Raz

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Feb 19, 2022
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Two Jendays conures!
This is a recap:
My male jenday attacks my mom for no reason. He’s flown from one room to another to attack her, dived from walls and tried to attack her eyes and hands. Additionally, he’s tried to bite my dads eyes. I thought it was because of me, so I experimented without me there, but kept a close eye. Today he attacked her 5 times. She’s covered in scratches and he’s drawn blood. Why does he do this? They don’t have a bond but she hasn’t done anything to make him hate her. She’s even given them treats.
Also
, he’s got a habit to just bite and nip for no reason , he does it to me too sometimes, but never had hurt me that bad. Will this escalate?


I’ve got two jenday conures a male and a Female. For some reason my male jenday keeps attacking her. She doesn’t even do anything, she could be sitting down and he’d come swooping down front the wall to attack her. Today he flew from the other room just to attack her. It’s true that they don’t have a bond, but she occasionally gives them a treat. Before it was because I was there, but now he’s attacked without me being there. ( Leaving for a split second, I’d never leave my birds unattended! ). She’s terrified that he will hurt her eyes, which he’s shown to do. ( he pounced directly on her eyes once, and ran to attack my dad’s eye as well. I love them a lot, and don’t wanna use the thaw as a punishment , so my only option it to shield her using my arm (today I had to use a book! )
 

HeatherG

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Apr 25, 2020
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He’s jealous of them or protecting you or the female bird.

If your mom and dad were also birds, when he flew at them, they’d fly away. He wouldn’t actually connect. But they’re big slow humans, so your conure is connecting.

You need to let him know that this is not ok and maybe put him in his cage for a time out if he’s aggressive to them. Clipping his wings would keep your parents safe, too, though wing clipping has its downsides.
 

Birb321

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Sep 14, 2022
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I might rescue a conure or another small parrot
Reasons why you bird may be attacking your mom and others
1. You bird my be very picky with people (your bird may just like you or they may like or dislike something specific about someone)
2. you could be hormonally stimulating your bird (like petting it on its back, using toys that can hormonally stimulate your bird) mean your bird will think that you are there mate.
3. You bird could of have a traumatic past which could be possible depending on the situation
4. Your bird may not be tame with other people, you’ve could of only tamed your bird with yourself.
I will put some videos down to help
I hope this helps
 
OP
Raz

Raz

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Two Jendays conures!
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He’s jealous of them or protecting you or the female bird.

If your mom and dad were also birds, when he flew at them, they’d fly away. He wouldn’t actually connect. But they’re big slow humans, so your conure is connecting.

You need to let him know that this is not ok and maybe put him in his cage for a time out if he’s aggressive to them. Clipping his wings would keep your parents safe, too, though wing clipping has its downsides.
Thank you so much! It’s obvious that a stern no won’t help, but I’ll put him on time out for a few. I would never clip my birds wings though.
 
OP
Raz

Raz

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Two Jendays conures!
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Reasons why you bird may be attacking your mom and others
1. You bird my be very picky with people (your bird may just like you or they may like or dislike something specific about someone)
2. you could be hormonally stimulating your bird (like petting it on its back, using toys that can hormonally stimulate your bird) mean your bird will think that you are there mate.
3. You bird could of have a traumatic past which could be possible depending on the situation
4. Your bird may not be tame with other people, you’ve could of only tamed your bird with yourself.
I will put some videos down to help
I hope this helps
Thank you so much! I’ll review the videos and see if it helps :)
 

wrench13

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Time outs have to be done correctly if they are going to be effective and not backfire on you. Putting him in his cage is not a good way - it teaches him that if he bites he gets to go back to his cage. Better, put him on a nearby chair back or neutral place and everyone turn thier backs to him for one minute. no peeking no talking about him. Of course this works much better if he cant just fly away , honestly, this level of aggression may warrant a light clip (temporary) until this lesson is learned. Not as a punishment, just as a way of controlling his agro. Letting it continue only re-enforces his actions. PLease dont: Yell at him, spray water at him, physically touch him, like tapping hard on the head. None of these will work and only ramp up the agro.
 

HeatherG

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Apr 25, 2020
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I thought about time outs on a chair back or perch but since the bird is flighted that wouldn’t work.

I would clip the bird’s wings if he’s attacking people’s faces. Seems to me this bird needs a serious check on his aggression.
 
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Raz

Raz

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Two Jendays conures!
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I thought about time outs on a chair back or perch but since the bird is flighted that wouldn’t work.

