Sad - my Amazon hates me now :(

[awdee]

My Blue Fronted Amazon just made me cry

I got him Mar 1 of this yr he's a 13 yr old male we started off he loved to be petted and I had thought that we were developing a relationship. Then I made the fatal mistake of going on a 3-wk vacation in Sept. I made a big effort to find him a good bird sitter but perhaps it was a little too nice? Or it's just that he felt abandoned by me. He had a minor biting issue before but now I realize those were just nips, now I know what a real bite is

He's holding a grudge against me almost bit my thumb off the day I came back. Since then he was biting me each time I interacted with him. When he bit my face that was too much for me to handle. I know I've been told I never should've let him sit on my shoulder next to my face but I lost that fight and it had never been a problem before. After the face bit I got really scared of him..that could've been my eye! The bird sitter recommended a cool down period. So I haven't picked him up for a month now. I've only been petting him while he's on his perch. This was ok before but now it's gotten worse as now he doesn't even want me to touch him anymore. He would let me pet him and his head would be down and his feather fluffed and then all of a sudden he would turn around and try to bite me. This is getting worse and worse as the time it takes for him to decide to bite is getting shorter and shorter.

I bought 3 parrot behavior books I'm getting very confused. I'm getting pretty good at reading signs he's about to bite but he was just enjoying a petting with his eyes half closed! What's wrong with him!?!? The local bird store lady said I've lost him, I'll never get him back he's determined that he's my boss and senses my fear. I've read all about positive reinforcements. If I have a treat in my hand he would let me pet him for a few seconds to get the treat but he's totally distracted by the treat avoids my hand to get to the treat. I don't yell when he bites however I did pull my hand away. It's hard not to when you're about to get your finger bitten off! I really don't know what to do. Sometimes at night I watch him he looks sad I think he wants interaction. He puts 1 foot up asking to step him but I've learned that's a trick he bites immediately after stepping up.

He's making me really sad I don't want to give him up but it doesn't look like things are improving at all I'm afraid it's actually the opposite I miss my baby

 

[MikeyTN]

You must NEVER act afraid of them, they catch on very quickly!!!! I only trust certain one of my birds on my shoulders. IF they have even the slightest nipping problem, they're never allowed on my shoulders. Only my small birds, Lory, and ekkies are allowed on my shoulder. I don't allow my macaw or too on my shoulders ever. You must protest yourself first and that's not allowing them on your shoulders! Get back to square one and start over again. When he's trying to bite, just tell him no biting. Walk away and ignore him, no eye contact. Then try again later. It will just take some time, don't just give up. This could happen with any bird you get! My macaw is going through his hormonal stage right now, he gets ignored! I made the mistake not catching on what he was doing that day and I got bit pretty good just a few week ago. I'm waiting for the hormonal stage to be over with to interact with him again, cause right now is a no way. It's never been this bad until this year when he turned 10. He's more into one of the dogs over the rest of us. Inorder to get mine out of the cage right now is using my dog Rocco as the bait cause Willie LOVES Rocco!!! He will attack the other two dogs right now....Once he's out of the cage, easier for me to pick him up and easier for me to keep in control. While in his cage, it's his territory. So that's another thing, move into a neutral territory to work with him. Good Luck!

 

[lene1949]

As Mikey said... Start over... Treat him like at bird you've just got, and do not yet trust...

Maybe you can start by training him to target... Look up birdclick, which is about clicker training... It's got a wealth of information.

Good luck with him..

 

[henpecked]

Don't give up yet, yes you will need to start over. Try this, when he allows pets , only pet for a few seconds and quit. When petting now he feels in charge, and bites to let you know he's had enough. If you stop after only a few seconds and leave him wanting more he'll slowly come around. Same deal with stepping up, when he does quickly put him back where he was. Try to avoid bites and leave him wanting more of your attention. It's possible that you "flooded" him with too much attention and he learned to bite to say i've had enough, that and you need to take back control of the situation.

 

[oled]

A perrot dont know what hate is, good for you lol. Just sit comfort near the cage an talk, and when he is coming near you and ask for yoy companium the you can trye UP. In a week I think he is back in town. Good luck

 

[KBEquine]

Could it be that when he bit you, you reacted - pulled back, screamed or something? He may not be mad, he may be enjoying biting you for the reaction. I'm not a behaviorist, so I can't really help - but my Pionus went through a phase like that & it was rough (but it is also over).

Best of luck.

 

[ftlaudmom]

This is a sad, sad post. I know the feeling. I went through that with my first amazon and it was heartbreaking as we were so close. My problem was different though - I got married and became a mommy to humans instead of to him and he never quite forgave me for that. Thanks to HP and other very experienced members on this forum I've been winning over my new rehomed OWA and he's coming along nicely. I have no advice as I'm by far probably one of the least experienced on here but I do share your pain. I do however know one thing for sure from being a zon owner for the past 25 years and that is that zons are super smart and extremely complex creatures and we have to really get inside those little heads to try and figure out whats going on with them from their perspective or else we lose and they win - well actually in these situations they lose too - our attention - but they just don't get that part, only we do.

