Cites?????

okay... So I am super confused. Possible bird I'm looking at getting is on the CITES list and when looking up info on CITES in the UK all I got was a headache. Does anyone here understand how it works and possibly be able to help me figure it out?

I was under the impression that each registered bird on the list has a certificate which needed to stay with the bird, but some info I have read talks about new owners having to register or something? Super confused

Aaaaa, the joys of government paperwork and double speak!

North America is at least three to five years behind Europe in setting CITES into place.

The foundation (birth) document is the starting point. At the hatching of the CITES's controlled parrot, a Birth Document is provided, much the same as a Birth Certificate for a Human. That document has required information that the Breeder needs to complete as part of the document. As each new owner (buyer), including reseller, become involves, they must be listed on this document and this continues until the death of the Parrot. The register part is more specific to the Nation you live and their level of enacting CITES. At its full enactment, each owner from birth to death is recorded. Whether that is completed with local, regional or national government is likely different Country to Country.

What is important is that with in days of you obtaining your Parrot and its paperwork, you see your CAV (Certified Avian Vet) and provide them the document for them to make a copy. As I understand it, a CAV cannot provide medical care unless the Parrot has the proper documentation.

Start with the Breeder and/or Reseller, and assure that your Parrot will have a properly completed Birth Document at meets CITES requirements. Any push back in you getting that documentation should have you running for the door! Since Breeders and Resellers tend to go out of business, you become responsible if your Parrot does not have proper documents! You could be labeled a Black Marketer!

European Communities Parrot Species

Any good?

Sailboat to the rescue again haha! they have stated they provide the paperwork including CITES certificate, although not sure how our government handles registration. I think a call to the vet I plan on using is in order

Plumsmum, it would be one of those Blue Throated Conures I'd be going for I think, and they're definitely appendix A of CITES, just not sure how you go about the paperwork involved

Try the DEFRA animal licensing website

so taking a look it does seem that you only need to apply if you're selling on the bird or importing/exporting. But you need to keep the paperwork you're given to keep a record of owners and vets. I am going to give the vet a call tomorrow to check that just to be safe. I actually found a clip of their contact calls and they are somehow quieter/more pleasant to hear than green cheeks! These crazy looking creatures are making a strong case right now

LordTriggs said:

so taking a look it does seem that you only need to apply if you're selling on the bird or importing/exporting. But you need to keep the paperwork you're given to keep a record of owners and vets. I am going to give the vet a call tomorrow to check that just to be safe. I actually found a clip of their contact calls and they are somehow quieter/more pleasant to hear than green cheeks! These crazy looking creatures are making a strong case right now

Click to expand...

So it would be generated by the breeder and then passed to you and so forth? Bit like a birdy passport.

I am starting to wonder if it may not be a bad idea to get Kiwi microchipped now since we have no record at all of where he came from. I know BFA's aren't endangered yet, but the way the world is going, they could be soon and as a 19 y/o multi-prior home rescue with no band, who knows his past or where he hatched.

Kiwibird said:

I am starting to wonder if it may not be a bad idea to get Kiwi microchipped now since we have no record at all of where he came from. I know BFA's aren't endangered yet, but the way the world is going, they could be soon and as a 19 y/o multi-prior home rescue with no band, who knows his past or where he hatched.

Click to expand...

Really good idea, pleased I did as Plums band needed to be cut off. Not fool proof if lost or stolen as you are relying on people taking the bird to be scanned but still offers proof if required at any time.

I would advise getting a microchip kiwibird. I plan on doing so with any future pets I get. I do hope they get a GPS based microchip in the future. Would be the best thing ever

plumsmum2005 said:

LordTriggs said:

so taking a look it does seem that you only need to apply if you're selling on the bird or importing/exporting. But you need to keep the paperwork you're given to keep a record of owners and vets. I am going to give the vet a call tomorrow to check that just to be safe. I actually found a clip of their contact calls and they are somehow quieter/more pleasant to hear than green cheeks! These crazy looking creatures are making a strong case right now

Click to expand...

So it would be generated by the breeder and then passed to you and so forth? Bit like a birdy passport.

Click to expand...

yeah, it feels like that. But some clarification from a professional wouldn't hurt

LordTriggs said:

I would advise getting a microchip kiwibird. I plan on doing so with any future pets I get. I do hope they get a GPS based microchip in the future. Would be the best thing ever

Click to expand...

GPS based would be difficult in the foreseeable future based on the need of the Micro Chip to be 'active' whereas today, it replies only when scanned. Think batteries!

The Amazona Family is only a few years away from being fully included in CITES.

CITES in North America is being rolled out slowly and there is much discussion as to who and how to enact it region by region. That said, over this next year starting in 2017 into 2018, the Certified Avian Vet Clinics are including a picture of their Avian Clients and looking into 2019 and 2020 there is plans for including the Micro Chip number as part of the provided documentation.

