The tribulations of Mr.Wink

MrWink

Member
Jul 27, 2022
10
58
Rochester Hills Michigan
Parrots
Mr.Wink, 40 yr old white fronted amazon
Mr.Wink is my 40yr old white fronted amazon that, last week, developed symptoms of lethargy and some slight unsteadiness in navigating his cage. His appetite is fine, his droppings look normal but less frequent. He had a full exam at the vet last Friday. Unfortunately, the vet is out with Covid and it's difficult to get direct answers to questions. Results of the exam (which included x-rays) were as follows: Possible atherosclerosis with blood tests revealing a slightly elevated WBC. Mr.Wink also exhibited what I believe the vet referred to as a small vent prolapse. It was pointed out to me during the exam and looked like a small protrusion of red tissue from the vent, a bit smaller than the size of a pencil eraser tip. If memory serves, she (the vet) may have manipulated it back into place. She warned me to be on the lookout for any mating-like behavior, which I understand can aggravate or even cause a prolapse. Well, I only recently (2 months ago) developed a strong bond with Mr.Wink, so that could well be causative. From reading a few medical articles on vent prolapse and overbonding, I've since minimized my contact to avoid any petting or cuddling, and also learned that some of his prior responses were most likely mating-like behaviour.

As a result of the vet visit, 3 meds were prescribed. Isoxsuprine (vasodilator), an anti-inflammatory, and an antibiotic. I can understand the rationale behind the meds. I have some concern about starting 3 meds concurrently, let alone what difficulty I'm going to face administering them. I've watched a few videos on the medication procedures and I'm getting him familiar with a syringe. Meds are on order and I'll probably start the regime within the next few days.

Some background on Mr.Wink. He recently lost his roomate of 38yrs. Scooter, my 40yr old African Grey passed suddenly about 3 months ago. I was devastated. They both spent most of their time together, in an upstairs 'bird' bedroom, with an open cage policy. While there was never any physical relationship between the birds, I knew there was a sense of companionship. They'd often comically compete for attention. Mr.Wink was the polar opposite of Scooter. Never very social (quite a biter actually) and only occasionally would allow for handling of any sort. Since Scooter's passing, I promised Mr.Wink that he wouldn't spend any days alone with Scooter's empty cage as company. During the day, Mr.Wink now occupies an open cage off the kitchen dining area, near an open screened doorwall. No gas cooking or any cleaning solutions are used in his presence. I'm now retired so Mr.Wink has been exposed to me, as a companion, on a regular basis. Honestly, I never expected the positive reaction that occurred. Within a month, Mr.Wink bonded like never before, and enjoyed being handled, petted, cudled, and was happily interacting, outside of his cage, with some new toys during frequent playtimes. He was even learning some tricks and beginning to accept an Aviator harness, which I hoped would allow him to enjoy some cagefree outside jaunts. Now all of that is on hold and I find the bond that I so cherished may be part of the problem. I so want to give him a hug and a cuddle while he's feeling low but won't because it appears to be to his detriment. From a PetMD article I read on prolapses: "Owners are advised to break the close bond for the good health of the bird and not stroke the bird on the back, feed it by hand, or cuddle the bird close to the body". Is there anything left as far as contact that I could still maintain? This is a tough one for me.

Any insight would be appreciated.
 

