New to the forum: Debate about taking a CAG home before it is fully weaned

[nikkiferguson5038]

I would prefer guests responses that have proved that this method is true or false in there own experience. Not just what they have hear on the internet or books. Sorry to be demanding but I want physical proof from experienced personal.:05:

A gentleman that we are purchasing our grey from has been breeding and hand raising for quite some time. He currently "co-parents" with the feeding. the grey parents feed during the day and he feeds during the evening. He told us that he would let us take the baby grey early after he has grown some of his pin feathers and stabilized his legs. We have never hand-fed a parrot before, but have done days of research. Literally, I come home from work and sit on the computer for hours or go to the library/bookstore and read about CAGs and hand-feeding/weaning/fledging. The breeder has also said that he will teach us how to hand feed. He have an Avian Vet in mind. Adolf Maas from Bothell. He is part of the Association of Avian Veterinarians. I fyou know of a better Avain Vet in the Everett WA area let me know.

We would be taking him home around 8 weeks old or so (the breeder says he is developing slower than normal, but wants to keep him until his pin feathers start to grow and his legs stabilize). That would give us between 4 weeks to several months of hands on syringe or spoon feeding. The reason why the breeder is allowing us this option is because there will always be someone home, we have done research, and he had a full time job and doesn’t have time to fully hand-feed the parrot like most breeders do. I fully understand how dangerous hand feeding a parrot is if you don't know how. Asphyxiation is a very real risk in this situation. But we feel we have the time, patience, and supplies to provide our new child with all the love and care we could possibly provide.

We prefer to keep our birds wings unclipped to build confidence, character, and preventing phobias. So we think that the longer fledging period would be benifical to the parrot where as this breeder prefers to allow the bird to fledge for only one to two weeks before clipping.
I have read online and in books that CAGs that are hand fed by the human parents at an early age are most likely to reject that human later on in life at about the age the parents would naturally kick them out of the next to avoid mating with the parents. Will a baby CAG reject me later on in life because I hand-raised him?

What is your personal opinion on the subject. Not just what you heard online, or what you believe to be true. The only reason I am being this demanding is because I want cold hard facts and true real life experiences.

And if you know of any other websites with lots of info on CAGs, weaning, fledging, cheap homemade toys, cheap places to buy or collect perches (wood and rope) pretty much anything related to greys, please let me know. I am a sponge with limitless space for absorbing info on CAGS. Teach me more with our personal experiences.

Hopefully this wasnt too long and boring. Just trying to get and honest opinion that is not "one-sided."

I'm not even sure if my question was fully presented. Just want your opinion on taking a grey babie home before it is fully weaned? Does it really affect the rest of his life so negatively being raised by the "human-parents"?

 

[Sassy]

My baby CAG is 16 weeks. There was another baby grey that was about a week behind in age that passed away at about 12 weeks due to aspiration. This happened in the hands of a VERY experienced hand feeder. I personally think the risks are too great for anyone that's not experienced to even attempt to hand feed. It's dangerous even if you know what you are doing.

You may also want to check this site out. Lots of good info here too.
http://www.greyforums.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?19-The-Nursery

good luck
Sassy

 

[Spiritbird]

Cold hard facts from one of our breeder members:

Hazards of buying an unweaned baby

 

[nikkiferguson5038]

Sounds like the "Hazard of buying an unweaned baby" is very one-sided. Almost like a rant.

I would prefer statistics i guess. How many babies pass away do to asphyxiation? The breeders amount of losses of babies during the first clutch ever raised, second, third, etc from asphyxiation/aspiration.

I really enjoy this website, since they discuss a variety of questions about the parrot raising process
Science of Handfeeding and Weaning the Baby Parrot Overview    The Parrot University

I love the section on "Common Worries about Handfeeding" because it goes into depth about the worries and ways to get through them.

 

[friedsoup]

If it's yours it's too many!

 

[Parrotmamma]

I personally wouldn't do it because I would feel just horrible if I caused any harm to the baby. For me, the risk is just to high to take a chance like that .

 

[bumblebec]

I personally wouldn't do it... It's just not worth the risks. There's so many reasons why you shouldn't do it.

Besides, if something was to happen while the bird was being raised by the breeder, I imagine you'd feel pretty awful, but not half as awful as you'd feel if you were raising it yourself, ya know? If a baby bird doens't make it while a breeder is raising it, it's sad... very sad, you'll feel awful for while, but you will get over it. If you brought home a baby, raised it for a few weeks and completely fell in love with it, and then something happened, it would be so much worse.

I think leaving the weaning up to the breeder is the best idea, there's a reason why selling unweaned babies is frowned upon by people who love birds.

Personally, I think you should find a different breeder, I wouldn't want to give someone like that my business.

 

[Echo]

The reason why the breeder is allowing us this option is because there will always be someone home, we have done research, and he had a full time job and doesn’t have time to fully hand-feed the parrot like most breeders do. [/SIZE]

I also have a full time job beside being a breeder. I'm also a wife and mother. I'm VERY busy. I raise the babies using the co-parenting method as well. However I do not sell unweaned babies. I don't care who will ask, I take great care and pride in raising healthy, tame, well adjusted birds and will never ever jeopardize their life.

I also own a hand raised CAG who was weaned, however I wished I had known what I know now and would have wished for a co-parented baby. From my experience, especially with sensitive CAGs, taking them early from their parents to hand feed, doesn't help their independence. Yes they bond to you, but some of them, almost too much and become a one person bird, not allowing the friendship of other birds.

