Anyone raise a male DYH that did not become aggressive?

[beachdreamer]

I'm aware of all the cautions about getting a male amazon if it's one of the hot 3 but I've also read a lot of articles about things that can be done to help with the hormonal phase. I've got an opportunity to get a hand reared DYH that's about 4 months old but it's a male. Before I even considered going down that road, I wanted to see if there was anyone that had a hand-reared DYH male that never became extremely aggressive during puberty.

 

[chris-md]

Very good questions:

1) the degree to which a bird becomes aggressive during puberty will vary from one individual to another. It’s not a “how they were raised” situation, it’s an individual birds genetic predisposition. Similar to how human males have varying degrees of testosterone from one person to the next. You can’t get around it.

2) male or female, expect aggression during puberty. There may be SOME degrees of variation between sexed, but there’s just as much overlap. Be happy if you wind up with one who doesn’t get very aggressive when hormonal, but don’t let that be a baseline.

Here’s my advice: If in your heart you want a DYHA, and you have the opportunity to get one, dont take sex into consideration. Take it.

don’t overthink the sex thing. Hormonal aggression is always a craps shoot you can’t really account for unless your talking eclectus. Too much overlap between the sexes owning to individual bird genetics. Expect hormonal aggression and you won’t be disappointed or surprised when it shows up.

 

[noodles123]

Agreed that it can and does happen in both sexes--you can almost be certain of an increase in aggression around that time, in 99.9% of cases and species.( I would expect it--to some extent--either way BUT I do think that there ARE things you can do to make it LESS severe).Mitigating these environmental triggers does NOT mean that puberty will be easy for either sex, because, even in a perfect situation, you will see changes/new aggression to some extent...BUT controlling your behavior and the environment CAN reduce behavioral issues to a degree (even if they are still very obvious with controls in place.


Controlling the following factors can make puberty much more bearable than it would have been otherwise (even if it still seems bad, it could be much worse) BUT Amazons WILL be Amazons:

no boxes, huts, tents, low shelves, under furniture, no blankets, no pillows, no bedding...no nooks...NO SHADOWY SPACES (not even remotely...)

10-12 hours of sleep on a nightly schedule (like a kid)- shoot for 12 quality hours of sleep (in a setting that is dark and conducive to sleep)

No cuddles, no excessive touching, no stroking like you would a cat or a dog. PET ON THE HEAD AND NECK ONLY!

Avoid warm/mushy foods during times of hormones

DO NOT get them used to unsustainable behaviors as babies that will be inappropriate when they are adults---they will not understand why you have cut them off it you suddenly change your relationship when they are sexually mature.

Other birds can be a trigger as well.....ESPECIALLY those of the opposite sex, but not limited to those of the opposite sex...heck- they don't even have to be the same sex or species.

Provide LOTS of enrichment activities and make sure that your bird is socialized with lots of people (who also follow the rules above)....and make sure your bird's cage is never even partially covered during the day (except for extremely sick birds who may need a darker environment to stay calm etc)

Just like a teen who has hormonal surges and mood-swings, a bird will experience similar ups and downs during puberty and NO adult bird is the same as its baby self (just like no adult human is the same as its baby self). My whole point here is that lots of people DO inadvertently make adult life with their bird worse by failing to recognize hormonal triggers (which quite literally, alter their birds hormonal production and logic) BUT, even in the most controlled/perfect home, you could still see some aggression, so you have to be prepared for that if you adopt a larger bird...

Basically, if an aggressive Amazon (at puberty) would cause you to re-think or re-home, then don't take that plunge because there is really no way of knowing...you can only do the best you can to try and control some of the aggravating environmental factors, but as stated above, a lot of this is individual to the bird... No way of knowing how yours will be. Yours could be very chill compared to some, or it could be as bad as what you have heard....so....do with that information what you like. You know it is one of the "hot 3" , so make sure you are up for what COULD (but may not) happen.

