Safety concerns

PippTheBananaBirb

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I have a question. I don't really know what to name the thread.

I want to start a business one day where I sell bird products. I already have some of the toy parts. Here is where I need some advice.

These toys have been in contact with my birds in some way, through their feathers, being in the same room, me touching them then touching the toy parts, etc. I am concerned that if I sell them, they may have germs on them that I am unaware that my birds have. My parents aren't convinced that it's not safe to sell them and risk other birds getting ill, because they don't think the risk exists.

Is there any way to disinfect them? Or not? Am I overthinking this?

Another question-
I don't have a set place to store them. I don't want to store them in my bird room for many reasons, and the room I was storing them in, I wasn't allowed to use anymore. Kinda confused right now. The only other area I can store them in is the garage. Is this safe, as long as I regularly clean the area of any dust? Or will the exhaust gasses from the cars be unsafe? If you are able to offer any advice, I would appreciate it.
 

Cottonoid

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Pipp this is SO thoughtful of you to be thinking this through ahead of time!

For anything that isn't porous (like paper) you can disinfect with F10. Do you have any plastic storage bins? I would think it would work to keep the supplies and products inside a bin in the garage.
 
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PippTheBananaBirb

PippTheBananaBirb

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I am only using plastic bins since they are most convenient.

A lot of my toy parts are porous, if not all. Does wood count as porous?
 

SailBoat

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Yes, wood counts as porous. Attempting to create /assemble the product in a clean area is just helpful as near all buyers are interested in what they are buying is clean and unused. F10 as provided above is a good product and especially when a bright Sunny Day is used to dry the product, which may lend itself to creating those items outside on a sunny day.

Also, as commented upon above, bin storage is a great idea and has good merit. But getting the product into its final packaging than storing that in the plastic bins would be even better as that would provide a double barrier.

It is always a good idea to check what requirements are in place for selling product as what Business documents are required is good to know before one opens a business as there are many differences between Countries and Regions within a Country.
 

LeeC

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For anything that isn't porous (like paper) you can disinfect with F10.
Typically, anything strong enough to disinfect is toxic itself--thus, it necessitates cleaning its residue off of whatever was cleaned with it. The product packaging often contains these very warnings and instructions.

[Edit]
Consider that parrots would touch their tongues to "toys" cleaned with a disinfectant, which is probably not its intended use. You would not "wash dishes" with it, for example.

Here is a link to the Material Safety Data Sheet


1664459466524.png
 
Last edited:

LeeC

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I suggest that you look into ultraviolet-C (or, UVC) sanitization. UVC lamps are often called "germicidal" lamps. They leave no residue. They are probably dangerous to the user if safety instructions are not followed.
 

Cottonoid

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The product you show is NOT F10 disinfectant. It is a detergent made by the same company, which is NOT safe and not labeled as safe for use on surfaces animals will touch/taste without thorough rinsing.

You could in fact wash dishes with this product though, properly rinsed, as it would provide the surfactant needed ;)

I admit I'm new to parrots; I've only had Cotton since spring and lived with a cockatiel for a number of years. But I have worked in veterinary and wildlife care for a few decades now.

Of course, any chemical can be toxic depending on the dose. But in my opinion after reading the MSDS as well as reviewing articles on VIN, F10 diluted appropriately is my preferred choice over other disinfectant methods that I assume to be local to or easily accessible by pipp.

We do have a light based robot at my current workplace for disinfecting airborne particles, but for any pathogen that is not airborne we use liquid disinfectants.
 

Terry57

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Pipp, when I was making toys and selling them, I had all my toy parts on a different floor than the birds are on. As soon as parts came in I put them in plastic bags and then in a plastic tote. I did the same as soon as I finished making a toy, right into a bag, sealed it and put it in the tote.
It's good to mark on the outside of the tote what is in it, otherwise it's so frustrating trying to find things. I just taped a piece of paper with a list to the tote so I could change it later.
I let everyone buying from me know that there were birds in my house, but I never had anyone worry about it once i explained the situation.
I don't see a reason why the garage wouldn't be okay to store them. I would think that the plastic bags sealed tight and the totes would keep the smell out from exhaust, but it may be good to use one part of each kind as a test.