Hopefully, with the help from these folks you can start over and get him back. I've been using target and clicker training on my new guy and he's not only caught on really fast but I use that as the motivation for him to stop whatever negative behaviour he might be having at the moment to get him back on track so he can earn his treats. That seems to be working for both myself and my daughter and neither one of us has been bit once since the first week that he came to live with us. Since birds are so intelligent they seem to catch on to this type of training really quickly (sadly I never knew about this with my first YNA before he passed so we never really got back on track). That's my two cents so take it for what its worth and good luck.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[henpecked]

Like ftlaudmom and lene1949 suggested, clicker training would be a great way to get things back on track.

 

[awdee]

thanks all, I know I'm doing things all wrong but I really don't know what to do anymore as it seems to be getting worse and worse. I know I'm not supposed to fear him, but I can't help it No I did not scream when he bit me, I tried to lift his upper beak up and eventually he did let go. It REALLY hurt and drew a lot of blood and took a long time for me to heal. Yes I know I should never have let him on my shoulder, but I lost that battle before he's a stubborn stubborn bird even if I lift my arm up he would actually climb DOWN to my shoulder! Before he was very sweet I could snuggle up with him against my face so I let him sit on my shoulder as that seems to be his most favorite place to be. Now I am afraid to even let him on my arm as it's very obvious I will get bit.

He doesn't seem to like to be petted anymore I don't know why? This became progressively worse. A few weeks ago I would pet him while he's on the perch and he would have his head down and his feathers all fluffed up and eyes closed. After quite a while he would turn around and bite. Then in the last few weeks the time became shorter and shorter. Now I can't pet him for >10 secs or so before he will turn around to bite. yes I did pull my hand away...am I supposed to LET him bite me!?!? I'm not sure if I could do that I don't scream, I tell him a firm "NO" and then turn around to ignore him like I read in the books. But that didn't seem to do anything! So now I'm trying to pet him for a very short duration like you said and then BEFORE he bites I will tell him "good boy" and give him a treat. This doesn't seem to do much though.

Yes I am willing to start over, but this is way worse than the start. He NEVER bit me that hard before! He warmed up to me right away when I took him home he was up on my arm the very next day and the day after he climbed onto my shoulder and gave me kisses. Once in a while he would give me a nip but that always had a reason. I had discovered that he hates towels and bottles, if I'm close to one he would bite me. Ok I can deal with that. But now it's for no reason at all!! Ok, no reason that I could see. He just doesn't seem to want me to touch him anymore. Once in a while, he'll get bored and sing for attention but most of the time, he ignores me. Before he would greet me by saying "here" or if I'm home late he would say "what about ME!?" when I come home and show that he's all excited and climb over anxiously to come out. Now I come home he turns around and moons me and climbs to the back to get furthest away from me

Ok maybe parrots are incapable of hating but he sure doesn't love me anymore. I can see it in his eyes the way he looks at me, it's VERY different now. I've lost my baby I'm not giving up but he's making me cry when I see the way he looks at me. I miss cuddling with him

 

[awdee]

I have a clicker, I didn't use it because I read that you could use other ways to do the same. I've been saying "good boy" to him in an exaggerated way. My prob is that positive reinforcements requires him to be doing something RIGHT. I'm not asking him to do ANYTHING right now other than to NOT bite. So what am I supposed to do, give him snacks all day long when he doesn't bite!? Ok I do..now I go over to him, I would pet him for like 2 secs BEFORE he even has a chance to think about biting, then I would say "good boy" and give him a treat. Haven't been able to progress beyond that though guess we'll have to be stuck at this stage for a while? I'm hoping to slowly increase the petting time before biting happens.

 

[henpecked]

The Winter time/early spring is their breeding season here in the states. I think you might have a case of the "harmones" right now. Many male amazons become aggressive during the breeding season. This should start to change in a few weeks if this is the case, maybe you'll get your pet back soon. I just responded to a post from Oled titled "worried" maybe it will help explain some of the things that are going on with your pet. That post is in this same Amazon section. good luck and let us know how it goes.

