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Old 06-10-2019, 10:28 PM
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Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Hi all,


I am a newbie doing research. I don't have an Eclectus yet, but am looking forward to one in the future. Most of my questions don't have a right/wrong answer. I just want to know how experienced owners think of these things. I thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts with me.


1. How often does your Eclectus parrot get hormonal? How do you cope with it?



2. Do you think adding some TOP pellets as a small part of diet is acceptable? I'm talking about sprinking a few pellets into fresh meal. The goal here is if something extreme happens (like post natural disasters when fresh food is not accessible), the bird has a plan B to fall back on to get through the days.



Here is a sample list of ingredient for your consideration.
Ingredients:
Organic alfalfa, organic hulled millet, organic barley, organic rice, organic sunflower seed hulled, organic sesame seeds unhulled, organic quinoa whole, organic pumpkin, organic buckwheat hulled, organic dandelion leaf powder, organic carrot powder, organic spinach leaf powder, organic purple dulse, kelp, organic rose hips powder, organic rose hips crushed, organic orange peel powder, organic lemon peel powder, organic rosemary whole leaf, organic cayenne ground, organic crushed red chili peppers, organic nettle leaf, cinnamon.
Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein min 13.6%, Crude Fiber max 8%, Crude Oils and Fats min 5%, Moisture max 10.3%.


3. How much do you spend on vet visits on average? I just want to get an idea.


4. Is your precious bird a one person bird?


5. What kind of cage do you have? How much did you spend on your cage? I noticed big differece in prices of cages. While I want the best for my future bird, I want to avoid rip off. This is more of a market research question than "what's an appropriate cage for Eclectus?".


6. Lastly, having an Eclectus is not easy. What makes your Eclectus parentship worth it? There's gotta be some goods that outweigh the bads. Please share with me!

Last edited by shinyuankuo; 06-10-2019 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:47 PM
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Re: Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Hello and welcome to the forums! Thank you for taking the time to do your research on such a complex and special bird. You’ve got your answers right here.

1. Eclectus Are different from most other birds. With most birds you hear about spring time hormones. Elclectus aren’t subject to annual hormones, they are capable of breeding anytime during the year. This means that they are capable of being triggered into hormonal behavior by environmental factors. A couple examples of things that would trigger/induce hormonal behavior may be high sugar content in the diet (this includes sugars from fruit, which is important part of the diet but still needs to be minimized), providing such enclosure as a happy hut or other dark location, or inappropriate petting or touching anywhere other than a head - if they even let you do THAT. That is how you cope, by avoiding it altogether.

2. TOPs pellets are great! One of the few that I would argue are safe of ekkies, along with Goldenfeast Goldn’obles, both Of which lack added vitamins (anything “enriched”). A couple may disagree with me on this, but without the added vitamins the pallets are largely OK. I will feed my boy tops exclusively for breakfast, then fresh veggies grains and fruits in the evening

3. Completely depends. I do have my vet trim Parker’s nails for me, that’s $25. A wellness check I believe is $150 annually, and throw an additional $200 or $300 on top of that if I decide I want to do bloodwork which I usually do but have skipped lately due to financial constraints. I look forward to getting back in the habit of doing the blood work again.

4. No, but he does have a favorite. You’ll find that being a one person bird doesn’t necessarily mean that they are aggressive to everybody. It could also mean they simply want to be around one person more than others. They may begrudgingly step up for strangers or otherwise hang out unenthusiastically, but they won’t be aggressive. Parker clearly prefers my partner, but I can do just about anything with him. Most males are typically not aggressive to strangers. Though my boy has a racist streak a mile long and refuses to be held by any person of color. I’m guessing it’s because he hasn’t been around many, so I need to get my neighbor over at some point to do some desensitization training.

5. Get the biggest cage you can afford, no less than 3‘ x 3‘.

6. Good question, sometimes I still wonder this myself. I love Parker very much, but he is not easy. He is WORK. We have a couple people who have diverse flocks of Multiple species of hearts whoeclectus As one of those birds. I don’t know how they do it, Parker is just on the border of what I’m willing to handle. But the times I get to just sit down with him, let’s say in the morning when I’m drinking a cup of coffee while he still half asleep, make all the stress worth it. And I’ll be perfectly frank, the entertainment value is priceless. If we have friends over and they all start to laugh, Parker will often start laughing as well, which makes everyone laugh even more Not saying he’s a showpiece, but he does make us laugh quite often. I also enjoy doing training sessions with him, especially flighted recall training. However, Parker came to me as a seasonal barberer/plucker, and tends to destroy his primary feathers and tail feathers, so for nine months out of the year he is completely flightless. But once those feathers grow in between August and December, I really really enjoy doing recall training, teaching him to fly to me.