ravvlet

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2019
2,349
7,081
Seattle WA
Parrots
Kirby - OWA, 33yrs old (2019-)
Broccoli - Dusky Conure - 3?mo old (July 2023 -)
~~~
(Rehomed) Sammy - YNA, 45 yrs old (2022-2023)
(RIP) Cricket - Cockatiel (2019-2022)
As a general rule, petting a bird on the head above the “shoulder” area is fine and not considered “sexual contact” by the bird. You can still pet him! Just nothing on the wings or vent.

For medication, I happen to have an Amazon of similar age with similar problems (lethargy, atherosclerosis, and reoccurring sinus issues). He has to take enalapril every day and also gets sinus drops at night. He has been on heart meds and antibiotics simultaneously and was fine.

There are a few different ways to medicate him. If he’s treat motivated and enjoys birdy biscuits, you can put the medicine on a small piece of biscuit and let him eat it. This way there’s not any tussling or wrestling on your part that might aggravate his condition. We do this with our Amazon’s heart and joint supplement. The biscuit needs to be pretty absorbent but stiff enough so that it holds its shape and doesn’t fall apart so he eats all of it.

The next way is a bit more aggressive but less so than using a towel. Let the bird sit in your lap and offer him a toy or something he’s likely to bite into, and slide the syringe into the side of his beak when he’s so engaged. SLOWLY depress the syringe - depending on the amount it’s likely you’ll have to do it a couple times. If you’re lucky and he likes the flavor, he may decide to just take it right out of the syringe!

The final method I know of is of course to towel him. I hate doing this, but there are some days where Kirby won’t take his meds or days where it’s time to clean his nares (never do that without a vet teaching you how to do so safely please!) and so we have to use the dreaded towel. I find the most painless way to get him into a towel is to gently place him into our bathtub and then drape the towel over him while he’s down there. He sometimes lets out a soft annoyed squawk but otherwise will let me pick him up and wrap him, and I always let him up as soon as we are done and tell him he’s a good boy/give him pets and treats.

We always do our meds in a specific room (downstairs bathroom) at around the same time every day so that we have an established routine. Even for things they hate, knowing it’s coming and what to expect really helps them go along with it. Bribery does wonders too; so if your bird has a favorite treat giving it to them afterwards can heal a lot of offense, lol.

I hope that’s helpful
 

SailBoat

Supporting Member
Jul 10, 2015
17,646
10,008
Western, Michigan
Parrots
DYH Amazon
Never been a believer in cuddling /hugging an Amazon, nor stroking their lower back /bottom as those areas are clearly seen as sexual interaction. Shifting to the head and neck should not cause any loss in your relationship.

Providing medication is something that your Vet should always show you with detail how to administer the medication. Along with the medication, you should have also received a guide as to when and for how long each medication is to be provided.

As so very well stated above, providing the medication should be established with a schedule in place as the Parrot quickly begins to understand that this is a normal part of the day-to-day activities. Every household has they own tricks /process that they find works.

The most important part is the praise that comes with the completion. It goes a very long way to maintaining a Bonded Relationship.

Cheers!
 

HeatherG

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2020
3,893
6,966
I agree. Scratches or scritches on the head and neck should be fine to do.

I think this is just part of having an older bird. All tissues are not as elastic. Maybe kind of like Granddad having hemorrhoids.

Now I am imagining an amazon parrot with dentures, or wearing bib overalls and a John Deere cap. 🫢
 
OP
MrWink

MrWink

Member
Jul 27, 2022
10
58
Rochester Hills Michigan
Parrots
Mr.Wink, 40 yr old white fronted amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #7
Thanks very much to all for the valuable feedback ! As far as the bonding goes, it was never an issue with my Grey. You could do anything with that bird with no ill effects. I had done a fair amount of research before bonding with Mr.Wink. It was only after the fact that I started reading about possible issues with overbonding and began backing off.. Can't say I ever heard about a physical manifestation like a prolapse as being a danger until I did specific research on prolapses.. Now I know and hopefully reading this thread will help with awareness for others.

On a positive note, there has been no visual evidence of the prolapse recurring, so it may have been caught early enough to be reversible.

Got the first med (Isoxsuprine) in the mail today. The dosage is an incredibly small 0.02 ml, which hardly registers on the extremely small syringe. When the syringe is pressed, it barely results in a small single drop. That doesn't seem right. I'll be at the vet tomorrow, to obtain the other 2 meds. I'll see what they have to say. Mr.wink really enjoys small pieces of fruit and consumes them entirely. I'll suggest adding the med to a piece of fruit or at least see if there's a preferred way to dilute.

Again, I appreciate the responses and suggestions. Long live Mr.Wink
 

ravvlet

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2019
2,349
7,081
Seattle WA
Parrots
Kirby - OWA, 33yrs old (2019-)
Broccoli - Dusky Conure - 3?mo old (July 2023 -)
~~~
(Rehomed) Sammy - YNA, 45 yrs old (2022-2023)
(RIP) Cricket - Cockatiel (2019-2022)
Long live Mr. Wink indeed! Kirby weighs 475g and his enalapril I believe is .2ml. From what I’m seeing online white fronts are smaller Amazons, so it’s likely the dose is correct. The amount of meds Kirby takes could fit on my fingertip; it’s only a couple drops. It doesn’t take much for birds; their metabolism is very different from ours.
 

