Possible Beak and Feather Disease & some questions

Brace yourselves; this could turn into a long one.

Now that I have stopped crying I can finally start typing this. I would greatly appreciate any advice or reassurance that any of you can provide.

I'd best start at the beginning:

I've had Kodie for coming up on two years - here is a link to the introduction thread that I posted on the forum not long after I had her - Click

A few weeks later we had some initial trouble with her chewing some of her chest feathers and being too rough with her flights. The former resolved itself and she still plays too roughly for my liking but what can you do...

It has been very difficult introducing new toys and we have found that she makes a snap decision on whether she likes something or doesn't. If she doesn't then she will not tolerate it even being in her sight and it has to be hidden. After a lot of trial and error with a number of toys and perches, things seemed to be settled.

She had her second birthday in September and it would be fair to say we have noticed some very minor testiness in her attitude from around that time. I had been pre-warned that around that age they can turn into little flying horrors but Kodie has been fine and all she has done is [try to] push her boundaries slightly by not stepping off when asked and the odd warning lunge.

Everything had been brilliant until a few weeks ago when her chest feathers were reduced to fluff again overnight. Nothing had changed in her environment that we could detect. She is played with everyday and has a few hours out of her cage to fly around the house with us or chill in the bedroom as she pleases. Last week however, we noticed that she had started to chew feathers on her back resulting in fluffy white feathers poking through and on each wing she has appeared to have a go at one or two feathers on each wing. We could see a little of her skin on times.

I took her to the vets on Friday and she was seen by a specialist avian vet. We had some bloods taken and he checked her for any parasites but could find none.

Today I was called with the results. Her calcium was below normal which I can only assume is my own fault for not giving her enough calcivet. We are immediately swapping back over from her glass bottle to a dish so that we can more accurately administer it. I am also going to look into a powdered from instead.

He also told me that her white blood cell count was about 10 times lower than he would have expected and he wanted my consent to order a PBFD test. I am hoping we will get the results before Christmas but I'm not holding my breath.

When he called, my girlfriend and I were actually in the pet store we bought her from getting her food. I'm no expert on the disease or on parrots in general, but I had heard of it and knew what it could mean. After hanging up I told my girlfriend that I wanted to leave but as soon as we turned to go one of the staff members asked how she was. The look on her face when I explained she was going go to be tested for PBFD pretty much did the explaining for my girlfriend who wasn't aware of the disease.

I had to pull over on the way home for a cry and get myself together. I'm trying to stay positive and hope for the best but it's unbearable.

Anyway, I'm hoping you guys with your incredible collective knowledge could offer me some advice on a few things:

1) Since we have had Kodie she has always lived at my girlfriends house. We are extraordinarily lucky that she is bonded to the both of us and so even if I do not see her for a day or two I know she is getting the attention and care she needs from my girlfriend who loves her to death.

That said, if she tests positive and is later confirmed to have the condition, I know that it is in all likelihood going to cut years off her life, assuming that she doesn't succumb to anything particularly nasty. To that end I would really like to spend more time with her and at the moment I have more leisure time than my girlfriend.

My question is does anyone have any experience of a parrot having two homes? I am considering buying and setting up an identical cage in my own home so that Kodie can come with me to my girlfriends house when I need to, so that she has the maximum amount of company we can both offer.

I know that parrots and Greys in particular are sensitive to change and the last thing I want to do is stress her if her immune system is so drastically compromised. Does anyone know of anyone having any success with this?

2) Are there any other less sinister conditions that can cause such a drop in white blood cell count?

Thanks in advance

Mat

Mat, I am SO sorry you are going through this with Kodie!! Please don't beat yourself up. Try and remain positive while waiting for the results.

Let me ask: She is your (and your GF's) only bird, right? Have you (or your GF) handled any other birds since you've had her?

