnesses, but leave it to your own choice.

I lost my Falcon 2 summers ago when flight training and allowing it to catch it's own food. It made a sharp turn thru the pines and thought hey it caught it's first sparrow. But the shock when I found it had crashed and broke it's neck. I can't describe the feeling.

So Again, I say, it's not all training and reading all you can about it, that's 90 % of it, The main point is knowing your bird, and knowing what's the safest approach in your house and area. Everyone has different set ups and living arrangements, so it can vary greatly.

 

[Anansi]

Whether or not to clip is a hotly debated topic amongst keepers of parrots, but ultimately it's a personal choice.

In my home, my birds are kept fully flighted. I've introduced them to every nook and cranny of my house, trained them exhaustively and painstakingly, and driven home the concept of glass windows.

A little more work? Certainly. But it's worth it to see them flying happily and skillfully about your house. For the training, start small. Practice in a small bedroom. Once they've mastered flying in such cramped environs, you can begin working with them in the larger areas of your home.

Are there circumstances in which I'd clip? Yes. If the bird in question became a danger to either him/herself, or to others. (Strafing attack birds, for instance. Or an adult bird who had a propensity toward panicked flight and was constantly flying into walls. Hard.)

And even then I'd do it in the hopes that it was a temporary measure.

But each person must do what works for their own household.

 

[SilverSage]

First, I want to say that I'm about to express my opinions. I came by them through intense research, study, and observation of my own birds, but there are many people out there who disagree with me and whom I still deeply respect. This is one of those topics that can get ugly because we all want what's best for our birds, but let's all be sure to play nice

There is a lot more to the clipping/not clipping debate than most people realize, and one of those key factors is AGE. A bird who is properly fledged and given lots of time to become an expert flier when his feathers first grow in is leaps and bounds ahead of his counterparts. This is something that makes many people defensive, but that is not what I want. I wish everyone could see the difference in two sibling birds of any species, raised exactly the same way, except that one was allowed to fly for at least eight weeks (more if they are larger) before being clipped. The difference in intellect, temperament, and confidence is stunning. It's a developmental thing. Learning to fly is hard and complicated, and mastering it builds some incredible thought pathways in the brain of a bird. Also, clipping a young bird before full fledging usually leads to that bird being a terrible flier for the rest of his life, thus increasing the risk of injury later on if you or another owner decides to let him fly.

Clipping also removes the "flight" option from the famous "fight or flight" question, or as I like to call it in birds "flight or bite" leaving well, only "bite" as an option when they are frightened. When a bird is too young when given his first clip, this can actually stunt his development so that "bite" is the only option he knows, and he will bite whenever he feels threatened.

I also feel that in many cases having a bird that can fly is safer, as they can get themselves out of harms way faster BUT THAT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE HOME! Some homes have kids who leave doors open, parents who leave ceiling fans on, etc. other homes have predators and flight is safer. What I'm saying is, one all inclusive "clipping is safest" or "flighted is safest" is naive. Each family needs to evaluate their own risks, but PLEASE don't clip babies.

Do I clip?
Yes, but I prefer flight.
-Mel is 100% flightless, I don't think she has ever been clipped. When something startles her she flies to me.
-Battle is also an expert flier and uses that skill to fly to the nearest man for scritches; the little hussy!
-All of my cockatiels and budgies are flighted, though not all are tame. I had the tiels in a big flight cage to exercise until a low down rotten thief came and stole a bunch of birds.
-Cache was clipped very short for her first year of life. She is incredibly phobic because of it and will not allow flight feathers to grow in.
-Flick is a sweetheart when clipped and a beast when flighted. We clip her.
-Tex has never flown as far as I know, and he is also phobic. I can't wait for him to molt.
-Sam and Lady both have all their feathers but both were clipped as babies I think, both fly only when startled, and hey fly BADLY and crash.


Basically what I'm saying is not only is it a personal choice for safety, it is also bird by bird, situation by situation. I wish every bird I own could have full flight because I see how they love to fly, but some cannot.

 

[Jayyj]

For me it comes down to feeling that, although I appreciate the risks of a bird being flighted, the improvement to her quality of life outweigh the risks by considerable margin.

