Sun Conure Seizure Problem

[Conure10]

Our 31-year old Sun Conure Elvis has been having a problem the last month. It suddenly loses control of its right leg, leading to to to grab it and often try to fly off, resulting in it crashing to the ground if I can't grab it in time. It then stares at its leg for a minute or two and recovers use within 5 minutes. This has been happening every few days.

We took it to the vet office in Tucson two days ago that treated it several years ago when it fell to the ground and sprained its leg (prompting us to let its flight feathers grow out, which has helped). Unfortunately the experience avian vet there had moved on, and it was seen by two young vets. They were unable to take blood, which had been done on the earlier visit, saying air sacs were in the way. They prescribed and gave use two week of metacam meloxicam, in case it is arthritic, but the way it comes on suddenly indicates to us its something neurological.

So two questions: any suggestions on what this might be, and does anyone know a good avian vet in Tucson? Thanks for any help.

 

[EllenD]

It's hard to say what it is, I'm not fully understanding what he's actually doing...So his leg suddenly straightens out while he's flying? I'm sorry, I just didn't understand what you meant...How long has he been doing this?

It does sound like something neurological, which can be caused by any number of things, such as an infection (bacterial or fungal), an avian Viral Disease, or it could be a growth/mass pushing on a nerve, or if he's at all overweight/obese it could be sternal-lift of his Keel Bone, which often causes impingement of their Sciatic Nerve, I mean, it could be anything at this point...And other signs/symptoms recently of illness or pain? Any lethargy, sleeping more than usual, loss of appetite, being fluffed-up all the time or on the bottom of his cage, vomiting, etc.? Is he overweight/obese? Since you've had him his entire life, what has his regular, daily diet been? A lot of the time, if they have been on an all-seed diet for that many years and they end-up with Fatty Liver Disease, their enlarged Liver will actually cause either the sternal-lift or "organ-shifting", which often causes impingement of the Sciatic Nerve too, but if he's not limping or favoring a leg, and it comes and goes, then it does sound Neurologic, which again could be an infection or viral disease...

He definitely needs to have a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist for this one, no "Exotics" Vets, you need someone who is very familiar with Avian Viral Diseases and diagnostics in birds. He should have routine Blood-Work along with some tests for specific Avian Viruses and anything else that the CAV wants to run, along with a complete Fecal Culture, Fecal microscopy/Gram-Stain (they can do this in the office, while they will send-out the culture to a lab), and I'd also really want a regular X-Ray to rule-out any masses/growths, sternal-lift and/or organ-shifting, free-fluid or free-air in his belly, etc...And they should be able to get blood from one of his 2 Jugular-Veins in his neck within a few seconds with no issues at all, no sedation or anesthesia, nothing...Where were they trying to take blood from, his belly? That's scary...A CAV or Avian Specialist will know exactly what to do and how to take blood from his neck quickly and without an issue (that is scary, "his airsacs were in the way"??? Oh my. Run away, don't walk, run!)...

I don't know of any CAV's in Tucson, but there is a search-tool on the forum here that is very good for locating only Avian Specialists...I'll see if I can find the link...They always do this during holidays and weekends, don't they?

 

[Laurasea]

Sorry to hear your guy is having problems. Also glad to hear he has reached a great age, you hear life spans but not often an actual person that had them reach that age. So we'll done. I agree with Ellen I'm not understanding exactly vwgats going on. Are you saying he has a history of just falling? Or a history bof seizures? Or an old leg injury that leads to falls?

 

[Conure10]

Thank you both for your prompt replies. Elvis cannot fly, having had his flight feathers cut for some 25 years he lost the strength to do it, even now that he has full feathers. When these incidents occur it will occasionally try to fly and end up on the floor, 2' down. If we're lucky and see it starting we try to grab it, despite the biting, and hold it until it recovers.

Elvis eats a seed mixture and almost all human food, as it eats with us. And gets lots of water. Years ago we learned the hard way, on him and us, to not feed him strawberries. His weight has been 103 grams for the longest time, although in recent months its dropped to 99. So weight is not an issue.

Other than these incidents, he's behaving just like he always has.

The leg having his problem may be the same leg that got sprained 5 years ago, we're not exactly sure. What is happening, when we see it, is that he stops using the leg, thus leaning on his right side, and staring at it, and grooming the feathers. After about 2-3 minutes he's back to normal. Even during the incident he can grip slightly with his foot, and has a normal grip otherwise.

I've got one video, not too good, of one of these events and will see about posting it on my YouTube channel. Here's a picture of how it behaves at the end - staring at its leg for a minute, sometimes with his head completely turned over.

