Sudden Aggression

We adopted a Senior BFA (male) 4 months ago and he was fairly gentle most of the time but I feel that for some reason he has decided I am the enemy.
Whenever I get within 15' of him I get..
(from the stickey)
"Strutting around in a HUNCHED OVER stance, shoulders hunched, head down, beak open, eyes pinning, tail flaired, WINGS HELD SLIGHTLY UP AND POSSIBLY QUIVERING, while chattering TERRITORIAL INTRUSION noises at you: THIS is the AMAZON LINE OF DEATH DANCE."
When he's not doing that he does what I have been calling "Bait and Bite!", he'll seem calm, standing straight with a foot up (Come get me?) and he'll step up and within seconds he reaches down and bites me! This is not a playfull nip, it seems to be an "I really want to see what bone marrow tastes like!" bite. I have been accumulating scars the past month or so and it's really getting old.
How do I make peace?

Geo

Nothing? Well I guess we will figure it out.

Hold on there partner! So Amazons are ruled by their bellies. Figure out the birds absolute favorite treat, and only you get to give it to him. Read the stickies on the Amazon forum, several times. Now read them aloud to the parrot, preferably when you are the only person in the room. Do this for a week, and come on back. I bet you a bag of peanuts to a hundred dollar bill that his attitude to you changes. Also, give the folks here more to work with if you need help. Don't give him the opportunity to bite. So this week no picking him up, only treats thru the bars or when he is on a play stand. When do you normally see him? All day, or when you get home from work? See, more info needed.....

Sorry, Double Post!

Its also a long holiday weekend and some of us have taken a bit of time that we are spending with our Amazons.

So, is there someone else in the household that the Amazon LOVES and you are the odd one out?

Handling an Amazon and the process of Step-up and watching for the transition from a Step to a Bite will likely also involve the shift of the head (downwards). One could use a dropped-hand to put the Amazon off-guard and off-balance! But that requires knowing and seeing that change in the Amazon and reacting!

NOT RECOMMENDED: I have picked-up a fully hormonal raged Amazon and survived without a bite with the above tool. But, you have to be fully into not only watching, but knowing what those moves mean.

FYI: What Changed! Sudden Aggression is not common! There has likely been behaviors and body language signals that you may have missed.

Thanks Wrench & Sailboat, and sorry for the frustrated post.

I will give Wrenche's suggestions a try, although he seems to be escalating things now. He has been coming down off of the cage or playstand and hunting me down, going after my feet, since I live in Florida and don't wear shoes most of the time I have no choice but to retreat. It's amazing how fast he can be on foot.

I am home most of the time and he is in the dining room (which has a view of most of the ground floor)

Sailboat, I wish I could figure that out, I've been thinking about it and haven't come up with anything.
I'll keep

geoholl said:

Thanks Wrench & Sailboat, and sorry for the frustrated post.

I will give Wrenche's suggestions a try, although he seems to be escalating things now. He has been coming down off of the cage or playstand and hunting me down, going after my feet, since I live in Florida and don't wear shoes most of the time I have no choice but to retreat. It's amazing how fast he can be on foot.

I am home most of the time and he is in the dining room (which has a view of most of the ground floor)

Sailboat, I wish I could figure that out, I've been thinking about it and haven't come up with anything.
I'll keep

Click to expand...

Amy STILL does this with me on occasion even after nearly 30 years
The "coming down from her house,head down,beaky open,running full steam" for my foot
I think it hormones. When I get in from work in the morning and say good morning to her and Beebs,while she is still in her house,she gets all Amazonie,fluffs up,tail spread,eyes pining and she is attacking whatever toy happens to be the closest to her beak ( usually its her rubber bell) and she does this,while she lets me skritch her head and/or cheeks




Jim

Good for you. Let's revisit this thread in a week!

geoholl said:

Thanks Wrench & Sailboat, and sorry for the frustrated post.

I will give Wrenche's suggestions a try, although he seems to be escalating things now. He has been coming down off of the cage or playstand and hunting me down, going after my feet, since I live in Florida and don't wear shoes most of the time I have no choice but to retreat. It's amazing how fast he can be on foot.

I am home most of the time and he is in the dining room (which has a view of most of the ground floor)

Sailboat, I wish I could figure that out, I've been thinking about it and haven't come up with anything.
I'll keep

Click to expand...

