This parrot hates me

[Aecman]

My wife and I recently (2 months ago) adopted a 15 year old blue faced amazon with a complicated history.. he has had 2 previous owners 1st owner was a male preacher who spent a lot of time with Trouble (parrots name) you can tell because he sings hallelujah and prays. This owner apparently got sick and passed away before he died he gave Trouble to a woman who tried to do right with him but her husband was not nice and now Trouble has a definite fear of men. Knowing that ahead of time we agreed to adopt Trouble with the hope that through positive reinforcement lots of patience and a loving environment we could get past that........... This has not been the case Trouble came in and immediately bonded with my wife (as expected) but he is definitely afraid of me and I can accept that. The problem is when he is out and with my wife he makes a real effort to injur me he flys for my head biting and clawing which usually ends up with me bleeding and him getting knocked to the ground which is not helping either of us have a relationship of any kind other than we are now afraid of each other.. He is very smart and I know that this doesn’t have to be everyday life please help me find a way to live in peace with Trouble

 

[TiredOldMan]

Welcome, come on in!

I suggest reading the I Love Amazons tread in the Amazon forum. It is near the top highlighted in blue. This is a great place to start.

 

[TiredOldMan]

The amazon experts will be along shortly.

 

[Billdore]

Good luck welcome to the forums. Hopefully cause he’s had a male in his life he loved he will be able to remember not all men are bad. Parrots are slow moving when it comes to trust. Maybe try reading some bible type stuff to him. Let him know your one of the good guys. I would say read to him while he’s in his house though. He’s testing you and your reactions also like you say he’s smart. If he gives you a bite and you give him a treat instead he might start rethinking why he’s flying to you. A quick duck usually causes my Timneh to miss and have to fly by my head. Sometimes when she’s suppose to be having a time out she flies right back to me. And with a well timed duck she is forced to fly right on by. Good luck don’t give up and don’t bring your emotions into it. If you feel angry or agitated avoid Trouble lol. Sometimes Timneh knows just how to push my buttons and just walking away for a couple of minutes is the best option. Some super knowledgeable people here especially with Amazons.

 

[Scott]

Welcome to the forums, hope we can give you some advice to help Trouble adapt to a home with a male!

The first two threads in the Amazon forum, as previously suggested, are an excellent start! You will find many other discussions of behavioral issues and approaches to solve.

Another thread of interest is how to bond and build trust. In your case, some of the techniques will work best when Trouble is in a cage vs able to attack you at will. http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/49144-tips-bonding-building-trust.html

 

[MonicaMc]

You mention positive reinforcement training.... have you done any target training with him?


Do you know Trouble's favorite treat? And have you tried offering Trouble his favorite treat each time you walk by his cage?

 

[SunnyJ]

Hi & welcome!
What you want can be done but it will take a lot more time.....and patience! Hang in there!

 

[wrench13]

My opinion.

A parrot that jflies and attacks needs the have wings clippied, at least for now.

Amazons are the come back kids, though with swatting him to the ground, you have a lot of come back to do. Read like 3x , aloud, to the guy , in a soft friendly voice, all of the stickies at the top of the Amazon subfourm. All of them. Take your time. 2 months is a blink with parrots. Do 1/2 hour a nite for 6 months, with lots of treats. Then come back. You and wife have a lot of reading to do, the learn more about parrots in general and amazons in particular.

All meant in the kindest way possible. Goodluck, friend.

 

[ChristaNL]

Maybe change his name ?

It is something that will "flavour" the way you look at him (and everyone else he meets later on).

Its some kind of weird psycology- but it works in subtle ways.

I changed my macaws name to "Sunny" because I wanted her to have a more sunny future and her previous name turned out to sound like something fun when you speak Dutch, but was actually insulting slang for a small male bodypart in differents parts of the world.
It is still not the best name ever, but it is "a working title".

Trouble sounds like a good name, when it belongs to a fun, goodnatured, mischievous parrot -- but not when it comes with a problempackage... if you feel what I mean?
(sort of a self-fullfilling prophecy - you expect trouble, you get troubles, but not in a fun way)

I have a huge spider (theraphosa stirmi) - and most people freak out about that UNTILL they hear his name is "Ukkie" (Dutch for a tiny toddler/ very small anything basicly) ... and they relax.
Just having a small (sort of ridiculous) friendly name changes everything...


so, maybe give your guy a friendly, relaxed, upbeat human contact-call (eh name)?

If you want to change his attitude, it helps if all people around him do the same if they realise it or not
(...a rose by any other name ... etc.etc. etc.)