Co-parenting is more challenging than strictly hand feeding as the baby doesn't really need you for food. It is more time consuming because you have to socialize the babies a lot if you want them to be tame. It is not a good reason to sell them unweaned. That is not a good caring breeder you have found, and that is not one I would do business with.

From your post, it sounds like you have already made up your mind however.....

 

[lene1949]

In many countries is illegal to sell unweaned baby birds... That alone should tell you something...

You didn't want websites, you wanted personal experiences... Yet.. you seem to believe the website you provided a link to...

I honestly think that finishing a baby weaning (one feed per day) is OK... but I would hesitate to take a bird that's still on 3-4 feeds per day...

 

[wenz2712]

I personally would not take the risk! I would wait until he is fully weaned!

I am happy to say that it is now illegal here in the UK for a breeder to sell unweaned Birds and has been for quite a few Years now!

 

[justinlm24]

I'm not a breeder, and certainly no expert, but based on what i have read and been told its a very delicate process that should be left to the experienced breeder. That's not to say you or anyone else couldn't do it, but is it worth the risk? I have heard some sad stories. Why not just wait the few extra weeks for the baby to be fully weaned? If this breeder doesn't have time to fully wean the bird then did he have time to properly socialize and hand rear the bird either? I would personally look elsewhere as that would concern me if my breeder told me they didn't really have the time to care for my bird.

 

[wolf0994]

It agree it does appear that the OP has already made their mind up, and the only way it could be changed is to hear a breeder say "I have lost X.X number of babies due to this or that". Especially since they are trying to provide so much supportive evidence proving it "can" be done.

You asked for a personal experience. You got some from a breeder. Was it one sided? It was that breeders opinion based off of his experiences. Any responsible breeder of any species of animal is going to do the best they can to provide as safe of care as they can possibly manage to their animals.

You asked for real life experiences. He gave you some, but it appears that it was information you didn't want to hear. I am sure you wanted to hear some success stories and I am sure there are some. It is up to you on whether your willing to take that risk.

No one here would want to hear anything but good news on your bird. We all want to hear a success story about you getting your baby. I hope you dont view their input as a shame on you... just as a caution to be safe as they want your bird to be healthy and for you to have a very long happy life together.

Whatever choice you make, I wish you the very best!

 

[nikkiferguson5038]

So knock on wood, that he ever got sick and I had to hand feed him.
Should I be so terrified of hand feeding because everyone says that he will aspirate, get pneumonia, asphyxiate and die in my hands
...OR...
do wisp an ill bird off to a breeders house because they are the only one equipped or intelligent enough to hand feed a parrot, and that is the only way
...OR...
Should I nurture my ill parrot myself by hand feeding him because I had experience doing it will he was younger and am now confident in my abilities to take care of my ill parrot and in an environment he is comfortable in.

I have not completely made up my mind yet. I am just looking for people with evidence that this happens with inexperience hand feeders.

This is more or a research project for me. I want to be told the truth. Email me the vet records of a case that shows that the baby died from aspiration, sour crop, crop burns, or asphyxiation. I feel like most websites I read are misleading because they don’t have any scientific or vet records saying that his happened. So I am still hoping that the parrot forum will have people that could say that this happened to me this many times when I first started hand feeding. If you don’t want to say on this thread, then send me a message so no one will now except for me.

This doesn’t mean that I will actually take on hand feeding right now. It was given to me as an option, but again not sure I want to take on the responsibility. But in the future, I would be interested in knowing how to hand feed. I would much prefer that all parrots only lived in the wild and not in our homes. But we can all sympathize that we could not imagine our lives without parrots and their unique personalities and company.

Since every respected hand feeders was new at some point in there life (hand feeders are not born with all the natural talent to feed a bird, they learned some how).

So when you were inexperienced, and it was your first time hand feeding a parrot, did that parrot survive or pass away due to you being an inexperienced hand feeder causing it to aspirate, get aspiration pneumonia, or asphyxiate? How many time have you had a parrot get sour crop or crop burns if you followed the procedure exactly?
How did you learn to hand feed parrots?

 

[wulfie]

so you won't take a breeder's word for it, and you want physical proof, I don't see that happening. And yes, if our fids get sick enough, we DO take them to the vet, I doubt many here would handfeed a fid if it was really that sick

 

[LStraw]

My TAG was born at the end of January 2008 and I got him in March....I handfed him starting 3 times a day until he was weaned. It was great bonding time with him and he's my baby....but, I do know the risks of aspiration, etc. I had never handfed a baby bird before, this was a first. My experience was great. Since then we rescued a baby sparrow that kept falling out of the nest. For fear of an animal getting it, we brought it in and handfed it....he is now over 2 years old. He isn't as big as outside sparrows and we were afraid he would not know how to survive in the "wild" so we kept him and he is thriving. Both handfeeding experiences I've had have been positive. But, like I said, I also know the risks.

 

[nikkiferguson5038]

And thank you Sassy for giving me an actual case of this happening. That is what needed and was asking for. Do you know if it was from aspiration pneumonia? Or did the bird aspirate and then asphyxiate.

And thank you LStraw. I needed a positive story. What a beautiful time you two had in the hand feeding process.

And thank you to everyone else for your posts. I do appreciate them.

 

[Spiritbird]

Thread closed.