Cockatoo snuggles - should I allow this?

Snapdragon · Jan 11, 2020

One of the parrots I work with is a big M2, "C". C is a long-term boarder because his parront is very ill. We've struck up a nice friendship, and he trusts me enough to step up for me. (On his terms, LOL.) Recently, he's begun leaning his chest against mine and resting his forehead against my chest as soon as I bring him out. I'm not sure whether I should allow this. With most parrots, I suspect the answer would be "NO!" However, I'm not sure whether the rules are exactly the same for cockatoos?

I suspect that C is used to snuggling this way with his parront, and it's obvious that he gets a lot of comfort from it. When C snuggles up to me, I am still very careful to only touch his head and neck. I want to allow the snuggles, but I want to do what's best for him. I definitely do NOT want him to think of me as a potential mate.

What do you all think? Thank you for your advice!

noodles123 · Jan 11, 2020

Keep that to a minimum---it can be just a sign of bonding, but it gets sexual very easily. I wouldn't--especially because he will not be with you forever and the line is so easily crossed. If you keep it very short and sweet, that is probably okay, but like a minute max would be my thought . Head and neck pets only still (as stated in your post). I do think they need a bit of this if they are used to it, but keeping it short is very important.

Scott · Jan 12, 2020

I tend to cuddle my cockatoos and have not seen adverse effects. Perhaps this is species-specific (Goffins) or they are sufficiently well adjusted to view me as parront in asexual context. None have ever attempted to perform mating rituals with me.

Siobhan · Jan 13, 2020

I snuggle Rocky like that every night when I rock him to sleep. As long as you just pet his head, and are alert for signs of friskiness, it should be okay.

Patty550 · Jan 17, 2020

Shelby and I snuggle a lot, even though we've been worried about her behavior towards my wife and one of our three dogs, but not with our three cats. From reading and advice from others here, we don't think our hugging is the problems.

She's jealous of Patty and our Sheltie.

We're a hugging family ! &#55357;&#56833;

noodles123 · Jan 17, 2020

Patty550 said:
Shelby and I snuggle a lot, even though we've been worried about her behavior towards my wife and one of our three dogs, but not with our three cats. From reading and advice from others here, we don't think our hugging is the problems.

She's jealous of Patty and our Sheltie.

We're a hugging family ! ��

Patty--I must voice some strong disagreement here---that jealousy would not likely be so extreme in a situation where a bird was not being sexually stimulated. I am part of a hugging family too, but one must remember that every species has its own peccadilloes. Cockatoos are the most re-homed of any bird species and it is often due to this very thing..
Also- just looked back at replies from cockatoo owners and basically everyone said, don't cuddle and no boxes. It should also be noted that a Goffins and Umbrellas are quite different...Even then,given the situation described in the referenced threads, I am not sure who said that cockatoo cuddles were a good idea (I couldn't find any)..
Yes, some people have said that in Snapdragon's situation, they could be okay, BUT if your bird is showing signs of aggression, you have no business engaging in cuddles (it is likely mate defending behavior, as your bird sees your wife and dog as a threat to her relationship with you)...I am just saying...In some (very limited) situations, there is no harm, but if a bird is showing chase behavior/territorial issues, there is most definitively a problem with cuddling that bird...It is situational, but a cockatoo who is biting/chasing cannot be cuddled, and it is cuddles that often lead to this sort of behavior in adult birds.

Scott · Jan 18, 2020

noodles123 said:
Also- just looked back at replies from cockatoo owners and basically everyone said, don't cuddle and no boxes. It should also be noted that a Goffins and Umbrellas are quite different...Even then,given the situation described in the referenced threads, I am not sure who said that cockatoo cuddles were a good idea (I couldn't find any)..
Yes, some people have said that in Snapdragon's situation, they could be okay, BUT if your bird is showing signs of aggression, you have no business engaging in cuddles (it is likely mate defending behavior, as your bird sees your wife and dog as a threat to her relationship with you)...I am just saying...In some (very limited) situations, there is no harm, but if a bird is showing chase behavior/territorial issues, there is most definitively a problem with cuddling that bird...It is situational, but a cockatoo who is biting/chasing cannot be cuddled, and it is cuddles that often lead to this sort of behavior in adult birds.

Cockatoos are not a monolithic species, I doubt Goffins are behavioral outliers. Aviculture is rife with sweeping generalizations, yet our fids are individualistic and fall across the bell curve of temperament.