As for cleaning, Denise explained it better than I could have, and I agree with her.

Good on you for worrying about this and asking first, people will respect that you did.
 

LeeC

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Timneh: Grady;
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Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I have never been a germaphobe—and, I am very wary of cleaning products. Read the product label, and look up its safety sheet, before deciding on using it. Even "all-natural" products can be dangerous. As @Cottonoid said, it's all about the dose.

I volunteer at my local parrot rescue, and I bring home foster parrots. I asked my avian vet about quarantining. She said, it is so hard to do correctly that it is typically a wasted effort to try. She said, unless I am willing to shower and put on all clean clothing between all interactions with "new" parrots and my parrots, I am potentially cross-contaminating. Then, the main diseases I could transfer, my parrots may already have, with no symptoms, as they all came from the rescue.

I also commend you, @PippTheBananaBirb for wanting to take precautions. Even if you find a safe, effective liquid/spray, I would find UVC easier to be thorough with. I think the process @Terry57 described sounds fine.
 

LeeC

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Timneh: Grady;
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Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
The product you show is NOT F10 disinfectant. It is a detergent made by the same company, which is NOT safe and not labeled as safe for use on surfaces animals will touch/taste without thorough rinsing.

You could in fact wash dishes with this product though, properly rinsed, as it would provide the surfactant needed ;)
I apologize for the mixup, and I appreciate the clarification, @Cottonoid . I will look into their product line further, as I am intrigued by the potential.
 
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PippTheBananaBirb

PippTheBananaBirb

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Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I have never been a germaphobe—and, I am very wary of cleaning products. Read the product label, and look up its safety sheet, before deciding on using it. Even "all-natural" products can be dangerous. As @Cottonoid said, it's all about the dose.

I volunteer at my local parrot rescue, and I bring home foster parrots. I asked my avian vet about quarantining. She said, it is so hard to do correctly that it is typically a wasted effort to try. She said, unless I am willing to shower and put on all clean clothing between all interactions with "new" parrots and my parrots, I am potentially cross-contaminating. Then, the main diseases I could transfer, my parrots may already have, with no symptoms, as they all came from the rescue.

I also commend you, @PippTheBananaBirb for wanting to take precautions. Even if you find a safe, effective liquid/spray, I would find UVC easier to be thorough with. I think the process @Terry57 described sounds fine.
I'm not sure where to find a UVC light. I'd probably use a liquid to disinfect with.
 

LeeC

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Timneh: Grady;
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Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
One more note, even when you find a product you like, you have to stay current on reformulations. I have experienced this with several products. It is up to the consumer to keep checking a product for proper application and safety, with each new "dose" we buy. :]
 

LeeC

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Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
I'm not sure where to find a UVC light. I'd probably use a liquid to disinfect with.
If I were embarking on your journey, I'd be as inclined to divulge what the toys were cleaned with as I would the fact that I have parrots. As a consumer, I'd like to know what a product I bought was sprayed with. I actually wash anything and everything (newly bought) that I can for my parrots, as I fear "products" far more than germs, even for them.

I use castile soap and/or citrus-based cleaner to remove the residual cleaners or "chemicals" that are possibly present on new items.
 

LeeC

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Senegal: Ivy
Just remember, @PippTheBananaBirb: If it were easy, everybody would be doing it themselves. 😁
 

ravvlet

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Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I have never been a germaphobe—and, I am very wary of cleaning products. Read the product label, and look up its safety sheet, before deciding on using it. Even "all-natural" products can be dangerous. As @Cottonoid said, it's all about the dose.

I volunteer at my local parrot rescue, and I bring home foster parrots. I asked my avian vet about quarantining. She said, it is so hard to do correctly that it is typically a wasted effort to try. She said, unless I am willing to shower and put on all clean clothing between all interactions with "new" parrots and my parrots, I am potentially cross-contaminating. Then, the main diseases I could transfer, my parrots may already have, with no symptoms, as they all came from the rescue.

I also commend you, @PippTheBananaBirb for wanting to take precautions. Even if you find a safe, effective liquid/spray, I would find UVC easier to be thorough with. I think the process @Terry57 described sounds fine.