Here's the post you made in the other thread Henpecked. Maybe it will help as well:

"Hey Oled,generally speaking ,yes that statement is true.However,having a well socialized bird (like you do) will minimize some of the aggressiveness when in breeding season. Pet birds also seem to out grow this as they get older and their breeding season doesn't last as long, and they haven't successfully breed. Some back ground in why this occurs.When in the wild amazons are in a "loose" flock that is made up of many bonded pairs,single birds and immatures. During the breeding season the pairs that can find suitable nesting cavities break away from the flock to raise their babies, these "suitable nest cavities" are usually few and several pairs of amazons will compete for the best sites.The pairs that "win" the nest site are usually the older ,stronger pairs with a good male to fend off rival pairs. These prime nest sites produce more babies than poorer quality sites so the genes for aggressive males is passed along. Captive breed birds are slowly changing this because they don't have to compete but the genes are still there. Hopefully we are breeding less aggressive birds than the wild caught pets of years ago when names like the "hot three" came about."
__________________

 

[prtmom]

I am definitely NOT an expert - I can only share my experience. Patience was the key with mine. I got him 4 years ago. He loved his owner, but hated me. It took me 2 1/2 years before I could even touch him. I chatted with other Amazon owners. I would go sit outside his cage and talk with him frequently but for short intervals. Also offered food. After 2 1/2 years I could open the cage door without him trying to attack. I also started using a dowel rod to take him out of the cage just for a moment or two, then right back in. Then he would come out 3 minutes, then longer. Maybe, like others said, just start all over, like you're a new owner getting to know your bird.

 

[NatWatson]

Ok maybe parrots are incapable of hating but he sure doesn't love me anymore. I can see it in his eyes the way he looks at me, it's VERY different now. I've lost my baby I'm not giving up but he's making me cry when I see the way he looks at me. I miss cuddling with him

If it helps (and not that I'm comparing), right at the very beginning of Yoshi and I, I lost my temper with him biting me and being aggressive and loud. I can't remember what happened exactly now and I have punished myself since, but I lost it and grabbed him by the tail, terrifying him so much that he dropped all his tail feathers to get away from me. He refused to allow me close for about 12 months, and like you said never looked at me the same or interacted with me the same during that period.

After a lot of work on my behalf though, and mostly patience we share a strong bond- a very strong bond. He still bites me and acts like a jerk, but I have learned to respect his hormones when ever his body language suggests they are rampaging. Its all about understanding. They are still wild animals no matter how 'handraised' we think they are. We need to respect and give them space when the tell tale signs present themselves.

Maybe check out this link: What's Wrong With Amazons - Amazons - Joannie Doss & http://www.parrothouse.com/jdoss1.html

I have found it extremely useful during my research into behaviour etc.

 

[Pedro]

I know this is a bit of a long shot but his behavior maybe because he is unwell. He could have a stress related Bac infection or picked something up from the sitters.
Might be worth a Vet visit.

I bird sit for many bird owners & have never had a bird react towards their owner when they go home.

 

[MikeyTN]

What Pedro is saying can be a factor!

But for me in my household it is the hormones right now....And I can't wait til it's over. My macaw been aggressive during this season but I don't ever remember him being this aggressive. I placed him on his stand last night and he got ahold of my finger and bruised me this time, I was lucky I got my finger out of his mouth quick enough before he does further damage. Then he was fine after he was out for an hour and he asked me to pick him up so he can go eat and drink back in his house. Then the aggression started again....So he's been staying in his cage a lot more now because he's being super aggressive except to Rocco, he loves that dog for some reason.....lol.....

 

[henpecked]

Yeah, several of my pet hen YNs are driving me crazy, it's like the only thing on their minds.

 

[MikeyTN]

Tell me about it! I can't take my birds out without one lifting up her tail, I told the girls, it ain't happening. Then the boys either humping my back or my hands so they get put away....So yes mine are driving me NUTS as well!!!! Plus I've got a baby begging to be fed 24/7, every time I walk by she's whining so she gets fed twice a day even though once is enough, trying to make her stop whining. It's like maternal instinct kicks in when I hear that sound..lol...Thank goodness my dogs and cats are spayed and neutered!!!! I think I would be ready to yank my hair out if everyone is being hormonal all at the same time...lol....IF I wasn't working so much I would tolerate it better, right now doing 70+ hours a week at work is killing me....

 

[Tammy]

I agree with the other members about the hormones, but maybe you're working too much on petting in lieu of other types of interaction. Mr. Precious does not like petting at all, ever, under any circumstances. He will request a head scratch and then it's on his terms, for however long he wants it. When he's done he will unfluff & keep his head up.

I think you should focus on activities and together time that don't have to include you petting or holding him. I will put mine on a perch or the back of a kitchen stool and we dance or watch tv together. He also likes to walk around the counter top when I do dishes. There's all kinds of chores you can do & let him watch/be with you without you being close enough to get bitten.

Good luck & keep us posted.

 

[henpecked]

Hang in there, things will get better.I think he's harmonal . Don't push him.Make sure you quit before he tells you , "that's enough". Leave him wanting more of your attention.The biting is something caused by the hormones in his system. It won't last forever.You two can work though this.

 

[MikeyTN]

Yea I know, it's just that it's never been this bad before...I think he reached his full mature age at 10 years old since he turned 10 back in May 20.