 

[ChrisYNA]

I agree with wrench13 that 2 months is too short a time to bond. I'll say it may take you a year of being really, really, nice to the bird until you earn his trust. My YN Amazon also was and still is afraid of men for some reason. Probably something from her past (with her original owner). She likes almost all women she meets. She loves me now (I'm a guy), but it took a while to develop the level of trust we have. Plus, this is my first bird so I had no idea what I was doing and surely made some mistakes in the first year, like going nuts and screaming whenever she'd bite me. Or trying to throw her off, mostly out of fear, whenever she'd land on my back. She bit me so hard one time, I went to the ER for x-rays to see if my hand was broken because it was all swollen and I couldn't move it (black and blue across 2/3 of the hand). Mine actually likes to bite right on the ear and when she does, of course, the top beak goes right through and the bottom cuts, so you're bleeding like crazy.

But.......... none of that has happened in a long time and I now have an amazing relationship with her. I think she's in love with me because she likes to kiss me right on the lips and stick her tongue in my mouth. 10 minutes at a time. She preens my hair, I preen her feathers, etc. Trusts me enough to lay in my hand on her back and all that.

So yeah, my advice after 3 years of bird ownership, give it 6 months to a year and be nice. Avoid stressful situations, but if she bites you, don't yell, don't flip out, just take it like a man and assure him you're still his friend. Maybe feed him by hand, well, hold a dish for him. My bird used to think I was stealing her food when I only wanted to put more in her dishes and she'd rush in trying to bite my hand. Oh, birds are funny. She now gently takes stuff from my lips.

Take your time and don't make it worse by going crazy when he bites. You're only resetting any progress you may have made. Always watch his body language for aggravation... the eyes and the tail.

btw, if you're scared when near him, wrap a thick bath towel around your arm (from hand to above elbow). If he flies to you, cover up and make him land on your arm. I use the towel when we play wrestling so she can expend some energy by trying to fight it (she knows it's play time) or I put her on her back or I can run around with her or play elevator, etc.. I'll even use the towel when going to the park - it's good for her to grip onto.

 

[ChrisYNA]

wrench13 - It tells me I need to have 20 posts before being able to reply to a PM, so I'll do it here. It's good info for others anyway.:emoticonc

Hi, yes, I read about that [risk of human saliva harming a bird]. I assure you I do not swap saliva with her. It's not like we play tongue wars or anything LOL... it's more like, she tries to touch her tongue on mine and I try to hide my tongue deep in my mouth. She's persistent and it happens, but I'm mostly successful. All good.

 

[ChrisYNA]

I'm going to chime in some more here because this topic interests me and I know how frustrating and saddening it is to want to have a relationship with a bird that is aggressive for one reason or another.

I was playing with mine tonight and she started biting down my fingers/hands too hard... maybe to keep balance or because she was just playing hard... but what I learned to do is try to calm her down before she does damage, so I go shhhh shhhh Kuba no shhhh shhhh, and she actually listens and stops. She absolutely understands she can hurt me. But being a bird, she sometimes forgets or gets too emotional or whatever. Even when she bit me too hard on the forearm a few weeks back and left a black and blue for a week... I just rubbed that spot and let her know it hurt. Well, since then, she's been so careful that I see her going out of her way to not squeeze hard with her beak or even putting her beak on my arm if she doesn't have to (gets close with it, but stops and pulls away). I know she'll bite at times since, well, she's a bird, but I've come a million miles in the progress from where I was with her biting my ears. It takes time and it takes the human to make some behavioral changes, not just the bird.

 

[noodles123]

With parrots, everything takes WAY longer than anticipated. A month is like 10 minutes to them (or so it seems)...I would suggest that you try taking over some of the feeding/cleaning tasks so that he associates you with good things.

My bird (umbrella cockatoo) came to me as an adult and she hated me (loved my boyfriend). She bit me and wouldn't let me touch her for weeks (except on the very first day when she let me place her on her cage). After a few weeks, since she appeared to trust me enough to take food from my hand and stand near me (and based on her history etc), I started to wonder if it was a "dominance" issue, but I really think my assumption was risky so early in the relationship (pushing the envelope didn't help and thankfully, she loves me now).

Rather than forcing the issue with your bird, I would suggest patience and positive associations. In the event the he does show aggression, I would try to figure out the purpose (escape/avoidance/fear, to get something concrete, sensory or attention). Then, think about how you react (or how others may have reacted) when aggression was shown in the past. Do you put the bird back? Do you walk away? Does your wife take the bird? Do you chastise the bird? Do you make noise? Do you keep your distance for a period of time? Does the bird experience a change of activities/location?