I would clip the bird’s wings if he’s attacking people’s faces. Seems to me this bird needs a serious check on his aggression.
It’s insane- I always have an eye on him and I’ve seen how he stares at he before he swoops down. It’s honestly scary. Sometimes I put him on the floor and step on the bed and give him a minute or two, then pick him up. I’m not sure how well that’s working on him.
 
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Raz

Raz

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Two Jendays conures!
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Time outs have to be done correctly if they are going to be effective and not backfire on you. Putting him in his cage is not a good way - it teaches him that if he bites he gets to go back to his cage. Better, put him on a nearby chair back or neutral place and everyone turn thier backs to him for one minute. no peeking no talking about him. Of course this works much better if he cant just fly away , honestly, this level of aggression may warrant a light clip (temporary) until this lesson is learned. Not as a punishment, just as a way of controlling his agro. Letting it continue only re-enforces his actions. PLease dont: Yell at him, spray water at him, physically touch him, like tapping hard on the head. None of these will work and only ramp up the agro.
I’m really scared to clip his wings… I wish he wasn’t so aggressive. I have a perfect spot to put him and I’ll try the back towards him plan. That’s super smart, since birds use a back turn to display emotions. I really hope he gets less agressive
 

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
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Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
Clipping wings can cause injury (indirectly), health problems, and new behavioral problems. It is not to be taken lightly, or used as an easy, quick-fix. That may seem like an easy thing to say when I'm not the one with the attack parrot. Well, ...

Just over a year ago, I adopted a Senegal who has a multi-home history of attacking "his human". He comes for my face, or head, every single time. He got my tragus once, early on, and nearly severed it off. He is a very good flier. It never occurred to me to clip his wings--not once.

I gave him an aviary in my house, by converting my open dining area. (So he could have some liberty; and, I could have some safety.) He has a Senegal buddy in there with him. (He is super-friendly to parrots.) They can see the rest of the goings on at all times, too, through the aviary mesh. I have to go in there countless times per day, to tend to them and the room. With the help of his previous keeper and two professional avian behavior specialists, Fletcher and I worked out a system that serves us well, but he still gets urges to come at me.

Before:
1664130771012.png


After:
1664130807961.png

(That photo was taken to show the lower-profile ceiling light, with different light-temperature bulbs.)

They key is to manage the parrot's opportunities. Letting the attempt happen is likely quite reinforcing, and there is little that can be done after to discourage it. The best applied-behavior research we have shows that there is about a 4-second window after a behavior where we can reinforce it or punish it. Under the very best circumstances, with a highly skilled trainer, you might, with some luck, get ten seconds. Can we really get a parrot back in the cage within 4 seconds after an attack? No. Therefore, doing so is not associated, in their mind, as a punishment for that attack. The connection is lost. Focus on prevention. Reading body language; keeping a really close eye; minimizing opportunity; etc. Ideally, consult with a behavior specialist for your particular circumstances.

[Edit] For those who are curious about our "system", I put on a special hat, to signal to Fletcher what is about to happen (and to protect my head and face a bit), and I enter with an 18"-long dowel, presenting it for him to step up. That is the moment of truth. LOL. I then move him to the big, stainless-steel cage, and transfer him to the perch mounted to the inside of the front door. He immediately gets head and neck rubs―for longer than ten seconds―through the bars (at first) or over top the door (now as we build trust), as his reinforcer. It works great most of the time. The other times, he and I both get some excitement, but we just do it again as soon as the drama ends. :] I gently close the door, tend to the room, then open the cage door, and show myself to the aviary door.
 
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HeatherG

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If the poster can manage those things I would say “go for it!” I was just wondering how much ability and freedom they have to do those things as I thought this was a very young owner. I can imagine mom and dad saying “this has to stop now or the bird goes” which is why I thought of clipping wings.

Eyes are important and not replaceable.
 

LeeC

Supporting Member
Jun 5, 2019
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Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
I love them a lot, and don’t wanna use the thaw as a punishment ,
Hi, @Raz. I am sorry to hear that you are having attack-parrot problems. What is "the thaw"?

When reading your post, I could not tell at points if she/her referred to your mom or the female Jenday. You said, "they don't have a bond" a couple of times. Do you mean the male and female Jenday or your mom and the male Jenday?
 

LeeC

Supporting Member
Jun 5, 2019
327
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Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
If the poster can manage those things I would say “go for it!” I was just wondering how much ability and freedom they have to do those things as I thought this was a very young owner. I can imagine mom and dad saying “this has to stop now or the bird goes” which is why I thought of clipping wings.