This page has some information and links as well.
Cites Background

And in addition to things like microchipping, consider DNA banking as another way to prove ownership which is listed at the bottom of this page.
Service Pricing
I find the banking service to be exceptionally useful for birds who may be too small for microchips, though I've found one company that makes even smaller microchips now, but always check with your vet about what they use.
Microchip ID Solutions - the smallest pet identification microchip

Aquila said:

This page has some information and links as well.
Cites Background

And in addition to things like microchipping, consider DNA banking as another way to prove ownership which is listed at the bottom of this page.
Service Pricing
I find the banking service to be exceptionally useful for birds who may be too small for microchips, though I've found one company that makes even smaller microchips now, but always check with your vet about what they use.
Microchip ID Solutions - the smallest pet identification microchip

Click to expand...

Really like the idea of DNA banking as proof of ownership! They just take blood right? My husband is pretty adamant against microchipping, which is why Kiwi hasn't been yet. He's concerned about long term impacts since it is a relatively new technology. Just because something appears safe now doesn't necessarily mean there won't be unforeseen health consequences years/decades down the line in a creature with such an incredibly long lifespan.

Anyone know how one cross-references a DNA file with a found Parrot? Who covers the cost of DNA'ing the found Parrot and completing the comparison?

Sounds like a great tool when a large segment of the companion Parrot population has DNA profiles. The thrust of knowledge that kind of bank would provide the Avian Science /Medical World would be huge!!!

Kiwibird said:

Aquila said:

This page has some information and links as well.
Cites Background

And in addition to things like microchipping, consider DNA banking as another way to prove ownership which is listed at the bottom of this page.
Service Pricing
I find the banking service to be exceptionally useful for birds who may be too small for microchips, though I've found one company that makes even smaller microchips now, but always check with your vet about what they use.
Microchip ID Solutions - the smallest pet identification microchip

Click to expand...

Really like the idea of DNA banking as proof of ownership! They just take blood right? My husband is pretty adamant against microchipping, which is why Kiwi hasn't been yet. He's concerned about long term impacts since it is a relatively new technology. Just because something appears safe now doesn't necessarily mean there won't be unforeseen health consequences years/decades down the line in a creature with such an incredibly long lifespan.

Click to expand...

I believe you can do blood or feathers for it, but I think it depends on which testing, I would assume either for the DNA banking service.

SailBoat said:

Anyone know how one cross-references a DNA file with a found Parrot? Who covers the cost of DNA'ing the found Parrot and completing the comparison?

Sounds like a great tool when a large segment of the companion Parrot population has DNA profiles. The thrust of knowledge that kind of bank would provide the Avian Science /Medical World would be huge!!!

Click to expand...

I'm not sure how the information is provided, I'm assuming just cross checking with an additional sample. But I agree it would be great to have an "ancestry DNA" type service for the avian community, they have similar but very basic services for dogs but I'm not sure of the logistics of dealing with so many different species.

Aquila said:

Kiwibird said:

Aquila said:

Microchip ID Solutions - the smallest pet identification microchip

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

SailBoat said:

Anyone know how one cross-references a DNA file with a found Parrot? Who covers the cost of DNA'ing the found Parrot and completing the comparison?

Sounds like a great tool when a large segment of the companion Parrot population has DNA profiles. The thrust of knowledge that kind of bank would provide the Avian Science /Medical World would be huge!!!

Click to expand...

I'm not sure how the information is provided, I'm assuming just cross checking with an additional sample. But I agree it would be great to have an "ancestry DNA" type service for the avian community, they have similar but very basic services for dogs but I'm not sure of the logistics of dealing with so many different species.

Click to expand...

I'm not that convinced that distance between the avian species is all that great. Thinking more like groupings with the widest separations in those groups who have been separated for very long period on time (example: islands).

SailBoat said:

Aquila said:

SailBoat said:

Anyone know how one cross-references a DNA file with a found Parrot? Who covers the cost of DNA'ing the found Parrot and completing the comparison?

Sounds like a great tool when a large segment of the companion Parrot population has DNA profiles. The thrust of knowledge that kind of bank would provide the Avian Science /Medical World would be huge!!!

Click to expand...

I'm not sure how the information is provided, I'm assuming just cross checking with an additional sample. But I agree it would be great to have an "ancestry DNA" type service for the avian community, they have similar but very basic services for dogs but I'm not sure of the logistics of dealing with so many different species.

Click to expand...

I'm not that convinced that distance between the avian species is all that great. Thinking more like groupings with the widest separations in those groups who have been separated for very long period on time (example: islands).

Click to expand...

Probably not, but I think sample sizes would be an issue to develop the most accurate DNA profile in terms of species, as well as not having full knowledge of species and subspecies being crossed in the past. Would a DNA profile be accurate to determine A. a. aestiva fromA. a. xanthopteryx? They're treated as separate species but interbreed in the wild, and how many people would have examples of each to provide the most accurate profile when breeding stock is so far removed from the native species? Or even different macaws that are different sizes within species.

I'm not knowledgeable enough in that area to say how viable it would be at least on a consumer level, but I do think it's something worth exploring in the scientific and conservationist level.

so I just got off the phone with the vet and... Good news! All I need is for the bird to be rung, to come with CITES registration and the Article 10 certificate. I would only need to apply if taking it out of the country, selling, breeding or putting it into a show

They're also egging me on to get the blue throat conure haha! They're super interested to meet one. Not exactly common