Finding local parrot owners who fly their birds

Hello,

I live in a rural area in the Sierra Nevada foothills in NorCal. There aren't many parronts up here, let alone parronts interested in flying their birds on a harness. I think what the Kizzy bird really needs to complete her harness training is to see why I'm asking her to do something so unnatural. If she could observe other birds flying in their harnesses, it would probably help.

I think I will try playing videos for her. She seems to understand she's a bird, despite being pulled at a very young age. Maybe watching a lot of harness videos will make her understand what I want from her and what she will get to do once she will allow me to put her in the harness. A first-hand exhibition would be better, provided the parronts haven't acquired new birds in the recent past.

Nice idea!

How is it going? Is she finally in one, and all buckled up?

wrench13 said:

How is it going? Is she finally in one, and all buckled up?

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I bit the bullet and let her bite me a bit to get it on, but yes, we went out today. As soon as it was on, I had her out the door. She was suddenly so meek. Big stuff inside; terrified two feet out the door.

She spent a lot of time sitting behind my head at first. I came in once to get her water bottle mister (it was hot out there) and once to find my keys (couldn't find them). I walked around the neighborhood, getting her used to seeing various people and pets (luckily the dogs were on leashes). One little toddler kept getting too close and couldn't understand that Kizzy was afraid. I tried asking the little girl if she'd ever been afraid, but that got me nowhere. When I finally got the kid to back off, she asked me, "Why do you have her?" I replied (honestly), "Because I'm crazy." XD

Kizzy finally loosened up while meeting my neighbor, who she has seen a couple of times before. She freaked out once and started to fly off, but came back when I called and landed on my neighbor's head. She went to my neighbor several times, twice by landing on her head. I'm trying to get her to go to the shoulder instead, but she has a thing for the top of people's heads. She got rewarded for it the other day when she found a bobby pin in my mom's hair and took off with it. She's into birdy archaeology, I guess.

I knew she'd get pissy when we went back into her territory, so I pulled all the slack through one half of the buckle just before going in. The other half would have held her in a pinch. Yes, she was pissy, but taking it off is easier than putting it on. I got it off her wings and gave the "off" command for the headstall when it was ready and she's fine...in the bathroom doing her repertoire, which means checking on her every couple of minutes. She's never flown to anyplace but the shower curtain, but if she's quiet for too long, I need to see what's up.

Next time I go to put her harness on, I'll know whether this set me back or not. If she seems like she wants to train one more time tonight, I might try tonight. If she isn't in the mood, I'll skip it.

YEAH!!! Hurrah ! Huzzahhh! Kizzie is the GIRL! Only difference I do when taking it off is to loosen up both side of the wing strap.
If someone will help you to take a video of putting the harness on Kizzie and taking it off, I will do the same today, we could post it on a thread dedicated to getting these contraptions on. Once you see it done realistically ( ie maybe a bite or 2) folk can see its not that difficult .

wrench13 said:

YEAH!!! Hurrah ! Huzzahhh! Kizzie is the GIRL! Only difference I do when taking it off is to loosen up both side of the wing strap.
If someone will help you to take a video of putting the harness on Kizzie and taking it off, I will do the same today, we could post it on a thread dedicated to getting these contraptions on. Once you see it done realistically ( ie maybe a bite or 2) folk can see its not that difficult .

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As I suspected, actually wearing the harness set Kizzy back a bit, so we went back to basic desensitization. I did get the head loop on her a few times. The first time, she panicked and tried to fly away, which was a disaster because she got yanked down by the harness. Ouch!

I spent a lot of time just feeding her treats next to the harness, then through the headstall. I draped it over her. She didn't like the weight, so I held it over her and treated her. Then I wrapped a loop of the strap over her neck and asked her to accept the weight while I treated. She did really well after her initial reticence.

I had another training session later where I managed to get the headstall on and off a few times. I want her to know that harness training at this stage doesn't mean, "Yes, you're definitely going in the harness!" It means, "Let's see what Kizzy will accept without ripping my fingers apart, shall we?"