Eyes are important and not replaceable.
My situation definitely has some key differences. There is at least one interesting similarity, though. So, the male, attack-Senegal is Fletcher. Georgia is my ace-flier, female Senegal. Fletcher shares the dining-room aviary with Charlie, a male Senegal.

My first full month with Fletcher, I gave him full liberty within the aviary. I entered and left as needed, with no attacks, for a full month. And then, one day, he came at me. I think it took him that long to come to see the aviary, and/or his new friend Charlie, and/or the apple of his eye Georgia as his "territory". After that, I was the enemy. He saw Georgia landing on me, through his aviary mesh. He saw me petting Charlie. He endured my entering his aviary to clean, and provide food/water.

Having other parrots and other people involved sure adds complexity in troubleshooting.

Agreed--eyes are extremely important. I would limit the attack-parrot's opportunities to attack eyes, while still letting him out and closely observing him to try to figure out what is prompting the attacks.

In my case, knowing (strongly suspecting) why Fletcher attacks does not simply solve the problem. I do know to be mindful of "his" territory; yet, I still have to violate his preferences. I just cage him, briefly, so I can do so safely. My relationship with him has progressed; but, a year later, and I still have to cage him to ensure my safety. At least a few times a week, sometimes a few times in a day, I go it with hat on and dowel in hand, but I never ask him to step up. I watch him closely, and do what I need to do. If he comes at me, the dowel is already vertical, in front of my face. He will "touch off" and fly away. I then go have him step up, and do the routine.
 

wrench13

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Not everyone is so fortunate to be able to build an indoor aviary, considering space. cost and perhaps the landlord (who usually take a very dim view to unauthorized modification to their rental property). And I agree, close observation of the parrot pre-attack can yield hints of what is the trigger and trying to avoid that. However - as Heather pointed out, Moms and Dads take a very big objection to pets that randomly attack them and their kids, so I feel that in this instance, time is of the essence in getting control of this kamikaze parrot. THat means a MILD clip. Have your vet do whats known as a show clip. the very outermost feathers are left alone, and a few of the inner primaries are trimmed back. THis should allow your parrot to glide to the floor and not gain altitude. Too short and he will drop like a stone and that is definitely not what you want.
 
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Raz

Raz

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Two Jendays conures!
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If the poster can manage those things I would say “go for it!” I was just wondering how much ability and freedom they have to do those things as I thought this was a very young owner. I can imagine mom and dad saying “this has to stop now or the bird goes” which is why I thought of clipping wings.

Eyes are important and not replaceable.
Yup- I’m a minor but as soon as I move out you bet this is totally gonna happen.
 
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Raz

Raz

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Two Jendays conures!
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Not everyone is so fortunate to be able to build an indoor aviary, considering space. cost and perhaps the landlord (who usually take a very dim view to unauthorized modification to their rental property). And I agree, close observation of the parrot pre-attack can yield hints of what is the trigger and trying to avoid that. However - as Heather pointed out, Moms and Dads take a very big objection to pets that randomly attack them and their kids, so I feel that in this instance, time is of the essence in getting control of this kamikaze parrot. THat means a MILD clip. Have your vet do whats known as a show clip. the very outermost feathers are left alone, and a few of the inner primaries are trimmed back. THis should allow your parrot to glide to the floor and not gain altitude. Too short and he will drop like a stone and that is definitely not what you want.
The problem is that it’s not even flying, he’ll sit at the edge of the bed and run to attack, but I’ll contract my vet about it
 
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Raz

Raz

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Two Jendays conures!
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Hi, @Raz. I am sorry to hear that you are having attack-parrot problems. What is "the thaw"?

When reading your post, I could not tell at points if she/her referred to your mom or the female Jenday. You said, "they don't have a bond" a couple of times. Do you mean the male and female Jenday or your mom and the male Jenday?
I’m sorry! I meant that. Also everytime I say she, it’s my mother. My conures are madly in love with each other :))
 
OP
Raz

Raz

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Two Jendays conures!
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Clipping wings can cause injury (indirectly), health problems, and new behavioral problems. It is not to be taken lightly, or used as an easy, quick-fix. That may seem like an easy thing to say when I'm not the one with the attack parrot. Well, ...

Just over a year ago, I adopted a Senegal who has a multi-home history of attacking "his human". He comes for my face, or head, every single time. He got my tragus once, early on, and nearly severed it off. He is a very good flier. It never occurred to me to clip his wings--not once.

I gave him an aviary in my house, by converting my open dining area. (So he could have some liberty; and, I could have some safety.) He has a Senegal buddy in there with him. (He is super-friendly to parrots.) They can see the rest of the goings on at all times, too, through the aviary mesh. I have to go in there countless times per day, to tend to them and the room. With the help of his previous keeper and two professional avian behavior specialists, Fletcher and I worked out a system that serves us well, but he still gets urges to come at me.