I also use F10 SC and I can say based on the color alone that’s not the same product. That company makes a lot different disinfectants. F10 SC was highly lauded by my vet, who has been a board certified avian veterinarian for 19 years & specialized in avian sciences. It is also used by many rescues. We use it for our somewhat immunocompromised parrot’s perches, playstand and toys, in the manner Sailboat has already mentioned (washing, rinsing, drying in the sun).

Additionally I am shocked that your vet would recommend not trying to quarantine? I have also worked at rescues - for dogs and cats no less, who I find to be a lot more saliva-y - and I kept a pair of “shelter shoes”, changed clothes in an easily sanitized room and washed everything and showered after a volunteer shift. We quarantined our birds when we first got them, as recommended by our vet. I also do the same routine when bird-sitting for friends whose parrots have not seen the vet as frequently as mine.

Frankly speaking, advocating against quarantine is irresponsible, bordering on dangerous. That is an excellent way to end up with a house full of birds with psittacosis.
 

LeeC

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Timneh: Grady;
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Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
I also use F10 SC and I can say based on the color alone that’s not the same product. That company makes a lot different disinfectants. F10 SC was highly lauded by my vet, who has been a board certified avian veterinarian for 19 years & specialized in avian sciences. It is also used by many rescues. We use it for our somewhat immunocompromised parrot’s perches, playstand and toys, in the manner Sailboat has already mentioned (washing, rinsing, drying in the sun).

Additionally I am shocked that your vet would recommend not trying to quarantine? I have also worked at rescues - for dogs and cats no less, who I find to be a lot more saliva-y - and I kept a pair of “shelter shoes”, changed clothes in an easily sanitized room and washed everything and showered after a volunteer shift. We quarantined our birds when we first got them, as recommended by our vet. I also do the same routine when bird-sitting for friends whose parrots have not seen the vet as frequently as mine.

Frankly speaking, advocating against quarantine is irresponsible, bordering on dangerous. That is an excellent way to end up with a house full of birds with psittacosis.
I appreciate your concern, @ravvlet . I think it is just as dangerous and irresponsible to let someone think they are taking an effective precautionary measure that is not actually effective. My avian vet told me how to do it correctly, and was in essence saying, if not done correctly, you're not getting the actual benefit.
 

ravvlet

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I appreciate your concern, @ravvlet . I think it is just as dangerous and irresponsible to let someone think they are taking an effective precautionary measure that is not actually effective. My avian vet told me how to do it correctly, and was in essence saying, if not done correctly, you're not getting the actual benefit.

Understood. I think changing clothes/not interacting with your own birds when working on toys for other birds would generally a good practice anyway, as so many toy materials are not washable (like cardboard or tissue).

However, a lot of parrot shops sell their stuff in the same room they keep their birds, so YMMV.
 

HeatherG

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I have baked wooden toys, perches, pinecones, and old wooden toy parts in the oven. Baking below 250 F generally keeps wood from scorching.

That’s how I treat perches and parts harvested from outside or found or gifted to me, used. Soaking in a mild bleach solution is great for plastic and metal.
 

ravvlet

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I have baked wooden toys, perched, pinecones, and old toy parts in the oven. Baking below 250 F generally keeps wood from scorching.

That’s how I treat perches and parts harvested from outside or found or gifted to me, used. Soaking in a mild bleach solution is great for plastic and metal.

Baking is clever, I always forget that option. Thanks for bringing it up! I can also add I’ve run wooden perches and toys (that aren’t dyed, food safe dye leeches and fades badly and tbh I don’t know if it’s worth using) through the dishwasher without soap!
 

SailBoat

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Positions /statements made by an Avian Medical Professionals can be easily miss communicated as simple sentence structure and/or word usage can confuse or shift the professionals original statement. We have worked with commonly older Amazons, which come to us commonly sick. As a result, we have held to only having a single Amazon at any given point as quarantining can be demanding and if the protocols are not followed one's effort can fail. But when Parrots from different sources are being brought into one's home, serious efforts are required for everyones safety.

I have always requested that our Avian Vet(s), over the years, write down all instructions whether for medications all the way to quarantine requirements. I am continuously shocked by the number of individuals that do not request a written medical visit report and especially when specific medication or care is required.
 

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