IF the test comes back positive, please re-test her. There IS such a thing as a 'false' positive! (And the other way around, unfortunately)

Psittacine Beak and Feather Disease (PBFD)
http://projectparrot.com/articles/0306DiseasePathology.pdf

A drop in white blood cells may not mean your girl has PDFD at all.

I'll be thinking of you!

Thank you Wendy.

Yes she is our first and only bird. As for handling any other birds, not really - the very most we would have handled any bird would be as simple as a finger through a cage stroking another one in the pet store we bought her from, and that is very few and far between.

I'll definitely have her tested again after 90 days. Even if it comes back positive I'll try to stay hopeful she can mount a resistance.

I know how scared you must feel, Mat, but, it might not be PBFD. I used to be not all that afraid of that condition, until a friend's Grey contracted it with no known transmission other than toys from a bird mart (the store she got him from tests their birds). So now I spend a lot of time really concerned about that condition and reading a lot about it. However, in true PBFD, it's not just feather loss on the chest. It usually starts around the ears. The fact that hers is localized to her chest and back, where a bird might chew, is less concerning. I'm sure your vet is just ruling that out. I hope your bird will be just fine. Please report back as soon as you know.

Mat, I send hugs to to you and your fid. I know this is so hard to see, but stay vigilant with your vet staff for progress reports.. I know the worry is hard with all if the holiday vacations. Positive thoughts your way to make you babies sate. Keep up the great work!!!

Thanks both, it means a lot!

I would still love to hear from anyone who has experience of keeping a Grey or even a similar species in two homes?

Wish I could help you! I will be waiting right along with you for the test results. When are you expecting to have the results?

Hang in there! St. re a ding this brought me to tears!

There's no guarantee that PFD is causing the low white-cell count, so let's hope that something less is causing that.

As far as the chewing is concerned, if it helps, when we adopted our CAG "Reno" he appeared the same way (worse, actually), with only fluff on his chest and back. He also had only one, single, tiny red tail feather (just a tiny bit of red fluff, really). He had chewed his feathers off, rather than pulling them out. His flight feathers were reduced to nubs, except for 2 or 3 on each wing, which were inexplicably complete.

The lady we got him from said that he'd been doing this consistently for the last 10 years, since he was weaned. Whenever he'd start to get feathers again, after a month or so, he'd chew them all off, leaving little but tufts of down. He was also considerably thinner than I liked, and his keel was fairly prominent. She advised he was a picky eater.

He was a well-loved and well cared-for bird, but something in his environment obviously stressed him and CAGs, from what I've read, are extremely susceptible to stress & often respond with chewing or plucking.

Fast forward to precisely 1 year later. He is now the poster-child for a perfect CAG. He has glorious, full plumage all over, and is an active, outgoing, and mischievous bird, with an unabashed sense of humor & comedic timing. He also eats anything, and everything, he can get to. Go ahead - just TRY to eat a sandwich! The other day, I was having a piece of pie & whipped cream. Not only did he march over to claim some, but walked right on top of the pie, claiming it all for himself (he LOVES whipped cream!). He also enjoys beef, pork, chicken, turkey, any kind of cereal, fruit, veggies, etc. etc.

The change in environment, to our busy household & large flock, seems to have done the trick. We have no idea why, or how - we'd resigned ourselves to living with a bald CAG - but whatever it is, it worked. He chatters endlessly (his repertoire seems endless) and looks fantastic. It seems like he just enjoys a busy, raucous flock to keep him engaged.

So...a change in environment might just put a stop to the chewing. Reno has gone to stay at a friend's place, several times, living among her large flock of parrots, and seemed to be enormously entertained by the pandemonium. I suspect the chewing is a response to something in Kodie's surroundings, rather than disease-related.

Take heart! Even if it is PFD, remember that some birds survive it & thrive, so there's plenty of hope.

We're all thinking about you, and praying for good news!

I'm so sorry for your awful scare and heartbreak. BUT, we don't know yet if it is PBFD or NOT! For now, just limit your contact with other bird environments and stores. Perhaps there is something much less sinister causing the symptoms. Hang on for the results, I know it can be hell waiting for it. Hoping for good news, that's all I will say for now, but my thoughts are with you and your gf.