She doesn't see the harness as neutral anymore, though, which is a shame. At least she isn't flying away in fear. Well, she tried that once, but it didn't work out well for her. Poor little girl. Luckily, she calmed down and let me desensitize her a bit.

Tomorrow, I will see how far she'll let me go. I doubt I'll get it all the way on tomorrow, but I should try to get her to where she was before I simply strapped it on her. At some point, we need to get the whole thing on with as few nips and escape attempts as possible.

She hates the feel of it on her body. That's the main problem. Even before I made her wear it, she didn't like having a wing cinched into that contraption, so I figured I might as well piss her off all the way and put it on her.

I wonder if she'd be more or less cooperative in a room she doesn't know well? Hard to say. I'll just keep working with her. Amazons can be touchy about being touched.

I've always wanted to try Matisse on a harness, but I live in Florida and the area I live in we have a lot of hawks. So I can imagine with you in California there are tons of Hawks and eagles. I'm just curious if you have a fear of that, and what your game plan is. Are you just going to have a look out? Or how would you handle that? I'm asking because it's something I've always been curious about and that's the only thing stopping me from bringing him outside in a harness on my shoulder even, let alone flying him.

RisingSun said:

I've always wanted to try Matisse on a harness, but I live in Florida and the area I live in we have a lot of hawks. So I can imagine with you in California there are tons of Hawks and eagles. I'm just curious if you have a fear of that, and what your game plan is. Are you just going to have a look out? Or how would you handle that? I'm asking because it's something I've always been curious about and that's the only thing stopping me from bringing him outside in a harness on my shoulder even, let alone flying him.

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Yes, we absolutely have tons of hawks around here. The ones that could be a problem are redtails, red shoulders and Cooper's. Maybe sharp-shins, but they're fairly small and might not want to take on a parrot. I think she'll be safe from kestrels and Merlins because they're tiny.

Kizzy isn't quite to the point where she can fly outside, so I still have time to think about it. I do have some ideas already.

1) Luckily, I live right next to one of the coolest playgrounds for kids. If there aren't too many kids around, I would like to teach Kizzy how to fly down from various heights and back up. I have a feeling birds of prey avoid the playground. Too many yelling, screaming kids. XD

2) Right next to the playground is a fairly open area with bare trees that might give me time to spot a potential predator.

3) I might see if the local ball park would allow me to fly her there using lawn perches. The ball park is surrounded by roads on two sides and huge parking lots, so there isn't much cover for a hawk.

4) Perhaps I could use ball fields at schools when the kids aren't using them. They might be large enough to dissuade potential predators.

Ideally, I'll bring a lookout or even enlist help from someone who seems normal. If I can't find someone, I'll keep the flights short.

So far that's my plan. If anyone wants to make suggestions, that would be cool.

Wow, thank you for the reply! Those seem like some reasonable solutions. Yeah, we have a lot of Red Shoulders in my area as well. I don't think I would ever fly Matisse because he's a lazy chunk who prefers to climb and walk, and be carried. However we "fly" indoors. I put him on my finger and run back-and-forth through the house and he flap his wings and pretends he's flying. He gets a kick out of it plus a decent work out for us both.

I would love to be able to do that outside. Or take him on hikes with me, but there are too many hidden dangers with hiking. So I'm looking into getting one of those mesh backpacks. But when I first heard of harnessing it was a dream until I started thinking of all the dangers and it kind of killed it for me but it seems that many people are successful doing it in all different places.

Just keep a sharp eye out, be under cover, like trees, be around alots of people like a park. Harness training is a long process ( for most parrots) of desensitizing your parrot to the weight of the harness and calmly putting his head thru the head loop. We practive just puttinh his head thru and laying the harness over the outside of his body. Even thugh Salty gets his on pretty calmly ( see my post on this), it took almost a year desensitizing him.