I've given my perspective in more detail in other threads on the subject, but essentially my bird was badly clipped when I got her - one wing hacked away in such a way that she was guaranteed to crash if she tried to fly, which she did when she was scared and the sight of her winded on the floor panting with fear will always stay with me. Now she's flighted if something scares her she takes off, assesses the risk and often drops back on my lap as though nothing happened. I don't think she ever learned to fly and she never flies except as a far response, but being flighted makes a massive difference to her confidence.

A lot has been written about certain parrot species such as galahs that would fly considerable distances a day in the wild being prone to health issues (fatty lipomas, liver desease) relating to lack of appropriate exercise, and in those cases keeping them flighted if at all possible is a help in keeping them fit and healthy.

I have a book on cockatoos in my collection that makes a lot of claims about how leaving a bird unclipped is irresponsible and tantamount to cruelty, but the better books I've read on the subject lay out the arguments for and against and leave the individual to make the best decision for their bird and their circumstances.

 

[HisAngel]

I agree with what SilverSage has said. My Rosa is fully flighted and I will never clip her. However, she came to me clipped, and was clipped from a very young bird. She has tried to fly twice here, only when she was very frightened and trying to get either to me or to her cage. Watching her fly is heartbreaking. She is frantic, terrified and mostly just crashes into everything. The fridge, the wall, other people, the counter. She doesn't land, she merely falls from the air, landing on her face or chest. Her vision is a concern, but we cant find a reason for it without extensive and $$$$ testing that I'm not willing to do at this time, so that is a concern also. But I dont believe she's ever properly sorted out how flying works. And to me, that's a tragedy. She's a BIRD it's a basic life skill she should have in my opinion. I would feel much better about her safety should she be able to fly if she escaped. The lay out of our home makes it very impropable that she'll ever get outside 'by accident'. But we take her with us on a harness often when its warm enough, and if she somehow got loose, I would feel much better if she flew, tbh.

My new baby will not be trimmed while at the breeders or when he comes home. If down the road, once he's got flight down and maybe needs to be 'taken down a notch or two' temperament wise, Ill decide on that then, but in the end, I want him to be able to be a bird, and have the option of flight.

 

[SilverSage]

I should also mention that I find recall training to be very important, flighted or not (but it's easier to train if they can fly). We consider coming when called to be an important skill for a dog, and parrots are smarter than most dogs, why do so few people teach their birds to come when called?

 

[gracebowen]

Mine are fully flighted. My tiel came with a bad clip and is just now learning to fly. Be is also starting to like it. He flew yesterday just to fly. One of my Budgies was clipped when I got him. He could still fly fairly well for short periods of time.

I prefer mine flighted. I don't have to worry about being attacked since mine are so small. Now I know a tiel can bite hard but mine never has. He prefers to run or fly away.

 

[Ann333]

My breeder allowed all the birds at her house to fly, so Pumpkin did learn to fly as a baby. He was three months old when i brought him home, so maybe not as well as he should have learned, but still. I talked to my breeder before picking him up and we both decided that because he was my very first bird i should clip him to bond and get a feeling for birds. Then i could let his wings grow out later. I am glad i had him clipped, not for him, but for myself. Now that i have had him since January, I cant wait for his flight feathers to grow back and experience him in all his birdy glory. I feel like there is a whole very new chapter approaching and im very excited to learn.

I realy think it is all about you, your bird, and your situation. No one can know whats best for you, but hopefully some of these stories and opinions will be helpful, Good luck.

 

[chris-md]

I kept my conure clipped and flighted. I was in high school and thought clipped was the only way I could bring her outside. So she got a lot of outside playing in but I was also limited financially (I paid for all her stuff and didn't work so little income), so clipping was sporadic. I also settled at times for taking her outside and just holding her toes with my thumb.

For my future bird, whenever that happens, I would prefer flighted as well. However, I might have to clip for safety reasons. Every room the bird would be in has a ceiling fan that's constantly going during the summer, and knowing my partner I don't see us turning them off. Flighted during the winter would be an option though. Given that it would possibly be an eclectus, I might look to get one later in the year so they would have the winter to get used to flying and build the confidence, as I know that's important for the young ones of this species.

