Sample for DNA testing-- clip nail or pluck feather?

[Karlys]

Hello,

Which is less traumatic for everyone involved for DNA testing-- clipping the nail so that it bleeds a little or pulling some feathers from the chest?

I wish you could just use molted feathers.

 

[ChristaNL]

Let your CAVet draw some blood plze (needle in vein, no/controlled bleeding afterwards) - nails are sensitive, don't cut them to the quick.


Bloodsamples are more reliable than feathers (so I have been told).

 

[riddick07]

Clipping the nail is best for the test.

 

[MonicaMc]

If your bird needs to see a vet and they're taking blood for bloodwork, it's sometimes possible to ask for just a little blood (only need 1-3 drops) for the DNA test.

 

[ChristaNL]

We can just buy the test as "just DNA" or "complete package" or anything in between.


https://gendika.com/information-about-genetic-research-in-birds/?lang=en


and this is how much it will set you back:
https://gendika.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Pricelist-2018-Website.pdf


(you can buy online and sent it back by mail, the biggest issue is getting the blood out of the bird...)



The most expensive part of the procedure is my vet who will double the pices set on this site and also handling and (for the macaw) aneasthesia because she wants to go home with all her fingers ( I do not blame her for that )

The greys will just hold still and are small enough to be safely restrained if they dont.


Since they (the lab.) both test feathers and blood I asked which was best - and it all depends on the person handling the material. Testing one bird is okay, but people sometimes send in a complete aviary - plucking breatfeathers, not washing hands in beween, not going bird-enveloppe-bird-enveloppe etc., then results get muddy... so they prefer blood.


I've never heard of nailclipping on purpose to make a bird bleed ( it is obviously very painfull for them) but you can always burn/melt them shut afterwards of course.
Maybe it is a small-bird-thing? (fistsize and under) I can imagene finding a vein in a small one might be more difficult and far less safe for the bird.
(Never had issues with my canaries and smaller birds, not sure if I could do it today.)



(there is a lab in Spain that willl DNA-est / but not diseases/ for far less, I 've read 7,50 Euro -> they test feathers and pretty solid results. Never used them myself, DNA always comes as an extra for me, I am not a breeder and more interested in overall health. )

 

[riddick07]

These guys are an option. I had assumed you already found a site but this is the one we use for testing. I’ve helped clip nails for this testing probably over a 100 times. You just cut it a little too short, smear blood on the card, use some kwik stop on the nail and send the sample in. I’m sure it hurts initially but they’ve never favored the foot or showed any lingering pain. I’ve seen birds come back bruised, flushed, and stressed out for a blood draw at a vet. For a simple minor testing like this I wouldn’t put them threw any risks of being put under or the stress of the whole vet needle ordeal if kept awake. I would only put them through it to get full blood panels done, not the DNA.
Animal Genetics | Genetic Testing Services

 

[ChristaNL]

Riddick- makes totall sense.


(it always helps if someone knows what they are doing -
maybe that is why feathertesting has become so populair? Every fumble fingered person can extract a few feathers safely, not everyone can clip a nail just right. )


It always helps to have a good vet around
ugh bruising, trauma etc. the horror!
That would send me back to D.I.Y.!
(I guess I got really lucky with mine, one of them is a genious @ drawing blood painless, the only reason we had to restrain the grey was because he kept turning his head to see what other fun stuf was going on behind him ... not very helpfull.)

 

[Anansi]

...I've never heard of nailclipping on purpose to make a bird bleed ( it is obviously very painfull for them) but you can always burn/melt them shut afterwards of course...

No. No, you can't. Corn starch to stop the bleeding. Please don't attempt to cauterize the wound.

Personally, I would just wait until the next full veterinary appointment and request a few extra drops of blood. At that point the bird would be getting a blood draw anyway, so there's no extra trauma.

 

[EllenD]

First of all, blood testing is not at all more "accurate" than feather testing, that's a myth...DNA is DNA, and this is exactly the reason you send a few feathers that have to be freshly plucked, so that there is DNA material on the ends of the feathers, and so they have more than one feather to test...Again, DNA from blood is exactly the same as DNA from feathers/skin...no different than DNA testing a human's pulled-hair that has the root or skin material on it's end, that is no more accurate than a DNA test using their blood...DNA is DNA.

And as far as which is better for the bird, it simply depends on your situation...If your bird is going to your CAV to have routine blood work done anyway, just add a DNA test to the blood work. Otherwise, the toenail clipping is quick and in my own opinion, less stressful for the bird...However, if you're doing this yourself, usually plucking a couple of chest feathers isn't horrible for them either...it just depends on your situation...

Just don't think that one method is more accurate or better than the other, as it's totally untrue...And I don't believe in putting the bird through an actual blood draw simply for a DNA test, if they're not already having a blood draw from their neck done anyway, especially when you can simply clip a toenail in a split second, plop a dab of Quik-Stop on it, and you're done...

 

[Scott]

Modern anesthesia gasses Isoflurane and Sevoflurane are far safer than older methods, but still have risk. Personally I would never permit anesthesia for any reason other than significant diagnostic procedures.

That said, an angry macaw is capable of inflicting significant damage. I'd first have a conversation with the vet to understand the need for anesthesia for cosmetic or sexing procedure.

 

[ChristaNL]

Cornstarch does not do anything against a really good bleed from something CAG-sized (I found out the hard way, just like how painfull the bird finds it if you clip the nail to the bleeding part /just nailfiling for me now! ).

I had a hell of a time finding quickstop.
That I had no idea what is was called did not help either
(Only could get it online - from Belgium!- as an added substance to cottonwool -really not something I want around birds. Stupid EU and its stupid rules again? The vets have it, but are not allowed to sell it or even let it out of the practice...and as a non-vet you can't get any.)

That is why I stumbled on 'old timers'- advice to sort of melt the nail shut (using a hot spoon / some people actually had a soldering iron lying around for that purpose...).
Never did it myself - sounded too scary, but apperently is still being done in case of emergency.

-
to my defense:

I only had my macaw under aneasthesia because she needed a super-thourough check-up (with an extra assesment for the busted up wings as wel as drawing blood for the every scary-disease-in-the-book tests, DNA was a bonus) - so would not do it for fun .
... but she needs to got back for more testing in a few months and since she is touchy as hell with her painfull wings (which hyperreact to being constrained with a towel as well -> extra partytricks anyone?) I don't seem to have any other options (save a miracle of course)

-
You are absolutely correct:

DNA is DNA indeed, but every testresult is only as good as the material sent in!
And not every sample is as uncontaminated as it should be...
(that is the *only* reason why the lab preferred bloodsamples over feathers)


Anyway- I think we all agree that for a firsttimer or someone who has no acces to a vet or experienced bird-person featherpulling is a safer way to get DNA for testing than deep-clipping a nail.
(OP's question in the first place)

 

[DiscoDuck]

If you are not skilled or already dont know which is better, then pay an avian vet.

My opinion.

I am skilled and educated. Regardless, I paid an Avian expert Vet to verify what I was was already told what he was DNA tested for. Which.. guess what! he is male and a bird. LOL

WHat are DNA tests supposed to tell us anyhow?