Plus, one of the benefits of having a flightless bird is that they can go outside with you without having to wear a harness or be in a cage. Common sense here must rein, however. Can’t just stick a bird on a perch outside without supervision. There are various raptors that will pick off a parrot in no time flat. A flightless bird being taken outside without constraints needs to be on your hand in front of you at all times where you can see and monitor them. **** clipped wings are not the same as being flightless. Clipped birds can often still get some left and fly away. Birds like Parker have completely destroyed their primary feathers to the point where there is nothing left, completely precluding any possibility of flight

Last edited by chris-md; 06-10-2019 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:13 AM
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Re: Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Note: I typed this almost 2 hours ago and then fell asleep at the keyboard before pressing send, so there's a lot of overlap with Chris' post. Sorry, bro! Anyhow, here goes:

Hello! Okay, let's see...

1) Ekkies can get hormonal pretty much anytime of the year. Jolly seems to get hormonal maybe 2 or, at most, 3 times in a year. Maya, on the other hand, seems to get hormonal maybe once a year. I suspect it actually happens more for Maya, but with the exception of the very first time it happened she always handles it extremely well.

How do I cope? Well, not much coping is needed for Maya. Jolly, however, tries to mate with every adult in the house, feathered or not. But we know well the signs, now. When his beak gets significantly warmer to the touch, and turns a brighter shade of reddish-orange, we know he's about to get his Romeo on. So we make sure to be more sparing with the touching. We never touch his back or under his wings, as these are always hormonal triggers, but when he's in the mood we even cut back on the "safer" regions. The hormonal response is natural, so it's up to us to adjust our behavior appropriately.

Also, I make sure to cut down their light hours a bit, as well as cutting down on sugary and fatty foods.

2) I don't feed any pellets, but given that Tops, if I recall correctly, doesn't load their pellets with a bunch of supplements, that brand would seem a better bet than most.

3) Whew... vet visit costs. There is a single tear trailing down my cheek as I consider your question. Sigh... Well, given that I usually go with two birds, I spend anywhere from $300 - $800 for a visit. $800 is more for when there is an issue, though. But I always have them thoroughly checked, so the bill tends to be a bit on the higher end.

4) Maya is a one-person bird, though I do hope to change that eventually. But Jolly is very much a family bird. I'm his favorite, but he also loves my wife and sometimes enjoys hanging out with my sons.

5) Unfortunately I don't remember the brand names. I've had these cages for quite some time now. Each one cost several hundred dollars, though. And both were advertised as macaw-sized cages.

6) Ekkies are not for everyone, but if you're the right person for them they are the most amazing birds. They are loving, massively intelligent, and possessed of the craziest senses of humor. Honestly, I couldn't picture my household without them.

What makes them worth it? Here are a few glimpses...

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Old 06-11-2019, 11:22 AM
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Re: Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Quote:
1. How often does your Eclectus parrot get hormonal? How do you cope with it?
Our little guy is only 19 months old, but we're hitting his terrible twos (or puberty). Overnight he changed from polite, obedient boy to a territorial guy who forgets himself sometimes. I don't hold it against him - you can tell he's still a good boy when he's not all riled up. We just cut down on his fruits, increase his sleep hours, and exercise him more (which I do feel is tricky when he's not listening). But those things do help balance him out, and we try to give him space as well. We'll see how he matures though..

Quote:
2. Do you think adding some TOP pellets as a small part of diet is acceptable? I'm talking about sprinking a few pellets into fresh meal. The goal here is if something extreme happens (like post natural disasters when fresh food is not accessible), the bird has a plan B to fall back on to get through the days.
They say TOPs is the most likely of pellets to be ok with ekkies, but Cairo toe-taps on them. I used to put them in his foraging toys, but even then he started toe-tapping. Our vet does think he's very sensitive. So if your little one can handle it without adverse effects, all the better for you as a back-up!

Quote:
3. How much do you spend on vet visits on average? I just want to get an idea.
Your vet visit costs will depend on where you live first and foremost. Even within countries there can be a difference. Just be sure to get an avian vet (certified even better). And like the others mentioned, it really depends on what your vet visit entails. I spent about 1k USD for Cairo's hospitalisation when he was seriously ill. We've never been in for just a regular check-up with our avian vet (I'm not counting the first vet who didn't even do anything like weigh him). Our visits are normally at least 100-300 (SGD, so maybe 75-250 USD? been a while since I converted), depending on his symptoms and tests.

Quote:
4. Is your precious bird a one person bird?
Right now Cairo goes to my partner and I for different reasons. My partner is the chill-out guy Cairo kisses and plays hide-and-seek with. I'm the source of comfort and fun training sessions. I've worked with Cairo on tricks, harness, recall, and handling, so he's more responsive to me and comes to me when he's feeling nervous. But he follows my partner - if my partner's awake, Cairo will try to stay awake; if my partner's asleep, Cairo will go to sleep.