Thanks again for the advice! We bought Elvis 30 years ago when he was 1 year old, and he's traveled 50,000 miles with us on RV and vacation trips.

 

[IndySE]

My sympathies to you -- last winter I also had an incident with my conure over seizures, and it's pretty scary not to know what's going on with them. I hope you can find an avian certified vet, but a lot of times seizures can be caused by nutrtional defficiencies. The reason I suspect it is his diet -- "seeds and some human foods" probably isn't meeting his needs, unless the human feeds are very healthy vegetables like sweet potato, beets, kale, brown rice, etc. Especially at 31 years of age, a lifetime of a diet like that could build up into a vitamin deficiency that causes seizures.

Generally, it is recommended you feed birds pellets. Harrisons and Roudybush are good brands to try, though he might be stubborn if he's gone this much of his life without eating them. Kale, sweet potatoes (the orange ones), beets, and blueberries are all really good superfoods to try and get him to eat if he prefers "human foods". Also see if you can get a cuttlebone and scrape a little into his food & take him out into more sunshine -- vitamin D deficiency can cause seizures, and leastways a little extra calcium and sunshine can't do him any harm.

Wishing you the best and hope you find a good avian vet that can take a baseline of his blood work. Poor little guy </3

 

[Conure10]

IndySE, thank you for your food ideas. He has been eating 3D Cockatiel mixture for many years (which contain some pellets, which he occasionally eats), plus raw peanuts, along with nibbles of human food, mainly bread, apples, cooked white potato (he ignores the sweet potatoes!), a little beef and cereal. I found those pellets you recommended on Amazon and will get them.

We will also start taking him outside more often for a sit in the sun. Any recommendation on how long they need in direct sunshine? Is a grow-light inside used by anyone?

 

[Jen5200]

It’s always scary when something happens and we don’t know what the issue is - I would definitely try to get him in to someone knowledgeable. https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803 This is a link to the avian vet website, which you should be able to search for one near you. Look forward to hearing more about your guy.

 

[Laurasea]

Ok , that kind if looks like a head tilt, and that is a neurological problem, could be an infection in inner ear or sinus, or something else, would need a work up by vet. The head tilt can cause loss of balance leading to falls.....I hope you can offer leafy greens , squash, cooked sweet potato is good, never ever never feed raw white potato, and penuts can house fungal toxins, I don't feed those. I hope you are to have a vet hospital you and keep us posted

 

[Conure10]

Thanks Jen for the vet link. It has one in Tucson, looks very qualified, and we just got recommendations from a local parrot rescue person and the Tucson Wildlife Rescue center who get a lot of wild birds, so I think we will be getting a much better diagnosis and treatment from one of these. Will post the results.

 

[IndySE]

In regards to if "grow lights" are used with parrots, yes some people do use them. But imo, they're more trouble than they're worth if they provide much benefit at all. There's some amount of controversy whether or not they provide enough benefit vs the potential to cause eye damage/burns if they're not placed the proper distance away or used too long a day. It's much easier and cheaper just to set the cage outside on sunny days for a little bit.

I'm not sure the minimum time recommended for placing him outside. 15-30 minutes in direct sunlight a day would probably be good. Just bear in mind to actually set his cage in direct sunlight since window glass filters out most of the "good stuff" from the sun (I believe it's UVB that helps them produce vitamin D) and to watch for overheating if it's a particularly sunny day.

I hope that's helpful. Best of luck ! Also try hanging fresh kale from the cage. My conure loves it (or at least destroying it) and it has so much good stuff in it. Please keep everyone updated with vet results, and in the meantime I hope this is helpful advice for while you wait.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Here's another vet link (in addition to the one above...

https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/

Good luck!

 

[Laurasea]

I'm going to repeat this is a head tilt. Head tilts are almost always to the same side, head tilts cause balance problems, head tilts are neurological, or an infection or problem with inner ear, or sinus, or tumor, ect. I believe this is a head tilt not a staring at foot. Google head tilt. I hope you can find good vet for help and he has many more years with you.

 

[Conure10]

Luarasea, thank you for the information on the head tilt. Just to be clear, the tilting is only seen after it has the leg event, where the leg goes limp and stops supporting his body for a minute. Then it does the odd head tilt, which I assumed was only it just staring at its leg. We have found a good vet and Elvis will be seeing her ASAP. Thanks for the advice!