GaleriaGila

Well-known member
Parrot of the Month 🏆
May 14, 2016
15,045
8,742
Cleveland area
Parrots
The Rickeybird, 38-year-old Patagonian Conure
I don't have much substantive advice, but lots of empathy. My 38-year-old Patagonian Conure has begun having issues over the last couple of years... currently on Enalapril for high hematocrit. He was once on trial with the Isox, and it was a tiny dose. The Rb has weighed 240-ish grams for 35+ years. I mix meds with a small bit of orange juice, which the bird happily licks dry. We're blessed with a world-class vet , so I am grateful to have complete trust.
I got this bird in college and am now many years into retirement, so losing him is something I can hardly contemplate.
Anywayyyyyyyyyyyy, this place is great, and I'm glad you found us.
 
OP
MrWink

MrWink

Member
Jul 27, 2022
10
58
Rochester Hills Michigan
Parrots
Mr.Wink, 40 yr old white fronted amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #12
As far as empathy, it rates high on my list. Sharing a common problem somehow seems to lighten the load a bit. My best to The Rb. I liked the orange juice idea and I'll check to see if the meds are compatible. This forum does look like a great place to land.

As far as Old Birds. If you're lucky enough to have a bird for 40yrs, you've shared a lot of life. Can be a bit of a double edged sword. The longer the life, the stronger the bond, the more difficult to let go. You simply can't dwell on it.

It's Mr.Wink's big evening. He'll be getting all 3 meds for the first time. Not looking forward to it. The isox is a small once a day dose. I'll be trying that on his favorite piece of fruit and see if he goes for it. The other 2 are twice daily, and I'll be trying syringes for those. Sigh...
 

HeatherG

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2020
3,893
6,966
As far as empathy, it rates high on my list. Sharing a common problem somehow seems to lighten the load a bit. My best to The Rb. I liked the orange juice idea and I'll check to see if the meds are compatible. This forum does look like a great place to land.

As far as Old Birds. If you're lucky enough to have a bird for 40yrs, you've shared a lot of life. Can be a bit of a double edged sword. The longer the life, the stronger the bond, the more difficult to let go. You simply can't dwell on it.

It's Mr.Wink's big evening. He'll be getting all 3 meds for the first time. Not looking forward to it. The isox is a small once a day dose. I'll be trying that on his favorite piece of fruit and see if he goes for it. The other 2 are twice daily, and I'll be trying syringes for those. Sigh...
Could you try the smoothie or drink mix idea?
Metacam or meloxicam tastes sweet so that doesn’t need anything added. But some of these meds are bitter.
 
OP
MrWink

MrWink

Member
Jul 27, 2022
10
58
Rochester Hills Michigan
Parrots
Mr.Wink, 40 yr old white fronted amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #15
It is with deep sadness that I report the passing of my beloved companion of 38yrs, Mr.Wink. The events that preceded his demise were consistent with atherosclerosis. He passed peacefully, in my arms, 4am Monday morning, Aug 1, 2022.
 