Thus far three participants and the OP disclose benign situational cuddling/close contact absent existential harm. We don't have a blanket consensus to offer rigid council for "C."

noodles123 · Jan 18, 2020

Scott said:
noodles123 said:

Also- just looked back at replies from cockatoo owners and basically everyone said, don't cuddle and no boxes. It should also be noted that a Goffins and Umbrellas are quite different...Even then,given the situation described in the referenced threads, I am not sure who said that cockatoo cuddles were a good idea (I couldn't find any)..
Yes, some people have said that in Snapdragon's situation, they could be okay, BUT if your bird is showing signs of aggression, you have no business engaging in cuddles (it is likely mate defending behavior, as your bird sees your wife and dog as a threat to her relationship with you)...I am just saying...In some (very limited) situations, there is no harm, but if a bird is showing chase behavior/territorial issues, there is most definitively a problem with cuddling that bird...It is situational, but a cockatoo who is biting/chasing cannot be cuddled, and it is cuddles that often lead to this sort of behavior in adult birds.

Click to expand...

Cockatoos are not a monolithic species, I doubt Goffins are behavioral outliers. Aviculture is rife with sweeping generalizations, yet our fids are individualistic and fall across the bell curve of temperament.

Thus far three participants and the OP disclose benign situational cuddling/close contact absent existential harm. We don't have a blanket consensus to offer rigid council for "C."

Yes Scott, in this post that was the general consensus, but I was concerned by Patty's statement above: "From reading and advice from others here, we don't think our hugging is the problems.She's jealous of Patty and our Sheltie. " In one of the numerous posts that originally addressed this very concern, cuddles were discouraged my nearly all commenting on the situation. The posts discussed problematic exhibitions of aggressive behaviors associated closely with hormones.

The general rule is to pet on the head and neck only (but especially if you are having behavioral problems). If a bird is chasing people and exhibiting extreme levels of jealousy and that bird is being snuggled regularly, that is a major indicator that one should stop snuggling said bird. Not saying this always will be a trigger, but when behaviors are present, that means you need to look at all of the factors that could be contributing, rather than assuming snuggles are harmless. The majority of cockatoo literature out there generally says cuddles are often more harmful than not. I know that has not been everyone's experience, but it is a rule of thumb which shouldn't be ignored when problematic behaviors are occurring in conjunction. Birds don't typically get hyper-jealous unless something hormonal is going on... at least not to the point of biting/chasing etc. So that isn't "just jealousy" and cuddles could be part of the problem in Patty's (427hiss) case---the quote below came from one of the past posts I was referencing and that is why I was concerned/commented on the quote within this specific thread.

427HISS said:
I do pet, stroke and hug alot. I don't know what to call this reaction, but some times while I'm hugging her, she will kind quiver and blow air out I think, her nose like quickly, "poof,..poof....poof". Is it a sexual reaction ?

We have three dogs, a Terrier, bBrussel Griffon, the Sheltie and three cats. Shelby only goes after our Sheltie and sometimes, my wife, but not bad.

This is not harmless and it (along with the concerning behaviors described in previous posts) will escalate if stroking/cuddles continue.

Patty550 · Jan 18, 2020

Well, hugging is over for Shelby and I. Very sad...😥

I don't want to make matters worse. Thankfully, we have other pets to hug. I think we should not give them hugs in front of Shelby either.

noodles123 · Jan 18, 2020

Patty550 said:
Well, hugging is over for Shelby and I. Very sad...��

I don't want to make matters worse. Thankfully, we have other pets to hug. I think we should not give them hugs in front of Shelby either.

I didn't mean to single you out or to say that you can never ever touch your bird or something-- it's just that quivering is a sign that it is stimulating and those behaviors are likely related (especially since you are seeing that sexual twitching/puffing reaction).
Some birds are more sensitive to this sort of thing than others. You can still show affection etc, just be aware of the message it may be sending to your bird and keep petting on the head and neck because you are seeing behaviors. There is a bit more leeway in some cases, but you just have be very careful since you know that this is triggering your bird based on the puffing/twitching.

Scott · Jan 18, 2020

noodles123 said:
Scott said:

noodles123 said:

Also- just looked back at replies from cockatoo owners and basically everyone said, don't cuddle and no boxes. It should also be noted that a Goffins and Umbrellas are quite different...Even then,given the situation described in the referenced threads, I am not sure who said that cockatoo cuddles were a good idea (I couldn't find any)..
Yes, some people have said that in Snapdragon's situation, they could be okay, BUT if your bird is showing signs of aggression, you have no business engaging in cuddles (it is likely mate defending behavior, as your bird sees your wife and dog as a threat to her relationship with you)...I am just saying...In some (very limited) situations, there is no harm, but if a bird is showing chase behavior/territorial issues, there is most definitively a problem with cuddling that bird...It is situational, but a cockatoo who is biting/chasing cannot be cuddled, and it is cuddles that often lead to this sort of behavior in adult birds.