There is a ton of directions one can go with trying to understand what is driving this. So let's start with the most common issues and that is a lack of sleep. Target 12 to 14 hours minimum of dark and silent sleep each night. Next, target removing all sugar from his diet. Some Pellets have high concentration of sugar and that can be a problem. High levels of salt can also be a problem. NOTE: The closer to the top of the of the listing of included product, the great its volume. Sugar and Salt should be at or very near the bottom.

If your Parrot's cage had come with seed catchers at or near the bottom and they have been removed, reinstall them. Raise the cage off the ground using spacer blocks. Assure that the cage does not fall off the spacer blocks with use of wheel locks or blocks. The goal is make it difficult for him to get onto the floor!!! Amazon's that are toe biters should not be allowed on the floor.

Consider a total restart with your relationship.

Keep thinking about what changed.

SailBoat said:

If your Parrot's cage had come with seed catchers at or near the bottom and they have been removed, reinstall them...


Keep thinking about what changed.

Click to expand...

The Seed (poop) catchers were lost in the move from PA to Florida, in any case thankfully he hasn't repeated that in the past few days.
I have been reading stickies, posts and articles here and online and one thing I am doing may be contributing. Since he came to us the only time he spends in the cage is at night, he spends the day on his playstand and on top of his cage. One of the articles I read says this could encourage him to become territorial.
Maybe I need to limit his time out of the cage? (jeez, I thought trying to understand my wife and daughters was hard..lol) Hopefully he'll figure out that lungeing at me doesn't make the cage door open.

When reading 'other' Threads /Posts, it important to remember that they are commonly written specific to a Parrot /Owner's issues. Being Cage Aggressive /Territorial is most common 'in' the cage, second - on top of the cage and third, on some other object or place other than the above. Its possible, but it is just as possible that you maybe backing into a more serious problem. My belief is that a Parrot outside of a cage is much easier to work with then a Parrot that will not come out of cage without a fight. Just my two cents!

You indicated that you had moved from PA to Florida, how recent was that move?
So, how much restful sleep is your Amazon getting each night?
So, how much sugar and salt in part of the diet you are feeding?
So, what is the relationship like between the Amazon and your Wife?
So, what is the relationship like between the Amazon and your daughter?

SailBoat said:

When reading 'other' Threads /Posts, it important to remember that they are commonly written specific to a Parrot /Owner's issues. Being Cage Aggressive /Territorial is most common 'in' the cage, second - on top of the cage and third, on some other object or place other than the above. Its possible, but it is just as possible that you maybe backing into a more serious problem. My belief is that a Parrot outside of a cage is much easier to work with then a Parrot that will not come out of cage without a fight. Just my two cents!

You indicated that you had moved from PA to Florida, how recent was that move?
So, how much restful sleep is your Amazon getting each night?
So, how much sugar and salt in part of the diet you are feeding?
So, what is the relationship like between the Amazon and your Wife?
So, what is the relationship like between the Amazon and your daughter?

Click to expand...

Thanks Sailboat,
We adopted Thunder here in Florida a few months ago. His cage is in the diningroom and it has a cover for light, he gets a good 12 hours I'd say.
As far as the diet goes it was a mixture for birds that included Amazons, I transferred the food to an airtight container and do not have the package, I will check the label when I go back to the shop and keep sugars/salts in mind when I get new food.
He is not aggressive toward the wife but not affectionate either, he will allow her to give him scratches occasionally (me too on good days) and he does accept food from both of us.
It is just the two of us here, well us, Thunder, four cats and a dog..lol

George

I think this is good news...in a way! I don't quite agree with the diagnosis of "sudden aggression" I think he was probably just behaving himself out of fear of being in a new situation and now he's able to feel more confident in letting you know what's what.

I thought a bird you'd had for a while had suddenly changed, which would be hard, but important to work out why. But actually you haven't really got a relationship with this bird yet. So starting from the beginning and building trust should sort it out.

It probably feels like things have "gone wrong" , but I really don't think they have. He's actually happy enough to let you know how he really feels now. I guess your relationship starts here. Good luck!

Sorry. I'm not on the board very much anymore. Just saw this.

My thoughts on this one:

1. Is it territorial related?! Is he acting this way in one spot, but not somewhere else.

2. Is this bird hormonal right now? If so, it'll calm down when the hormones calm down.

3. Overbonding/Disfavored person trigger. These are pair bond birds. If this bird has decided that someone else in the house is "his person" he may be communicating to YOU NOT... which when it's a hormonal bird, courting another person... THERE YOU GO.