 

[EllenD]

Could be "head tilt", could be him looking at his leg, could be part of a seizure, could be a nerve/muscle issue that happens when this happens...You can't tell. This could be anything, but his life-long diet of seeds, peanuts, and people-food is very telling, and I'm guessing that regardless of what the cause is, he's very likely got Fatty Liver Disease, especially combined with not flying his entire life. So with Fatty Liver Disease/Enlarged Liver, they often have several different issues going on, some due to the actual Liver Disease and Liver Function, and then again with the physical size of the liver displacing the Keel-Bone and other organs, which often causes an impingement of their Sciatic Nerve...I actually just saw an Amazon with that exact problem, 20+ years old, on a seed/nut/people food diet his entire life, and the x-rays showed a huge liver...And this bird had started either limping or sticking his leg out straight, and you could tell from the x-rays that the bird had sternal-lift due to the liver size, and that the Sciatic Nerve was involved...At his age, being on that diet his entire life with no flying/exercise, my guess is going to be Fatty Liver Disease and complications thereof...But again, it could totally be neurological, orthopedic, a mass/growth, etc. Need an x-ray and blood-work to know anything...

I'm glad you've found some Avian Vets, make sure you demand that they do both an x-ray and blood-work if they aren't suggested or offered, and honestly in this situation if the Vet doesn't suggest both an x-ray and blood-work, especially at his age and with his diet history, then I'd find a different Vet...But any CAV or Avian Specialist will absolutely know what to order...I hope...

 

[Conure10]

Thank you EllenD for that information. We will definitely be insisting on an x-ray and blood work with the new vet.

 

[EllenD]

Thank you EllenD for that information. We will definitely be insisting on an x-ray and blood work with the new vet.

Good luck, and keep us posted. Hopefully the remedy is something as simple as a daily dose of Milk Thistle, some Metacam, and a change in his daily diet, and nothing more invasive. Keep us posted!

 

[Laurasea]

Yes, we want your baby better!!!!

 

[Conure10]

Update on Elvis. Took him to an excellent avian vet today, Dr. Julie Yeager of the Sonoran Veterinary Center in Tucson. She examined him, said he had excellent leg motion for a 31-year old conure. Good heartbeat and breathing. Thin at 97 grams but not unusual for an old bird. Has cataracts, but not an issue. She took a blood test but we declined the x-ray at this time due to the risk of death.

We will be continuing the meloxicam for possible arthritis, and are adding isoxsuprine to improve leg blood flow, which she thought might be the cause of his problem. We will be changing his diet, adding red palm fruit oil and other non-seed items like beans, pasta (which he loves), bananas, pellets, etc.

When the blood test results are in I will post the results and diagnosis, and will continue to hope that the x-ray can be skipped. Thanks again to all for the advice and support.

 

[IndySE]

Best of luck getting him to take to his new diet. Birds are so stubborn. Even Kermit, who I've introduced veggies to since she was a wee bab, still insists I taste-test anything new to ensure it isn't poison.... they're so stubborn.

Pro-tip on beans-- if you can find them, try getting mung beans for him. They don't require pre-soaked to cook and are generally considered easier for digestion

 

[EllenD]

Something that I've been trying to tell people with "seed-addict" birds to do, since it is so difficult to get some of them to transition onto pellets, is to simply improve the brand/type of seed-mix you're feeding them. This is something that you can do on the spot, and that is a big enough deal that it will change his health around immediately. And they typically have no issue changing seed-mixes.

With captive/pet birds, the issue with them eating mostly seed is that they aren't flying miles and miles all day long like a wild bird is. However, they are still "designed" to eat seeds, grains, legumes, etc., especially their GI Tracts. So the key is to eliminate the largest sources of fat, sugar, carbs, oils, etc. in their seed-mixes. So instead of trying to make a dramatic change right away from seed-mix to pellets, first change their seed-mix to one that contains NO Sunflower Seeds of any kind, NO Peanuts/Nuts of any kind,
and NO Dried Corn Kernels/Cracked Corn of any kind, as these are the 3 largest sources of empty calories and fat that goes straight to their livers. There are several widely-sold, commercial seed-mixes that are available at any Petco store that are extremely healthy, low-fat, nutrient-dense, and that you don't have to worry about them eating as their regular, daily "staple" diet, and that they should have no issue at all eating right away. They contain healthier, lower-fat seeds, fresh grains, fresh legumes, dried herbs, veggies, and a little fruit. The two of these that I've fed my birds/currently feed them (my birds all get a small portion of healthy seed-mix every day right along with their daily staple of pellets) and that are very highly rated are Higgins Vita Seed "California Blend" and Tropimix. They are both extremely similar to each other in that neither contains any sunflower seeds, nuts of any kind, or dried corn products, and are both full of very healthy grains and seeds (such as Flax Seed, Chia Seed, Hemp Seed, different types of Quinoa, and then a variety of grass seeds, millet, buckwheat, etc.), along with tons of different veggies, herbs, and fruit. Another seed-mix that contains no sunflower seeds, no dried corn, and no nuts, and is full of healthy seeds, grains, legumes, and then some dried herbs, but lacks the veggies and fruit (so it looks like more of a traditional seed-mix) is Higgins Safflower Gold No Sunflower...It's another one that I would highly recommend if your bird doesn't like either of the other two, but that's rare and I've not had any of my guys reject either.