We have worked at lot at getting him to be ok around strangers. We regularly bring him out with his harness, so that passing strangers don't spook him. I mean, like every other day we try to bring him out.

Quote:
5. What kind of cage do you have? How much did you spend on your cage? I noticed big differece in prices of cages. While I want the best for my future bird, I want to avoid rip off. This is more of a market research question than "what's an appropriate cage for Eclectus?".
I've posted about our cage before. We've an Avian Adventures Hacienda. This is our current setup: https://imgur.com/a/LJxei9u

And here's a photo of when we first got it:


We did get it... on sale? Your username leads to me be more open - we got it off Taobao lah

Quote:
6. Lastly, having an Eclectus is not easy. What makes your Eclectus parentship worth it? There's gotta be some goods that outweigh the bads. Please share with me!
You can check through my thread history, but one of the highlights is definitely his boundless enthusiasm and cheeky cleverness. Even when he's naughty, the way he runs off evilly laughing brings me joy. When he's hormonal, he still tries to keep himself in check - he started off not biting but lunging and gently putting his beak on me. It was only as the season progressed and the hormonal agitation got worse that he started applying actual pressure.

And the eagerness of him wanting to learn new things, and seeing the moment it clicks in his head, he gets so excited that he starts running around and trying to initiate the new trick himself. Then his sheer love of flying... it's amazing and a wonder to see. We'd go through any length to keep him happy and healthy.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:35 PM
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Re: Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Are you sure it’s the TOPs? Yours would be the first Ekkie I’ve known to toe tap on it. I’m in the middle of a gradual elimination diet to determine Parker’s toe tapping trigger, and he’s currently on exclusively tops for a couple days to rule it out. If you haven’t done something similar, I’d recommend doing so. Particularly because Interactions amongst food can also trigger it: Stephen found that a combination of...oh I forget, I’ll let him state, something like blueberries and strawberries together trigger toe tapping in one of his.

If TOPS is involved, It’s entirely possible it’s not JUST the tops but interactions with another food. TOPs is not nutrient dense, I don’t see a reason it should trigger toe tapping or wing flipping.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:50 PM
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Re: Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Quote: Originally Posted by chris-md View Post
Are you sure itís the TOPs? Yours would be the first Ekkie Iíve known to toe tap on it. Iím in the middle of a gradual elimination diet to determine Parkerís toe tapping trigger, and heís currently on exclusively tops for a couple days to rule it out. If you havenít done something similar, Iíd recommend doing so. Particularly because Interactions amongst food can also trigger it: Stephen found that a combination of...oh I forget, Iíll let him state, something like blueberries and strawberries together trigger toe tapping in one of his.

If TOPS is involved, Itís entirely possible itís not JUST the tops but interactions with another food. TOPs is not nutrient dense, I donít see a reason it should trigger toe tapping or wing flipping.
It's possible that it's just an interaction. I haven't changed Cairo's diet - just put TOPs in his foraging toys. I tried to test it as well by putting TOPs in a bowl for a couple of days in addition to his meals, and it led to involuntary kicking. I'm hesitant to eliminate any ingredients from his chop because it's hard for me to find verified safe ingredients since I've more Asian veggies (not reported as safe or unsafe) than Western ones (plethora of lists detailing if safe or not).

Right now it's just me weighing his limited chop ingredient list versus TOPs, so his chops wins until I can confirm more safe Asian veggies. Once I can make sure his chop can afford to drop an ingredient or two without losing a good vitamin source, I'll try TOPs again. I desperately want him to have an alternative food source that can be in foraging toys and can be left out for longer periods of time.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:30 PM
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Re: Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Quote: Originally Posted by chris-md View Post

1. Eclectus Are different from most other birds. With most birds you hear about spring time hormones. Elclectus arenít subject to annual hormones, they are capable of breeding anytime during the year. This means that they are capable of being triggered into hormonal behavior by environmental factors.

Yes, this is exactly why I wonder how often and how to deal with hormones. I've read else where that once they start, they go 24/7 365 days a year. I've also read some people say their bird gives very minimal trouble. I guess it just depends on the bird and the surrounding environment.


Quote: Originally Posted by chris-md View Post
Though my boy has a racist streak a mile long and refuses to be held by any person of color. Iím guessing itís because he hasnít been around many, so I need to get my neighbor over at some point to do some desensitization training.

Your bird will hate me then. I can offer myself as desensitization target.


Quote: Originally Posted by chris-md View Post
Get the biggest cage you can afford, no less than 3Ď x 3Ď.

I want to pick the appropriate cage at the appropriate price. I was just suprised to see some cage prices at $2800...It is a big cage, but I could get an aviary at that price!



Quote: Originally Posted by chris-md View Post
6. And Iíll be perfectly frank, the entertainment value is priceless. If we have friends over and they all start to laugh, Parker will often start laughing as well, which makes everyone laugh even more Not saying heís a showpiece, but he does make us laugh quite often.