All of these reactions (or lack thereof) could reinforce the behavior (depending on his purpose behind the biting etc). My degree is in special education with an emphasis on ABA and it seems to apply to parrots and humans alike. Another thought- where are most of the aggression issues taking place (on/in the birds cage? in a familiar area? when your wife is around?) If your wife is in the room when it is happening, you might try asking her to leave and see if that helps over time. If the bird is biting in areas where he feels overly comfortable/territorial, you might try moving him to more neutral ground (cage/familiarity out of sight). Again, these suggestions all hinge upon figuring out the behavioral pattern in order to determine the function of the behavior. Something is reinforcing this behavior, so if you can find out what that is, then you can manipulate the situation. Remember, reinforcement is anything that maintains or increases a behavior; not just things like treats.
Good luck and remember to be patient!

I don't know the bird's history though and that could play a huge part.

 

[noodles123]

Also- if taking the ABA (applied Behavior Analysis) route, be very careful to avoid intermittent reinforcement. Consistency will be key, so if you come up with a plan, DO NOT BREAK IT or you will just make the parrot think that if it behaves badly long enough, it will be reinforced via familiar means (whatever it learned to do in the past).

Finally, generally speaking, if you start an intervention (behavioral) then you can expect to see what is referred to as an extinction burst. This generally occurs as a last resort attempt to get reinforcement the old/inappropriate way after new and more acceptable behaviors have been taught. An extinction burst basically is a stretch of good behavior followed by burst of intense undesired behavior. It is often a sign that what you are doing is working, but you must be careful not to change your behavior or give into the burst...If you do, then the bird may revert back to its old ways and much of the new/positive training will be overshadowed.

 

[GaleriaGila]

noodles, you applied behavior analyst you, that's great input!

Lots of great input here.

My bird has similar antipathy towards my husband (whose ID here is Rival_of_the_Rickeybird!) and in the early days, we did have to clip his wings (The Rickeybird's, not the Rival's) in order to assert a safe routine.

Good for you, for being so patient. Try the advice out and see what works for you. Stick with us. We'll support you!

 

[EllenD]

Hi Aecman, I read your initial post and then read through the rest of this thread, and you've been given some great suggestions and advice regarding things to try in-order to better bond with your Amazon, and to settle his nerves and to help him feel more comfortable in his new home...You haven't responded back yet since your initial post, so I was just wondering how things are going with him?

I think the main thing that you need to realize and keep in the front of your mind right now is that it's only been about 2 months or so since you adopted your Amazon, and 2 months is not nearly long enough time for him to even settle-in to his new home, let along to get-over whatever past-trauma he has experienced. Amazons have the intelligence of a 4 year old human toddler, and as such, they have very good memories, as well as being very sensitive and emotional.

You're hitting the time period where you've had your new bird in your home for a couple of months, and you're starting to get frustrated with his behavior and his continued reluctance to be friendly and bond with you, so you're starting to get that very anxious, desperate kind of feeling, which is completely normal for a person in your situation. However, again, you just need to keep telling yourself that "2 months is not even near enough time for any huge changes to happen regarding his behavior"...Since you have to go at HIS pace, not your pace, any little, tiny positive improvements are to be celebrated and well-praised and rewarded...by you. So any time that he shows even the slightest gesture of kindness with you/towards you, any time he even just sits near you or even in the same room with you and your wife at the same time and he doesn't try to attack you needs to be greatly rewarded by you.

Also, try to keep in mind that you really don't know exactly what he's been through at any of his prior homes...In fact, you honestly don't really know how many different homes or people he's had in his life, because unfortunately when people re-home parrots, especially the larger parrots like Amazons, Macaws, Greys, Cockatoos, etc., they do tend to hold-back details and actually lie about how many homes they've had, what their behavior is really like, how much time they usually spend with the bird, etc. So what you need to remember is that this guy has absolutely no reason at all to trust you or your wife, as you're "just another home, and just another set of people that aren't going to be around for long"...That's sadly the way that birds like this tend to start thinking, and the more and more difficult it becomes for anyone to earn their trust. And earning their trust is always step #1. After you earn his trust, then you can better work on specific behaviors and training.

