3.5 year old sun REFUSES to entertain herself in cage, situational screamer

Honeybadger

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So we got our sun about 8 months ago, sort of a double rescue, a friend rescued her from a home about a year prior to us getting her, and didn't give her very much work (though she got plenty of people time) for the next year, and when we got her, she had stranger anxiety (she would bite at our shoulders if there was a new person in the room with us) and was a horrific screamer whenever she was in her cage. Hours upon hours of screaming, with almost never more than 10 second breaks between screams. I have very little knowledge about training birds (though I grew up with a pair of tiels that were pretty good pets) worked on educating ourselves and worked with her a lot on it, and have her stranger anxiety almost gone (she still nips pretty hard the first time someone new tries to hold her, but is miles better and much more comfortable) as well as the nonstop screaming has been whittled down to a few situations. There is one other problem that I am at a complete loss as to how I'd correct it.

She was never taught to play. She was always just smothered with affection and never learned how to entertain herself. I've spent the past few weeks teaching her how to play outside of the cage, finding the toys that she loves absolute most and even modifying them to be even -more- enticing (balsa wood plugs with treats bored into them, palm frond, and straws seem to be all she's interested in) and while she'll play for quite a while outside of the cage with me now, when I put her in her cage with her toys, she has ZERO interest in them the second she hears or sees anybody doing anything, she excitedly climbs to the corner of her cage and vibrates her wings and screams for attention.

She will very seldomly chew on her toys, takes baths a few times a week and has plenty of variety in her diet, her cage setup is changed every week or two, she has plenty of space, light, and is getting 12-14 hours of sleep every night with regular bedtimes and an occasional nap if she's particularly grumpy. 1-2 hours of people time out of her cage a day. We're more than happy to accommodate occasional screaming for the fun of it, but when she does it, it's because she is bored and wants attention, because she knows someone is active in the house and she just won't even think about the toys that she loves so greatly when she's out of the cage and sitting on my bed in front of me. Toys for her seem to be something that requires me or my girlfriend in order for them to be fun. It's more about playing with US than playing with the toys.

I have a strong feeling that the two problems are intertwined, with the screaming when people are specifically in the kitchen or making any noise at all, and inability to really have fun when she's alone in her cage.

One problem is that she's never COMPLETELY alone in the house. We have three roommates (totaling five of us) and one of us is usually home, doing something in the house, so she hears regular amounts of mild noises and just can't stand the notion that people are home and not paying absolute attention to her. But what can I do to help my sun keep herself amused when she's in her cage?
 
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jenphilly

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Oct 15, 2013
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Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
1-2 hours out of the cage is not a tremendous amount of time a day. Will she play with toys when she is out of the cage? Have you tried a playstand for her, so she can be out of the cage, but on a stand entertaining herself with toys, shreddable items, foraging items (to start, napkins with a nut)... simple items to start, but to get some interest.

When she screams for attention, you can try covering her cage. Definitely do not respond or interact with her. Talking to her trying to quiet her won't work, actually gives her what she wants - attention.

Can you provide pics of her setup? Also how large is her cage?
 
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Honeybadger

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she often times gets 2-5 hours out, it just depends on her mood and how much time we have. 1-2 is the minimum.

She will only play with toys when I'm interacting with them, holding them up for her and the like. It seems like the interaction with me is what she's getting out of the playing, not that the toys are actually the fun thing!

We have a playstand, but she has zero interest in anything when she's sitting on it. She will sit there for a few minutes (ignoring all toys or objects) and then start screaming when she's bored. We've tried using treats to teach her tricks and taught her how to use the ladder, swing, rope bridge, etc. but she just wants nothing but us when left to her own devices. She is generally fairly entertained on the bed, she loves running off and hiding, coming out, then running off once you look back at her. We use the stand all the time when we're in the kitchen, but she will just scream until someone puts her away or back on their shoulder.

We do cover her when her screaming gets to the point where I feel like she's stressing herself out, and everybody knows to never interact with her when she's screaming. She's in a room where there is a fair bit of traffic between the kitchen and the garage. Is this a good or a bad thing for fixing this problem?

her cage is 24x20x28. Ideally I'd like to get her a larger cage in the future, this one seems more appropriate for a tiel, but she really doesn't have any problems with clutter or space (she's a healthy weight according to the avian vet, just a smaller specimen) and we don't have the disposable income right now for it.

She just doesn't seem to understand the concept of foraging. is there some way to teach this as well? Hiding her favorite treat in these balsa wood plugs doesn't seem to register, she just seems surprised when she finds one while chewing or doesn't even notice them at all.
 
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jenphilly

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Oct 15, 2013
1,950
23
Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
The easiest way to start with teaching forage is to use a napkin on the table. Unfold one fold of the napkin and put her favorite treat on it. Let her see the treat and then fold the napkin back over so the treat is covered. Do not let her have the treat unless she pulls it out of the napkin. After she gets that, then go to a small paper cup (like small dixie cup) and hide the treat under the cup. Same type of thing, show her, then hide it. You should be able to get to the point where when you bring her to the table or wherever you are working, she automatically flips the napkin or turns the cup over.

From there, go with wrapping treats in wax paper or napkins kinda twisted like a tootsie roll. Don't hide them, just give them to her so she has to rip it open to get to the treat. Keep moving forward with more and more difficult ways of making her get to the treat.

Once she has those things down, create forage treat bags with brown lunch bags. Stuff with shredded paper and a bunch of treats. When you give her the first one, cut a few slits in it so its easier to get thru / to the treats.

Ivory was 4 and had no clue how to forage or be a bird. Just takes lots of time and patience.

The one comment I noticed was that when the bird is on the stand and screams someone may put her on the shoulder? That is responding to her screaming and rewarding her behavior, so basically teaching her that screaming equals going to the shoulder. Even if you do not do it all the time...

Good luck!!
 
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Honeybadger

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yeah, the only weakness I find in our raising her is a very occasional bit of inconsistency. My girlfriend can be a bit absent minded sometimes and won't realize that she's giving the bird what she wants. It's not often anymore, and 95% of the time it's only to pick her up and put her back in her cage when she starts getting bratty, but once in a while it does happen. In your mind, how harmful is a 1/20 inconsistency going to be on training? (I'm sincerely asking, not trying to imply that it's not a big deal, because I genuinely don't know) because it's not often, but it does happen with my girlfriend when she forgets.

Also, if the bird is out of her cage and starts screaming and we want to put her back in her cage, is it better to just pick her up immediately without saying anything or acknowledging her, or should we wait until she stops, or what? I've always been a little confused on the proper action there.

And thank you for the advice on foraging. I'll start working with her immediately.

I did make some progress between posting that first one and now with getting her to entertain herself for about 25 minutes while on the bed, not just scampering around like she normally does, but actually had her doing some shredding of her toys on her own. So I may be on the right track, I'm pretty certain our sun is not one of the brightest bulbs in the box. She sure is pretty, but smarts are not one of her strong suits.
 
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