RisingSun said:

Wow, thank you for the reply! Those seem like some reasonable solutions. Yeah, we have a lot of Red Shoulders in my area as well. I don't think I would ever fly Matisse because he's a lazy chunk who prefers to climb and walk, and be carried. However we "fly" indoors. I put him on my finger and run back-and-forth through the house and he flap his wings and pretends he's flying. He gets a kick out of it plus a decent work out for us both.

I would love to be able to do that outside. Or take him on hikes with me, but there are too many hidden dangers with hiking. So I'm looking into getting one of those mesh backpacks. But when I first heard of harnessing it was a dream until I started thinking of all the dangers and it kind of killed it for me but it seems that many people are successful doing it in all different places.

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I have a Pak-o-Bird, too. I like it very much, but there's one thing I didn't think about because when I have a bird in a traditional carrier I'm constantly checking on it. Birds overheat more quickly than do humans. If Kizzy's on my back, I can't see how she's doing. I don't know if she ever even started panting, but her feet were extremely warm by the time I got home. Now I know to check her often in warm weather and bring my spray bottle. I may try wearing the pack on my front or carrying it with the shoulder strap so I can monitor her more fully.

I understand being afraid of hawks. I used to worry about my Gabby bird and he was clipped. An aviculturist friend of mine found two fledgling Cooper's hawks clinging to her aviary in a desperate attempt to get at her birds. They were starving to death, so they were risking everything to get at the birds inside. She managed to net and rehab them (against the law here, but she passed away from cancer several years ago). A starving hawk might not care if you're standing right there. So yes, scary. However, these hawks knew about the aviary because it was in their territory. It didn't move.

If I use a human place bustling with activity with humans standing very close, it should dissuade non-starving hawks. I might have to be extra careful during the time of year young hawks start life on their own (which I'll have to Google). So far, I think the benefits of allowing flight will outweigh the risks. I have time to change my mind because Kizzy still isn't used to wearing a harness. I will get an extension when she's ready for one.

RisingSun said:

I don't think I would ever fly Matisse because he's a lazy chunk who prefers to climb and walk, and be carried. However we "fly" indoors. I put him on my finger and run back-and-forth through the house and he flap his wings and pretends he's flying. He gets a kick out of it plus a decent work out for us both.

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It sounds like a reasonable solution. I do have a question about Matisse.

First of all, this isn't a clipped vs. flighted argument. I think there are legitimate reasons for clipping a bird and the fact that Kizzy is flighted sometimes scares me to death. For her, I believe it's a "quality of life" trade-off if her human can keep her safe. I worry about that a lot, but she loves to fly. I'm convinced allowing her to come of age in a more natural way made her smarter and better-adjusted, but I worry that some mistake on my part will cause injury.

My first Amazon parrot, Gabby, was clipped as a baby. He did some "flying" when he was young, but kept crashing into walls and landing on things that couldn't support his weight. After he landed on a heavy trophy that fell on top of him, I decided he would be a clipped bird. Of course, that was thirty years ago when the prevailing wisdom was to keep all birds clipped. Also, Gabby did not fledge when he was supposed to. Fledglings are very light and their bones are flexible to prevent injury. Also, their minds are primed for learning how to fly, so if you want a flighted bird, it's much better to let them do it when they are best prepared.

After a point, Gabby never even tried to fly, even with unclipped wings.

Was Matisse allowed to fledge? If not, that may be why he isn't motivated to fly. I'm just curious if this could be the case with most or all birds whose wings were clipped as babies.

It may be the case with many birds, but not all. I sense that larger parrots have trouble learning to fly if they were clipped before fledging, but it's not the case for small birds. Ducky was clipped as a baby, and it was a pretty severe clip. He could not fly at all while he was clipped. Now he is an excellent flyer and never crashes into things. He loves to fly and is not reluctant at all. Today I upstairs with him trying to encourage him to take a bath, he decided he didn't want to and zoomed downstairs. He was just flying around down there for a while before he saw me and came right back up to me. Oh, the joy of letting birds be birds and do what they were meant to do!