 

[Jayyj]

I agree with what SilverSage has said. My Rosa is fully flighted and I will never clip her. However, she came to me clipped, and was clipped from a very young bird. She has tried to fly twice here, only when she was very frightened and trying to get either to me or to her cage. Watching her fly is heartbreaking. She is frantic, terrified and mostly just crashes into everything. The fridge, the wall, other people, the counter. She doesn't land, she merely falls from the air, landing on her face or chest. Her vision is a concern, but we cant find a reason for it without extensive and $$$$ testing that I'm not willing to do at this time, so that is a concern also. But I dont believe she's ever properly sorted out how flying works.

That sounds like Alice - no real control to her flying, no ability to land with any finesse. It's not her eye sight (there's an easy way to test parrot eyesight that is also completely free: take any treat that is not suitable for birds, sit a good way away from her and try to eat it yourself without her noticing. If it takes more than ten seconds for her to make a beeline for you with a glint in her eye, maybe she has eyesight problems!). The one saving grace is she goes as slowly as she can without stalling, so she tends not to crash into things at any sort of speed. I'm convinced this is down to not learning in the first place. Her confidence is improving and I'm sure Rosa's will as well given time, but I don't think she'll ever be an expert.

 

[Hawk]

I kept my conure clipped and flighted. I was in high school and thought clipped was the only way I could bring her outside. So she got a lot of outside playing in but I was also limited financially (I paid for all her stuff and didn't work so little income), so clipping was sporadic. I also settled at times for taking her outside and just holding her toes with my thumb.

For my future bird, whenever that happens, I would prefer flighted as well. However, I might have to clip for safety reasons. Every room the bird would be in has a ceiling fan that's constantly going during the summer, and knowing my partner I don't see us turning them off. Flighted during the winter would be an option though. Given that it would possibly be an eclectus, I might look to get one later in the year so they would have the winter to get used to flying and build the confidence, as I know that's important for the young ones of this species.

I loved watching my birds fly, my Senegal (nearly 3 yrs old now) is quite good and very good at recall. He'll see me and wait for me to call him over which I'll say " ok...come on" holding my arm up. And when He's had enough I point to his perch and he goes back to it.

But Birdell ( my Senegal) has a bad foot which he broke when he was 6 months old) his foot is in the open mode, thus he can't grip with that foot.
basically has one foot to grip with. He's had a couple potentially near tragic accidents losing his grip and falling while trying to land. Fell into the dish sink filled with water, and recently missed my wifes shoulder and nearly landing on the turned on stove.

I had to break down and have him partially clipped, for his own safety. It's heart breaking, but I love that bird and think it's for the best for now.

My Grey was a great flyer too, and was always flying.....too much actually.
But having him partially clipped allowed him to settle down some and begin harness training which he has now accepted, yet wouldn't accept being flighted.

My Zon and Ekkie have not been clipped. My Zon can go anywhere out side and I do not worry about her. She flys right back to me. My Ekkie is a baby yet and hasn't tried to fly yet. I want the opportunity for it to do so and I have already introduced it to a flight harness.

 

[itchyfeet]

It seems there is no 'right' answer!
My IRN came to me with hacked wings. Clearly this isn't a good thing given how unstable it made him, however it did give me the chance to get some decent training in, and he was still able to come outside before we completed harness training. Now, he wears his harness like a pro and by the time he's fully flighted, he'll still be able to come out and about.
My 'tiel is fully flighted. She lives on curtain rails, and is also harness trained, never clipped.
Now my inlaws 20something too has only been with them for a year or so. He grew up not clipped, and never taking off. He was clipped once, when he first came to the inlaws. He's now fully flighted again. He's taken off once, only to do a full circle, land back in the garden, and when he was offered a hand up he was the cuddliest, smoochiest bird ever, he had given himself a real fright!
If you weigh it up and deem it necessary even once, then just make sure it's done correctly and carefully.