ravvlet

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2019
2,349
7,081
Seattle WA
Parrots
Kirby - OWA, 33yrs old (2019-)
Broccoli - Dusky Conure - 3?mo old (July 2023 -)
~~~
(Rehomed) Sammy - YNA, 45 yrs old (2022-2023)
(RIP) Cricket - Cockatiel (2019-2022)
Oh no. I can say with certainty this isn’t the update any of us hoped for. I am so, so, so sorry for your loss. We are here for you if you need space to mourn with like-minded folks; most of us have experienced this and know how much it hurts to loose a feathered friend.

My thoughts are with you; fly free Mr. Wink.
 

HeatherG

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2020
3,893
6,966
I am sorry to hear this.

My very old Quaker passed at nearly 25 years of age after a rough early life. I felt like my heart was going to die but I also knew she’d really slowed down in the last year and wasn’t talking, playing, being rude, etc.

Both these instances remind me of my grandma passing at 87 and terribly sick and thin. I was very very sad but I was and am glad she’s at peace and not suffering any more.

But to have known a bird for 20 or 25 or 40 years—that bird is your friend and a huge part of your life. I am so sorry for your loss.

Maybe you could have a service or ceremony for him? Without a doubt, a presence has gone from the earth. 🥲
 

bonitabird59

Well-known member
Apr 12, 2022
189
455
Mr.Wink is my 40yr old white fronted amazon that, last week, developed symptoms of lethargy and some slight unsteadiness in navigating his cage. His appetite is fine, his droppings look normal but less frequent. He had a full exam at the vet last Friday. Unfortunately, the vet is out with Covid and it's difficult to get direct answers to questions. Results of the exam (which included x-rays) were as follows: Possible atherosclerosis with blood tests revealing a slightly elevated WBC. Mr.Wink also exhibited what I believe the vet referred to as a small vent prolapse. It was pointed out to me during the exam and looked like a small protrusion of red tissue from the vent, a bit smaller than the size of a pencil eraser tip. If memory serves, she (the vet) may have manipulated it back into place. She warned me to be on the lookout for any mating-like behavior, which I understand can aggravate or even cause a prolapse. Well, I only recently (2 months ago) developed a strong bond with Mr.Wink, so that could well be causative. From reading a few medical articles on vent prolapse and overbonding, I've since minimized my contact to avoid any petting or cuddling, and also learned that some of his prior responses were most likely mating-like behaviour.

As a result of the vet visit, 3 meds were prescribed. Isoxsuprine (vasodilator), an anti-inflammatory, and an antibiotic. I can understand the rationale behind the meds. I have some concern about starting 3 meds concurrently, let alone what difficulty I'm going to face administering them. I've watched a few videos on the medication procedures and I'm getting him familiar with a syringe. Meds are on order and I'll probably start the regime within the next few days.

Some background on Mr.Wink. He recently lost his roomate of 38yrs. Scooter, my 40yr old African Grey passed suddenly about 3 months ago. I was devastated. They both spent most of their time together, in an upstairs 'bird' bedroom, with an open cage policy. While there was never any physical relationship between the birds, I knew there was a sense of companionship. They'd often comically compete for attention. Mr.Wink was the polar opposite of Scooter. Never very social (quite a biter actually) and only occasionally would allow for handling of any sort. Since Scooter's passing, I promised Mr.Wink that he wouldn't spend any days alone with Scooter's empty cage as company. During the day, Mr.Wink now occupies an open cage off the kitchen dining area, near an open screened doorwall. No gas cooking or any cleaning solutions are used in his presence. I'm now retired so Mr.Wink has been exposed to me, as a companion, on a regular basis. Honestly, I never expected the positive reaction that occurred. Within a month, Mr.Wink bonded like never before, and enjoyed being handled, petted, cudled, and was happily interacting, outside of his cage, with some new toys during frequent playtimes. He was even learning some tricks and beginning to accept an Aviator harness, which I hoped would allow him to enjoy some cagefree outside jaunts. Now all of that is on hold and I find the bond that I so cherished may be part of the problem. I so want to give him a hug and a cuddle while he's feeling low but won't because it appears to be to his detriment. From a PetMD article I read on prolapses: "Owners are advised to break the close bond for the good health of the bird and not stroke the bird on the back, feed it by hand, or cuddle the bird close to the body". Is there anything left as far as contact that I could still maintain? This is a tough one for me.

Any insight would be appreciated.
My amazon Bonita was diagnosed with arthritis around age 50 and was displaying similar behavior. My vet suggested a smaller cage that was easier to navigate. As for the anorexic poops, the mobility may be the issue. Sometimes walking to a food/water dish is a bit tough on their feet. Have one perch, with food and water at either side. Very easy for them to get to.
What do his feet look like? It could be bumblefoot if you are using uniform perches. Wishing Mr. Wink a speedy recovery!
 

bonitabird59

Well-known member
Apr 12, 2022
189
455
Oh god. I just read your final update. I am so so so so so so sorry for your loss. Mr. Wink sounds like an amazing buddy to have around and he won the birdy lottery getting you as an owner.. Losing a bird is incredibly tough. Let yourself grieve, you did the best for him and I'm sure he was happy to have you there as comfort during his final moments. If you need to talk to anyone, I am totally here for you. I hope you feel better :(
 

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