Obviously I suspect it may be what's behind door number 3, but without actually seeing the interaction, and interacting with the bird myself to see how he reacts, I'm just guessing. Somewhere on this side I have a behavior modification for "disfavored person training." It's a step by step tutorial.

An aggressive bird, in my opinion, should be clipped.

And biting birds in my house tend to meet the floor, and meet Mr. Towel.

They also learn the phrases "knock it off" and "that's too hard" rather quickly...

Birdman666 said:

Sorry. I'm not on the board very much anymore. Just saw this.

My thoughts on this one:

1. Is it territorial related?! Is he acting this way in one spot, but not somewhere else.

2. Is this bird hormonal right now? If so, it'll calm down when the hormones calm down.

3. Overbonding/Disfavored person trigger. These are pair bond birds. If this bird has decided that someone else in the house is "his person" he may be communicating to YOU NOT... which when it's a hormonal bird, courting another person... THERE YOU GO.

Obviously I suspect it may be what's behind door number 3, but without actually seeing the interaction, and interacting with the bird myself to see how he reacts, I'm just guessing. Somewhere on this side I have a behavior modification for "disfavored person training." It's a step by step tutorial.

Click to expand...

I believe you are right.. sort of. He is a senior bird according to the rescue but I believe the "person" he is courting is not a person. We have a very talkative, affectionate cat named Romeo (of course).
Thunder gets very excited every time he sees or hears him and he comes down off of the cage when he can and follows Romeo around the house chirping meows at him. Romeo seems very confused by this and Thunder gets a good workout following him around.
I, on the other hand, am the "competition" and Thunder puts his head down and charges me if I happen to be in the same area, so yes I think it is door #3 "YOU NOT"!
I can accept that but in order to protect my toes I'll be looking for the seed/poop catchers for his cage to limit his "floor time". Hopefully if/when his hormones settle we can be friendly again.
Thanks, I'll look for the post you mentioned,

George

Birman666,
I have searched for the "Disfavored Person Training" and even though you have referred quite a few of us to it I can't seem to find the actual post. Maybe it should be a "Stickey"?

Thanks,
George

BINGO! Give the man a Cigar... that sounds like a correct assessment of your situation, and this will probably calm down when the hormones do... and then flair up again from time to time...

Hey, one of my amazons court's the COFFEE POT when it's "that time of year"... and you don't dare interrupt her little courting dance while the coffee is brewing, because it's the one time that bird may actually BITE you... (seriously, I'm trying to get my freak on here... )

TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE LINKS IN THIS THREAD. DISFAVORED PERSON TRAINING IS IN ONE OF THEM, BUT SOME OFTHE OTHER LINKS MAY ALSO BE USEFUL TO YOUR SITUATION:

http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/50366-bird-hates-me.html

Pls post a link when you find the" disfavor favorite human "thread.

I got some of that!

Thanks neighbor..





QUOTE=Birdman666;661696]Sorry. I'm not on the board very much anymore. Just saw this.

My thoughts on this one:

1. Is it territorial related?! Is he acting this way in one spot, but not somewhere else.

2. Is this bird hormonal right now? If so, it'll calm down when the hormones calm down.

3. Overbonding/Disfavored person trigger. These are pair bond birds. If this bird has decided that someone else in the house is "his person" he may be communicating to YOU NOT... which when it's a hormonal bird, courting another person... THERE YOU GO.

Obviously I suspect it may be what's behind door number 3, but without actually seeing the interaction, and interacting with the bird myself to see how he reacts, I'm just guessing. Somewhere on this side I have a behavior modification for "disfavored person training." It's a step by step tutorial.[/QUOTE]

Found this..
"Disfavored Person Behavior Mods.
Put a training perch in a neutral room (a room that your bird is not or less familiar with)
Using the “step up” command have the preferred person take the bird from its cage and to the training perch
After the preferred person leaves that area (out of sight and no voice heard), have the less preferred person enter the area and sit and talk to the bird calmly
Be animated and expressive and use the bird’s name often.
Using the command “step up” in an assertive fashion, have the bird step up onto your hand
If successful, praise and compliment
If not successful, scowl and give a brief disapproving look and say it again and insist on the step up
Repeat for a minimum of ten minutes (make it as fun as possible, keep the energy level low if stressed)
End with a calm conversation using the bird’s name and lots of praise. At the end of the session, the favored person comes in and returns the bird to its cage and rewards it.

If the bird is not at all tame with the disfavored person, then do the basic taming and training exercises described in the birdbites protocol. Twice a day for two weeks should see marked improvement for most disfavored person behavior troubles."