Click to expand...

Cockatoos are not a monolithic species, I doubt Goffins are behavioral outliers. Aviculture is rife with sweeping generalizations, yet our fids are individualistic and fall across the bell curve of temperament.

Thus far three participants and the OP disclose benign situational cuddling/close contact absent existential harm. We don't have a blanket consensus to offer rigid council for "C."

Click to expand...

Yes Scott, in this post that was the general consensus, but I was concerned by Patty's statement above: "From reading and advice from others here, we don't think our hugging is the problems.She's jealous of Patty and our Sheltie. " In one of the numerous posts that originally addressed this very concern, cuddles were discouraged my nearly all commenting on the situation. The posts discussed problematic exhibitions of aggressive behaviors associated closely with hormones.

The general rule is to pet on the head and neck only (but especially if you are having behavioral problems). If a bird is chasing people and exhibiting extreme levels of jealousy and that bird is being snuggled regularly, that is a major indicator that one should stop snuggling said bird. Not saying this always will be a trigger, but when behaviors are present, that means you need to look at all of the factors that could be contributing, rather than assuming snuggles are harmless. The majority of cockatoo literature out there generally says cuddles are often more harmful than not. I know that has not been everyone's experience, but it is a rule of thumb which shouldn't be ignored when problematic behaviors are occurring in conjunction. Birds don't typically get hyper-jealous unless something hormonal is going on... at least not to the point of biting/chasing etc. So that isn't "just jealousy" and cuddles could be part of the problem in Patty's (427hiss) case---the quote below came from one of the past posts I was referencing and that is why I was concerned/commented on the quote within this specific thread.

427HISS said:

I do pet, stroke and hug alot. I don't know what to call this reaction, but some times while I'm hugging her, she will kind quiver and blow air out I think, her nose like quickly, "poof,..poof....poof". Is it a sexual reaction ?

We have three dogs, a Terrier, bBrussel Griffon, the Sheltie and three cats. Shelby only goes after our Sheltie and sometimes, my wife, but not bad.

Click to expand...

This is not harmless and it (along with the concerning behaviors described in previous posts) will escalate if stroking/cuddles continue.

I would agree with the "puffing of air" sounds as sexual, but that is from another thread and not proximate to the OP question. One can build a narrative and extrapolate a recurrent theme using quotes out of context. My role is simply to offer Snapdragon balanced opinion. If "C" finds the illustrated behavior comforting and it does not escalate, life is good! With Shelby, cuddling is escalatory and the parronts have taken corrective action.

noodles123 · Jan 18, 2020

Agreed on all accounts. I can see why that was confusing. I didn't mean to pull anything out of context.

Patty550 · Jan 18, 2020

I agree. It's better for all of our family. We also need to play some games and toys to keep her mind occupying throughout the day. Keep her mind off sex. lol

She does not play much with toys, but loves tearing cardboard apart, as it's easy !

Snapdragon · Jan 19, 2020

Thank you all for your answers! My apologies for such a late response; one of my coworkers quit early last week and I'm now working six days per week.

I'll be very careful about how much snuggling I allow. C hasn't made any mate-type overtures that I've noticed, so I think so far we're good. He's just a very sweet boy who is missing his parront VERY badly and sometimes needs a short snuggle from a friend. I'll make sure that he continues to view me as a friend!

snapdragon-albums-c-m2-picture22138-silly-boy-crammed-least-five-pellets-into-his-beak.jpg

Scott · Jan 19, 2020

Now that's a gorgeous Moluccan!!

I'd continue as usual with "C" and pay very close attention to his reactions. You can back off at the slightest hint of mistaken contact.

Siobhan · Jan 20, 2020

Some of it depends on other factors, too. If the bird is already getting hormonal and you snuggle a lot, it will escalate. With Rocky, if he starts raising his wings and trying to grab my petting hand with his foot, we stop and I tell him he's being "creepy." He knows what that means now. It means Mama stops petting and he has to sit on his perch and he doesn't want to sit on his perch, he wants to snuggle, so that usually does the trick by itself. It's really a matter of building relationship with the bird, and setting boundaries, and enforcing them, and making sure the bird understands that this isn't rejection, it's a boundary.

Cockatoo snuggles - should I allow this?

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Cockatoo never wants to be in the cage

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