Right now he's decided that your wife is his person, and if what you said about his history with men is true, then he chose your wife simply because she's a woman, not for any other reason. If the man in his prior home did in-fact physically abuse him, then this is going to take a lot of time for him to get over...But it's going to be up to you to make a concerted effort to prove to him that not only are you not going to hurt him, but that you care for him and you want to be his friend. And the best way to do this is to gently and softly talk to him as much as you possibly can, whether he's sitting inside his cage and you're sitting beside it, or he's out of his cage and sitting with/on your wife, you need to try to constantly talk to him as nicely and gently as you possibly can, and try to make it you who gives him his treats, his food and water, etc. That will show him that you are providing for him and trying to help him rather than hurt him or neglect him. And since you have a man's voice, which he is probably very used to hearing yelling and screaming from, you need to always be sure to speak gently and very softly to him, as a loud man's voice may send him into either a rage/attack mode, or it may just scare him to death...

As far as him attacking you while your wife is in the same room, well, he's protecting her from you, as he see's you as a threat to his person right now. So it's not unusual for them to do this, especially if you go to touch your wife while in his presence...

***I'm going to take some flack for saying this to you, as it's a very controversial topic here in this community, but since it's now become not only a training/behavioral issue but also a safety issue with him flying at you/your face/head and literally attacking you, you may want to think about having his wings clipped (only by a professional who knows what they are doing, like a Certified Avian Vet, who by the way if you haven't taken him to for a "Wellness Exam" since you brought him home, you should do ASAP anyway)...Now a lot of people don't believe in clipping a bird's wings, some people actually get very upset at even the mention of doing it. However, only you know what your bird is like, what your home situation with your bird is like, and how much of a threat to your safety he is while he can fly. A lot of people, including myself, have found time and time again that if you have a bird who is having either behavioral issues, such as in your situation, or if they have adopted or purchased a bird that is not tame and cannot be handled or interacted with at all, sometimes clipping their wings temporarily is a very safe, efficient, and successful way to solve the issues very quickly.

If you have your bird's wings clipped, or you are considering it, you need to remember that it's completely and totally safe for your bird, it is painless, and most-importantly it's completely temporary. You should always tell the person who you have clip your bird's wings that you only want the outermost 3-4 Primary Flight-Feathers on each wing clipped only, no more! This way your bird will not be able to fly at you or attack you, but he will be able to safely glide to the floor and not drop like a stone. And this will also mean that they will grow-back fairly quickly, usually if only the outermost 3-4 Primaries are clipped, they regain the ability to fly in about 2 months at a maximum. However, it's extremely important that during the short amount of time that you have while your bird can't fly, that you take full-advantage and that you commit fully to working with him on a daily basis.

In your case, it would probably be best to try to work with your bird one-on-one, in a room alone (without your wife for sure), with the door shut, and that has carpeting so that you can work with him on the floor, or while he's sitting on a T-Stand. Your wife cannot be around while you're working with him, as she will be nothing but a total distraction to him, and your goal by working with him every single day is for you to earn his trust fully. With your wife in the room with the 2 of you, he's going to automatically think of you as a threat to her right from the start, and that will make it impossible for your training to even get started...And if you do clip his wings prior to starting this daily one-on-one training with him, it will make it much, much easier and much more fulfilling, as you won't be constantly chasing him around the room as he's flying away from you, nor will he be trying to attack you...Also, with their wings clipped they tend to have to rely upon you for more than they do if they can fly, so it presents a great situation for you to earn his trust, and for him to start to trust you, as you're the one who is helping him every day...And if you take full-advantage of the short month or two that you have before he can fly again and you fully commit to working with him alone every single day, one-on-one during this time period, the idea is that by the time he is again able to fly, it will no longer be a safety issue, and then you can start working with him while he's flighted, for example you can then much more easily and efficiently start Target-Training him, as he won't be constantly flying away from you or trying to attack/hurt you.

Again, there will be a lot of people that are going to disagree with me full-force about clipping his wings, and that's okay, it's a totally and completely personal choice between a bird and it's owner, and it's not anyone else's business, as they don't know the situation you're in with your bird...It's my opinion that when it gets to the point where you are actually being attacked/dive-bombed by your bird, especially a larger bird that is going for your face or head, then it has become a safety issue and this is when it become a necessary thing to at least try, as you're not only in-danger of being seriously injured (eyes), but it's nearly impossible to try to work with a bird on a daily basis when he just wants to attack you...And remember, it's completely painless and very temporary...And in my personal training experiences, especially with non-tame birds that become aggressive when you attempt to handle them or even come near them, clipping their outermost 3-4 Primaries on each wing has worked wonders almost every single time I have done it.

This is just meant to be something for you to think about and do your own research about, and then make your own decision about, based on what is best for you, your wife, and your bird. I simply feel that you should be presented with all the options and information from both sides of this discussion, from the point-of-view of someone who has had much success with this training technique...