I appreciate your answer. I know entertainment not the reason to get a bird for, but it's definitely a plus. After all, we want to make the bird a part of our social life.



Thank you for your responses.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:49 PM
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Re: Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Quote: Originally Posted by Anansi View Post

When his beak gets significantly warmer to the touch, and turns a brighter shade of reddish-orange, we know he's about to get his Romeo on.

Wow! These are amazing observations! Although every bird might differ a little in terms of how they show signs, this is a good tip to keep in mind.


Quote: Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
2) I don't feed any pellets, but given that Tops, if I recall correctly, doesn't load their pellets with a bunch of supplements, that brand would seem a better bet than most.

I realize pellets are not optimal, and I might be thinking WAY far ahead for something that might not even happen. It's just through personal experience that I realize life is full of suprises. I remember some bird youtubers calling help for parrots after Hurrican Harvey. In that case, it's better than nothing.


The planner in me might be overthinking. :P



Quote: Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
4) Maya is a one-person bird, though I do hope to change that eventually. But Jolly is very much a family bird. I'm his favorite, but he also loves my wife and sometimes enjoys hanging out with my sons.
Could I also ask how your birds interact with each other? Are they not interested in each other? In your environment, how do you prevent breeding?



Quote: Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
5) Unfortunately I don't remember the brand names. I've had these cages for quite some time now. Each one cost several hundred dollars, though. And both were advertised as macaw-sized cages.

I was just shocked last night seeing a bigger cage priced at $2800. Several hundred dollars is closer to my expectation.


I can totally get an aviary for $3000 bucks!





Your birds are amazing! Those are really cool tricks! I love that play gym you have in the living room, too! Thank you for sharing.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:00 PM
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Re: Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Quote:
They say TOPs is the most likely of pellets to be ok with ekkies, but Cairo toe-taps on them. I used to put them in his foraging toys, but even then he started toe-tapping. Our vet does think he's very sensitive. So if your little one can handle it without adverse effects, all the better for you as a back-up!

I realize pellets are not optimal. I'm just thinking WAY far ahead and wants to be prepared for the unexpected. Thank you for sharing how your bird reacts to pellets. I will at least give it a try. If the bird reacts negatively, I can stop feeding pellets completely.


Quote:
Right now Cairo goes to my partner and I for different reasons. My partner is the chill-out guy Cairo kisses and plays hide-and-seek with. I'm the source of comfort and fun training sessions. I've worked with Cairo on tricks, harness, recall, and handling, so he's more responsive to me and comes to me when he's feeling nervous. But he follows my partner - if my partner's awake, Cairo will try to stay awake; if my partner's asleep, Cairo will go to sleep.

I really hope my future bird can be a family bird, too. I know it depends on the bird and the socialization. It's just great to know that it can be done.



Quote:
I've posted about our cage before. We've an Avian Adventures Hacienda. This is our current setup: https://imgur.com/a/LJxei9u

We did get it... on sale? Your username leads to me be more open - we got it off Taobao lah

LOL
Yes, you've guessed right. I know exactly what you mean by Taobao. I have never thought about it! I have lived in the US for too long lah!


BTW...I was just sharing your bird's name with my husband the other day. Love that 菜肉 translation!


Thanks for sharing!
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:16 PM
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Re: Few questions for Eclectus owners - newbie doing research

Anansi/Stephen always has the best insights - I consider him a dear friend (as much as can be having never met the guy) but he’s also got the biggest fan in me

Regarding hormones, the disparity you hear is down to 1) bird age, and 2) how people care. Hormones come in two flavors: puberty, and maturity (post puberty, the annual stuff, as it were).

Birds do experience puberty differently. Some get smacked upside the head by it, other breeze by it with hardly a change at all. This is purely down to the individual.

The mature hormones (annual stuff, which again isn’t annual in ekkies), you’ll hear different stories for three reasons;

1) care - people simply don’t understand this stuff. They will be petting their bird in all sorts of ways, feeding the bird junk food or high sugar diets. Most are in fact well meaning, just ignorant of proper care. Not to mention many not actually knowing what hormones looks like. Even I sometimes have to question if Parker’s occasional aggressive behavior is hormonal or behavioral based. Not always easy to tell. And let’s be honest, science still hasn’t fully caught up with the eclectus yet. There’s still a lot about their optimal care we don’t know yet. So even those know know, don’t alwyas know.

2) individuality - like puberty, some are simply more easily triggered.

3) sex - females I believe err even more on the hormonal side than boys. Girls just SEE a dark place (under the couch, in the closet, a box) are thrown into a nesting frenzy. Boys tend to be easier to control hormonally speaking.

Natural variation in ALL these aspects is to be expected, of course.

Last edited by chris-md; 06-11-2019 at 11:20 PM.
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