Zon 'nibbling' my finger? Why?

[MomtoPercy]

Percy has continued to warm up to me but I still get regular (but not constant, everytime like before) bites that draw blood. It is always the lower mandible that gets me - I'm covered in halfmoon scars! LOL! I do my best to read his signs to avoid the bites but I often get it wrong

Anyway, he's now started asking ME to pick him up - another first. He holds out his left foot (right foot out means : bring your hand, I want to grab it and bite you good! ) and asks "Come? Come?" So, I hold out my hand, he steps on and ZAPS me... Bleeding, I immediately return him to his gym and walk away. He keeps on asking and makes his "I'm so sad" noise until I go back to try again.

When I go back, he will -

* either get on nicely and be all sweet and chatty until I return him to his perch (I don't draw out the visit too long so that I can put him down and still offer praise and reward for "no biting! What a good good birdy!"
*OR get on and bite/nibble my hand. "Nibble" sounds all sweet and lovey but he "bites and releases" several times, hard enough to hurt like hell but not to cut the skin.

My questions are -

*what's with these (hard and painful) "nibbles"? Is it just that he doesn't realise how hard he bites and he actually means to be 'loving'?
*and, sometimes I am reluctant to pick him up when he asks because I am soooo tired of the bleeding burning bites. Should I just keep 'taking it' and going through the 'down, you bit me, we can try again later' tango?

Please help me not destroy the fragile progress we have made.

 

[Captsteve]

It sounds like you are doing the right thing. Just dont fear the beak.

You can also try some beak play with him. This will show him what pressure is okay and what is not. When he is calm, gently grab his beak (the got your beak game) he will bite back (oh, you got my finger or ow, too hard and the game ends) With time and treats he can learn to control the bite pressure and make the game go on longer. Just watch him and dont let him get too excited while playing.

Time and treats and praise will do wonders!!!

With my Too, I will grab and hold his beak when his pressure is a bit much and tell him NO BITE! He responds pretty well to this, but your mileage may vary.

 

[Julianna]

Captsteve, this sounds like a good idea for some birds, but I would be wary of it because with a bird which is nervous with hands, this could build a distrust between the bird and owner/owner's hands. Many birds would take the gesture of having their beaks held as being an aggressive measure from you, and would then not trust the owner's hands because the owner did something the bird was uncomfortable with. However, I can definitely see how this is a great training method for some birds, and actually I may try it myself, as my bird is very comfortable with hands. I just wanted to add a word of caution. =D

MomtoPercy, like Captsteve says, time and treats and praise are probably one of the best things you can do right now. You could also try interacting with Percy without touching him by training some tricks or simply playing with him without holding him. This might be a good way to bond with Percy without having to worry about the bites. Good luck and congrats on your progress so far!

 

[BACON]

Something I may add. You said when he bites you put him on his play gym and walk away??you also said you do it when he's good. All be it with treats and 'good boys'

Maybe if he bites hard/draws blood try putting him in his cage for 5-10 minutes, so he realised when he's a good boy he gets to stay out??
Again it could have a different effect... You don't want him thinking his cage is the place to go when he's bad... He may get confused when it's going home time!!!

Think along those lines tho because he's on his gym when he's good or bad :S

Make sense??

 

[legal_eagle]

It seems that you need to avoid situations where he bites. One of the first principles of helping a parrot learn (as opposed to training him) is to create situations where the unwanted behavior is less likely to occur and the unwanted behavior is less likely to occur. I would try to be aware of what in particular about a situation is associated with biting. Being out of the cage after a long while? Being picked up right away after coming out of his cage? Not wanting to be touched a certain way?

From your description, it sounds like you know in advance when he is going to bite in at least some circumstances. That's exactly when you should NOT pick him up and give him the opportunity to bite. It's not a matter of punishing/rewarding, but more avoiding reinforcing and creating a pattern of behavior.

The goal of not reacting to biting is to avoid possibly reinforcing it. But IMHO you shouldn't just be tolerating biting without figuring out what is associated with the biting.

 

[MomtoPercy]

Thanks for the cooments, guys.

Some feedback -

* Percy doesn't mind his beak being played with (on HIS terms of course LOL) so I will definately try your tip, Captsteve
* Juliana - he is not afraid of hands, so that is not a problem thankfully. I do try and spend a lot of 'hands-off' time with him but will increase the training which has taken a bit of a back seat while I've been working on our relationship. I'm only continuing with target training and step-ups at the moment. Oh, and I do his "high four" every day because although he doesn't need to learn it anymore, he so enjoys the praise for doing it
* Bacon - I've been struggling with the 'time out in the cage' idea. I fully understand what you're saying (and yes, he adores his playgym!) But I am extremely reluctant to make his cage a place he associates (even briefly) with being the 'unhappy place'. Thus far, I've not come up with a solution on this one!
* Legal Eagle - Yes, I do know often when he intends (or is likely) to bite and will not pick him up at all then. He doesn't like being picked up or even approached while he's ontop of his cage (inside the cage is not as bad but still iffy) but will stil ask me to "come?". When he's sitting in the door of his cage, he doesn't mind. When he steps up with the right foot first, I don't even dare because I know that is just a trick to get him some nice mommy flesh . He also doesn't like being picked up when he's already sitting with my mom or son (from previous posts, you may recall I am, sadly, the odd man out who is trying to win him over).
The instances I'm talking about in my orignal post are ONLY when HE requests a pick up from me specifically. He will often ask to be picked up but not always by me. If I am nt the chosen one, I leave him be.

Per previous advice from members here, I've made a concerted effort to "not try so hard" and this has been the turn around in our relationship. I interact a lot with him but not in the demanding (begging/pleading love me please! ) way I used to. I think he's realised that I can't manipulate and bully me anymore but doesn't quite know yet how to change his interactions with me. Could I be right about this?

I've given the matter more thought I I think Captsteve's bite pressure training is a very good idea - not just for MY interactions with him but other family members too because he sometimes bites them too hard as well (although my blood is apparently the sweetest because no-one else gets their skin broken )

I just wish I could understand why he would ASK (beg even) to be picked up and then bite?

Thanks again for the input, it has given me lots to think about.