Before:
View attachment 44447

After:
View attachment 44448
(That photo was taken to show the lower-profile ceiling light, with different light-temperature bulbs.)

They key is to manage the parrot's opportunities. Letting the attempt happen is likely quite reinforcing, and there is little that can be done after to discourage it. The best applied-behavior research we have shows that there is about a 4-second window after a behavior where we can reinforce it or punish it. Under the very best circumstances, with a highly skilled trainer, you might, with some luck, get ten seconds. Can we really get a parrot back in the cage within 4 seconds after an attack? No. Therefore, doing so is not associated, in their mind, as a punishment for that attack. The connection is lost. Focus on prevention. Reading body language; keeping a really close eye; minimizing opportunity; etc. Ideally, consult with a behavior specialist for your particular circumstances.

[Edit] For those who are curious about our "system", I put on a special hat, to signal to Fletcher what is about to happen (and to protect my head and face a bit), and I enter with an 18"-long dowel, presenting it for him to step up. That is the moment of truth. LOL. I then move him to the big, stainless-steel cage, and transfer him to the perch mounted to the inside of the front door. He immediately gets head and neck rubs―for longer than ten seconds―through the bars (at first) or over top the door (now as we build trust), as his reinforcer. It works great most of the time. The other times, he and I both get some excitement, but we just do it again as soon as the drama ends. :] I gently close the door, tend to the room, then open the cage door, and show myself to the aviary door.
This is very heartwarming to hear! I’m so happy you are able to provide for ur bird like this :)
 

LeeC

Supporting Member
Jun 5, 2019
327
Media
3
370
Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
Not everyone is so fortunate to be able to build an indoor aviary, considering space. cost and perhaps the landlord (who usually take a very dim view to unauthorized modification to their rental property). And I agree, close observation of the parrot pre-attack can yield hints of what is the trigger and trying to avoid that. However - as Heather pointed out, Moms and Dads take a very big objection to pets that randomly attack them and their kids, so I feel that in this instance, time is of the essence in getting control of this kamikaze parrot. THat means a MILD clip. Have your vet do whats known as a show clip. the very outermost feathers are left alone, and a few of the inner primaries are trimmed back. THis should allow your parrot to glide to the floor and not gain altitude. Too short and he will drop like a stone and that is definitely not what you want.
@wrench13, are you saying I should have asked my landlord before I did that conversion. ;]

Yes, I give thanks daily for being as fortunate as I am. (And, I work hard to stay so fortunate.) I got this house thinking family gatherings, which lasted about 3 years. After that subsided, a Timneh "picked me" on my first visit to the local parrot rescue, and I thought, "He could make use of the vast empty space in my house." :]

I think wing trimming has extremely limited use, and I am not convinced this is a good case for it. It can give a false sense of security, to the person, and it can make the parrot more fearful. Nothing is free. I've seen parrots with short clips make quite a flight if they really want to (fear). It is a serious situation though. I know too well the "flash" of an attack parrot coming at my face; it happens so fast, even when you think you're expecting it.

Building trust through cage bars or aviary mesh is good. Target training is a good trust-builder, too. My attack-Senegal (Fletcher) was abused at his first home, but I don't know the details, and I don't think I would want to. However, he totally trusts me through bars and mesh. I suppose he feels safe. I can pet him through bars/mesh and he leans into it. He will sit on a mesh-mounted perch and press his head against it if I come near, prompting me to pet him. If I open the aviary door, he may just come out after me, when he realizes I'm not paying full attention. Perplexing.

The main theories are "resource-guarding" (environment, food, his pal Charlie, and his girl Georgia) and "PTSD". He flies around frantically over the slightest sounds sometimes, if they were unfamiliar to him or unexpected. One of my main points, that I did not make crystal clearly is that I only engage with him when I can give him my full attention. It is just to risky to let him out of the aviary, or go into the aviary, otherwise. It's not just the risk of him hurting me--but, the risk of reinforcing the attacks by letting him try, especially if he lands on me. Prevention compounds for us. I can earn the ability to tend to the room without caging him. Letting him try to attack me is an even bigger setback for us.
 
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LeeC

Supporting Member
Jun 5, 2019
327
Media
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370
Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
The problem is that it’s not even flying, he’ll sit at the edge of the bed and run to attack, but I’ll contract my vet about it
Have the vet clip his legs, too. (Being facetious to reinforce my stance on wing clipping 😬)
 
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