 

[Ripstied]

Thanks to everyone for great advice. I am picking up my new umbrella cockatoo in 2 weeks. She's 1.5 years old and as far as I know she's always been clipped. I am a first time bird owner but very experienced for years with animals. I've done weeks of extensive research on cockatoos, but the flight issue has been a hard one for me. I feel in my heart that it's just not "right" for a bird not to have the option to fly. My house has no inherent dangers inside other than windows. It's a huge house with giant open ceiling rooms, which is ideal. I like the idea of bonding and building the trust while the wings are growing back. By then I'll have a better notion of which direction to go. I worry about doors left open ( I have 3 kids). I hate to say it, but I also worry about my leather couches and extensive wood work! Wish me luck!! I can't wait. I've spent hours with her ( I think her name will be Kili. Haven't decided). She seems so calm, quiet, and content. So unlike what I've heard about toos! I've been going a little nutty waiting to bring her home. I bought a giant cage and Java tree and a mountain of toys, perches, etc. if I can figure how to post a picture, I will. Thanks again, everyone!

 

[JerseyWendy]

Here you go, this will hopefully help you with the photos (we all LOOOVE pictures)
http://www.parrotforums.com/technical-support/6287-how-post-pictures.html

AND....welcome to the forums!!

 

[itchyfeet]

I've done weeks of extensive research on cockatoos, but the flight issue has been a hard one for me. I feel in my heart that it's just not "right" for a bird not to have the option to fly. My house has no inherent dangers inside other than windows. It's a huge house with giant open ceiling rooms, which is ideal. I like the idea of bonding and building the trust while the wings are growing back. By then I'll have a better notion of which direction to go. Wish me luck!! I can't wait. I've spent hours with her ( I think her name will be Kili. Haven't decided). She seems so calm, quiet, and content. So unlike what I've heard about toos! I've been going a little nutty waiting to bring her home. I bought a giant cage and Java tree and a mountain of toys, perches, etc. if I can figure how to post a picture, I will. Thanks again, everyone!

That's great! Seems you're well informed whichever way you decide to play it.
I'd heard lots of dreadful things about too's, adopting too's, too's noise etc. I was highly skeptical when my inlaws came home with their Sulfur but aside from a few occasions of clear out to get me testing, he's actually been a really easy going bird. A hang of a load of work, but not that neurotic at all. He's coming to stay with me soon for ten days! I've he'd my ground and stayed consistent and he's been just wonderful. How old are your children? My inlaws have 5 grandchildren between the ages of six-one, and he's more than happy to join in in any fighting or yelling lol!

 

[SilverSage]

As for woodwork, etc, set boundaries early. Pick a place she CAN get to that you don't want her to sit. Every time she goes there, shoo her away immediately. Every time, right away. It will teach her there are places she is not allowed to be in your house right from the get go. No making a big deal of it, just shoo her until she isn't on it. Depending on the bird you might not want to use your bare hands, but the point is NOT. To frighten her, so be sure to use something she isn't afraid of. Soon she will learn she isn't to be there. Then when she begins to fly and hang off your wood work, etc, simply shoo her away in the same fashion. She may not like it, but she will already have the basic understanding that you are informing her that is not her place. Now, her understanding doesn't mean her obeying, but she certainly cannot obey without understanding, can she? Fair disclosure, I have never tried this on a cockatoo. But it has worked with IRNs, Conures, budgies, cockatiels, and Pionus so far.

 

[JerseyWendy]

.....Every time she goes there, shoo her away immediately. Every time, right away. It will teach her there are places she is not allowed to be in your house right from the get go. .....

That doesn't work for my Sam, whom I've raised from a baby. He thinks it's GREAT old fun when I go chasing him off, only so that he can immediately land on another 'no-no' spot. :54: It worked with Hunter though. Both Ripley and Niko believe if they can get to it - it's theirs. And they even tell me "No-no-nooooo", as I rapidly approach.

 

[SilverSage]

Lol, sorry it doesn't work for you. Every parrot is different! But better to have something to at least try before just taking away flight if that is the only concern, right?

 

[JerseyWendy]

Oh yes, absolutely! I know mine keep me fit. LMAO! And on my tippy toes, too....AND laughing a whole lot! (And sometimes a tad bit on edge... :32