****Something that I'll point-out about the Tropimix seed-mix that gives it an advantage nutritionally, financially, and also makes it much, much more convenient that people don't realize about it is that the Tropimix seed-mix ALSO contains Tropican pellets!!! I switched from Zupreem Natural and started feeding Tropican pellets a little over a year ago on the advice of my CAV. Zupreem pellets in-general are not the best, not the worst either, not by a long-shot, but they contain a lot of "fillers" like cornmeal, soy meal, etc. And my CAV started feeding his own Macaw Tropican pellets a few months prior to him speaking to me about them, on the advice of some of his colleagues who work as Veterinarians/Professors at The University of Pennsylvania Veterinary Medical School; they have started recommending Tropican pellets/Tropimix seed-mix to clients who's birds are refusing to transition onto other high-quality, natural pellets such as Tops or Harrison's...And my guys all LOVED the Tropican pellets straight away, I had no issues at all with all 4 of them eating all of their pellets right away, which they wouldn't even do with the Zupreem Fruit pellets that are full of added sugar...So we made the switch to the Tropican pellets, which are a bit cheaper than the Zupreem as well, so that was nice too...

At the time I switched them onto the Tropican pellets I was feeding them each 1/4 cup of Higgins California Blend seed-mix every day as well, which they loved and I had no complaints about at all; ironically the Higgins California Blend is extremely close in recipe to the Tropimix, they look almost the same too, which is a big deal to a lot of birds. So I just stayed with the Higgins California Blend seed-mix and switched to the Tropican pellets...Then at an appointment for my Cockatiel with my CAV (she had broken a blood-feather and I had to yank it out with pliers, it was awful), my CAV asked me if I was "only buying the Tropimix seed-mix now", and commented on how awesome it is that you only have to buy an all-in-one food and not worry about buying both pellets and a seed-mix anymore...I had no idea what the hell he was talking about, lol! I was like "No, I'm still feeding the Higgins California Blend seed-mix, but I did switch to the Tropican pellets and they love them, but since the Tropimix and the Higgins seed-mixes are basically the same thing, I just stayed with the Higgins"...Then he apologized for not filling me in on the fact that the Tropimix seed-mix also contains plenty of the Tropican pellets (each cup of Tropimix seed-mix contains about 1/4 cup of Tropican pellets, so it has a lot of the pellets in it). So now I ONLY buy Tropimix seed-mix, and instead of feeding them a 1/4 cup of seed-mix and in a separate bowl giving them 1/4 cup of the Tropican pellets, I just give them each 1/2 cup of Tropimix seed-mix and they get both their pellets and seed-mix in one bowl. And they usually finish their entire bowls every day! (I feed them their pellet/seed-mix in the morning so they have it throughout the day, and then at dinner time they get their fresh veggies/greens, usually in a "chop" mix, and they eat it with me while I'm eating my dinner). And the Tropican pellets are naturally sweetened with fruit juice, which is still sugar, but it contains half the sugar of any of the "Fruit" flavored pellets, such as Zupreem Fruit. So I'm fine with that...and the love them, so I'm thrilled to death. I only have to buy one type of food for them now, and the Tropimix seed-mix is pretty affordable, both in the Petco store and even better online...I order mine from Chewy.com (no matter what seed-mix/pellets you choose, Chewy.com is typically the cheapest place hands-down)...The only thing is that I have 4 birds of different sizes, so I have to order 3 different "sizes" of Tropimix, but if you only have one bird then it would be amazingly easy and cheap. They sell the smaller 4 pound bags of Tropimix in the Petco stores for $9.99 and they are $6.99 on Chewy.com with free-shipping, but Chewy.com also sells a 20 or 25 pound bag of Tropimix for around $35-$40, depending on what size you buy, so that lasts forever if you put it in bags or containers and keep it in the freezer.

Something to think about...Again, simply switching his seed-mix to one that is totally free of any sunflower seeds, nuts of any kind, and dried corn of any kind will make all the difference in the world, and is something that you can do immediately...Then after he's on a healthier, low-fat seed-mix, you can start transitioning him over to a natural pellet staple gradually, at his pace.