 

[beachdreamer]

Thank you both for taking the time to answer in so much detail. It is appreciated. I used to have a DYH years ago and looking back, it probably was a male. I loved that bird but he did bite the fire out of me on more than one occasion. This was back in the 1990's and I didn't know the first thing about the hormonal changes or being able to recognize their body language. The only bird I have right now is a male African Grey so I'm not sure what impact that would have since it's a different species. I was actually planning to adopt a rescue and still might but this bird came along out of the blue. I wish I knew what age the hormonal aggression ends but I haven't found that information anywhere. The rescue birds I'm interested in are around 30 or 40 years old, most likely wild-caught, and have the bands that were used at the quarantine stations. One is a yellow nape and the other is an orange wing.

 

[SailBoat]

With the statements you have made regarding the 'hot three' and the deadly dangers of DYHA males, please do not get an Amazon! You will always be waiting for the poor Amazon to prove your position and then all your fears will rush in...

Amazons, especially the 'hot three' (and why not add all males for the fun of it) REQUIRE the Human to Learn Their Body Language. Those who choose not to learn that Language 'will be' bitten.

With fifty years of one-on-one Amazon experience, this old Amazon Snob recommends that you 'not' get an Amazon and especially a DYHA male as you will always be waiting for the 'Hammer (beak) to drop (bite)... And, they will not fail you in that regard.

Your source? Facebook?

FYI: Sadly, you didn't include this most recent information regarding your Amazon history earlier

 

[beachdreamer]

Since it was so long ago and I didn't have a clue what I was doing back then, I honestly didn't think about mentioning it. I had my DYH for years and never considered rehoming him/her, even when the biting was at the worst. The biggest difference is that I now know what to look for in their body language. BUT, since I've only had that one Amazon, I was trying to find out from those with more experience if a female really would be easier.

 

[SailBoat]

Have had both males and females over the years.

We start from the deepest hole in the behavioral ground with an Amazon that has been dumped like yesterdays trash, commonly very sick, likely abused and with no want to ever trust another Human again. The first few months make it even worst as we commonly need to be treating them with medications... Point being, they have every reason to Kill Us than to love us.

The latest owner of our Home is a 22 year old DYHA, male that touched all the markers of a Killer Amazon. He has been with us for 6 years now and we are the love of his life (especially Mrs. Boats). So, if an Amazon that has been so miss-treated can become a Lover, what could a young Amazon require?

This year has been an over the top hormonal year for near all Parrots and Amazons have been heavily effected. Point being, is one does not know what to look for, a chemical crazed Amazon (understanding they have zero control of it) will bite and bite hard. Amazons are like a game of Poker: You have to know when to hold them and know when to give them space to cool-off.

"Amazons, especially the 'hot three' (and why not add all males for the fun of it) REQUIRE the Human to Learn Their Body Language. Those who choose not to learn that Language 'will be' bitten.' " 90% of the time, its the Human that controls the moment, fail to understand the 'State' of the Amazon and you will not be rewarded, you will be bitten...

 

[noodles123]

Thank you both for taking the time to answer in so much detail. It is appreciated. I used to have a DYH years ago and looking back, it probably was a male. I loved that bird but he did bite the fire out of me on more than one occasion. This was back in the 1990's and I didn't know the first thing about the hormonal changes or being able to recognize their body language. The only bird I have right now is a male African Grey so I'm not sure what impact that would have since it's a different species. I was actually planning to adopt a rescue and still might but this bird came along out of the blue. I wish I knew what age the hormonal aggression ends but I haven't found that information anywhere. The rescue birds I'm interested in are around 30 or 40 years old, most likely wild-caught, and have the bands that were used at the quarantine stations. One is a yellow nape and the other is an orange wing.

2 birds can DEFINITELY complicate your life...I am not saying it WON'T work, but remember that 2 birds can bond together (regardless of species or sex) and exclude you (thereby increasing aggression and hormones). They can also HATE the other bird and need 100% separate time out of cages...which would be roughly 8 hours a day in your case..at least, at sexual maturity...So just think about all of that I guess.
If you have the time and space and ability to quarantine for 45 days, (plus time for separate out-of-cage-time) then you could manage, but 8 hours is A LOT in the event that they can't be out together....and birds CAN fight in severe ways...they can and do kill other birds---not to make you upset, but because of the complexities of territories, sex, hormones, size etc..
Again-- none of this is certain, but there is no way of knowing...so you have to expect the worst and hope for the best.