Hey guys,

I had a missed call this morning from our vet but he left a voicemail for me on my mobile.

I am really happy to report that the PBFD tests came back as negative! Obviously we still have some investigating to do in regard to her low white blood cell count but I am so so relieved that it isn't something so sinister.

Last Wednesday we also moved her to my house and purchased her a new cage which is a good 50% bigger than her current one. She appears to be doing a lot better already!

I need to phone our vet back on Monday but I just wanted to thank you all for your kind words. I shall definitely report back Monday!

Mat

Great GREAT news, Mat! So very happy for you!

Happy New Year!!

Wonderful update, Mat! Very happy news to start the new year!

I was relatively sure that was the case here, but I'm so relieved to hear it. Good luck getting to the bottom of the problem. Looking forward to what your vet has to say when he finally get to talk to her/him. Thanks for reporting back.

What a great relief to hear. I hope they find the cause asap, and a successful remedy.

FANTASTIC!!! As most other illnesses pale in comparison, now you'll be able to work on finding what's truly ailing her, with real confidence in a happy outcome.

If that isn't a great New Year's gift, I don't know what is!!

Hello guys!

Let me first apologise for leaving this thread lapse after all of the kindess and concern that you have shown for Kodie and me. I can assure you it was not out of indifference but a genuine accident - this whole episode was responsible for quite a few additional grey hairs to the ones i Have and I am only 27!

Anyhow, allow me to continue the story....

We took her back to the vets and she was lucky enough to see Dr Lance Jepson who is quite possibly one of the most respected exotic vets in the country. He gave us a lot of advise and praised us on her diet and it was from there that we discovered that it may not be that she was not receiving enough calcium, but that it may be the case she could not absorb enough of it. One cause for this may have been a lack of sufficient UV light, and this in turn may be linked to her feather chewing.

Well not long after we decided to invest in something we had always been advised was more of an "optional added bonus" - A UV lamp. The effects have been astounding. Her mood perked up within hours. I had no idea that UVA light had an effect on a parrots vision and I have no doubt that seeing everything differently has a positive effect on her mood.

Here is a picture of my beautiful little friend today, a little over a month away from her third birthday....




Now, I am sure that the majority of the invaluable, knowledgeable members of the forum are not as ignorant to the positive effects of a UV lamp like I am, but for any beginners out there that live in a horrible climate like the UK or never take your bird outdoors, and were fooled into thinking that a lamp was an unnecessary expense, PLEASE reconsider - I have seen the effects first hand!

Hurrahhh!!!

Thank you so much for posting this. I became a rookie CAG owner in between your posts and I do NOT have a UV lamp yet. I take my Perjo (8 mo) outside every day in the summer in Ohio, but it is Ohio and from Oct to April we can very easily get little sun, and it's too cold to go outside for a parrot. We at least it is in a traditional fall/winter.

Aww thanks for the update. So glad to hear you & Kodie are doing well.

Gracie gets out daily & I saw the difference right away too!

Very cute pic! Happy almost hatch day Kodie

Thank-you, for the update!!!!

The truth of UV light is that it does not, as a result of its use, cause the body, Human or Avian, to 'develop' Vitamin D!

NOTE: An LED based UV light, maintains their ability to create a specific light spectrum over a longer time period, which will 'HELP' the body absorb Vitamin D supplied from other sources.

Side Note: UV light sources have a defined life and use beyond the 'minimum stated life' greatly reduces their effectiveness in supplying that specific spectrum. LED based are currently getting the longest life. As a very general statement (varies greatly due to manufacturer) at some point between one and two years of operation - they should be replaced. Having said that, there are no current studies that clearly define the life (ability to create a specific spectrum) of LED based bulbs. What is available projects to the long side. Commonly it takes at least 10 years to complete this type of testing.