At a loss to find a good corn/soy free pellet that works! :(

[LoveMyFids]

I'm currently having a really hard time with bird pellets. One of my birds has developed either a corn or soy allergy which makes his skin very itchy & he started picking. I don't know if it's the corn or the soy, but I suspect corn as it's known to be allergic. The problem is that cornmeal & soymeal are usually the first 2 ingredients of most pellets like Harrison's, Roudybush, Mazuri, etc. I switched him to Tops, which has neither, but he crushes it to dust & then eats the dust & goes to the water dish every bite & developed polyuria as a result. His picking lessoned like 80% though on the Tops & my avian vet said to keep using it. Then I had a horrible emergency w/my African Grey yesterday & she passed away over night (ingested some thread or fabric from her cage cover which impacted her intestines-I'm DEVASTATED beyond words, she was my everything, my baby for 21 yrs since she was 4mo. old). I had to take her to a different avian vet because my usual wasn't available on the dire emergency. It was a well known avian vet with positive reviews-so not someone inexperienced at all. I happened to mention the Tops pellets to her (as my Grey was also on them in a 50/50 mix w/Roudybush) & she was vehemently opposed to Tops, saying that they are notorious for all kind of health problems in parrots, such as kidney disease & said they are way too high in phosphorous for them. She said to stay away from alfalfa pellets & thought my Grey's kidney imbalance could have been a result of Tops. My usual vet didn't have any problems with Tops though, so now I'm confused & concerned because #1.) my grey passed away & did have some kidney issues according to her blood tests (though she died of the intestinal blockage) & #2.)my other parrot with skin issues is now exclusively on Tops because of his corn allergy (he also gets veggies & greens daily). I have emailed my regular avian vet to ask his opinion, but haven't heard back because he's out of town right now. Has anyone on here heard that the alfalfa pellets are bad from their vets? She was REALLY against them & said Harrison's was the best. She also said Roudybush isn't good because something about them using fermented corn or soy (or non fermented?), & claimed that birds cannot digest it properly. I can't use Harrison's because of the corn & soy though. I feel at a loss. I did see that there are 2 other pellet brands which have no soy or corn (Caitec Oven Fresh Bites & Hagen Tropical Alternative Formula). The problem w/both of those is that they are higher in fat & have peanuts & sunflower in them, which isn't great because my parrot with the skin issues also has high cholesterol & needs to have a low fat/low carb diet. I'm at a loss & just don't know what to do. You get a different answer depending on the vet. It's so frustrating!

 

[Greenhouseparrots]

I'm currently having a really hard time with bird pellets. One of my birds has developed either a corn or soy allergy which makes his skin very itchy & he started picking. I don't know if it's the corn or the soy, but I suspect corn as it's known to be allergic. The problem is that cornmeal & soymeal are usually the first 2 ingredients of most pellets like Harrison's, Roudybush, Mazuri, etc. I switched him to Tops, which has neither, but he crushes it to dust & then eats the dust & goes to the water dish every bite & developed polyuria as a result. His picking lessoned like 80% though on the Tops & my avian vet said to keep using it. Then I had a horrible emergency w/my African Grey yesterday & she passed away over night (ingested some thread or fabric from her cage cover which impacted her intestines-I'm DEVASTATED beyond words, she was my everything, my baby for 21 yrs since she was 4mo. old). I had to take her to a different avian vet because my usual wasn't available on the dire emergency. It was a well known avian vet with positive reviews-so not someone inexperienced at all. I happened to mention the Tops pellets to her (as my Grey was also on them in a 50/50 mix w/Roudybush) & she was vehemently opposed to Tops, saying that they are notorious for all kind of health problems in parrots, such as kidney disease & said they are way too high in phosphorous for them. She said to stay away from alfalfa pellets & thought my Grey's kidney imbalance could have been a result of Tops. My usual vet didn't have any problems with Tops though, so now I'm confused & concerned because #1.) my grey passed away & did have some kidney issues according to her blood tests (though she died of the intestinal blockage) & #2.)my other parrot with skin issues is now exclusively on Tops because of his corn allergy (he also gets veggies & greens daily). I have emailed my regular avian vet to ask his opinion, but haven't heard back because he's out of town right now. Has anyone on here heard that the alfalfa pellets are bad from their vets? She was REALLY against them & said Harrison's was the best. She also said Roudybush isn't good because something about them using fermented corn or soy (or non fermented?), & claimed that birds cannot digest it properly. I can't use Harrison's because of the corn & soy though. I feel at a loss. I did see that there are 2 other pellet brands which have no soy or corn (Caitec Oven Fresh Bites & Hagen Tropical Alternative Formula). The problem w/both of those is that they are higher in fat & have peanuts & sunflower in them, which isn't great because my parrot with the skin issues also has high cholesterol & needs to have a low fat/low carb diet. I'm at a loss & just don't know what to do. You get a different answer depending on the vet. It's so frustrating!

I can sympathise with you because I have celiac disease which is like an allergy to gluten. I get a rash if I touch wheat flour so I can't have my birds on any pellets containing wheat or barley which is 99% of them. I found two that they can have but they both have soy in them so they probably won't be good for you.

In my opinion Tops aren't a good pellet as they aren't complete and if the only pellet your parrot is eating is Tops then how are they getting their other vitamins? Unless you have the time and money to research and make a nutritionally complete diet for your parrot then I would try and find a complete pellet. I think Tops is fine as a supplement to a good diet but if it's the only pellet your bird is eating then you're going to be missing out on vitamins and minerals. I'm also not convinced that feeding parrots a pellet that mainly contains grass (alfalfa is the main ingredient in Tops pellets) is a good idea. Alfalfa is healthy in small amounts but no parrot I know of is a grass eater. They eat grass seeds and sprouts but they don't eat grass like a sheep or a rabbit so why are the pellets mostly grass?

I found this food which doesn't have soy or corn and I'm sure there are some others around

Alternative Formula - Hari

PREMIUM DAILY NUTRITION FOR ALL ADULT LIFE STAGES Tropican Alternative Formula provides proper daily nutrition for Adult and Senior Parrots who are diet challenged, require

hari.ca

 

[LoveMyFids]

I can sympathise with you because I have celiac disease which is like an allergy to gluten. I get a rash if I touch wheat flour so I can't have my birds on any pellets containing wheat or barley which is 99% of them. I found two that they can have but they both have soy in them so they probably won't be good for you.

In my opinion Tops aren't a good pellet as they aren't complete and if the only pellet your parrot is eating is Tops then how are they getting their other vitamins? Unless you have the time and money to research and make a nutritionally complete diet for your parrot then I would try and find a complete pellet. I think Tops is fine as a supplement to a good diet but if it's the only pellet your bird is eating then you're going to be missing out on vitamins and minerals. I'm also not convinced that feeding parrots a pellet that mainly contains grass (alfalfa is the main ingredient in Tops pellets) is a good idea. Alfalfa is healthy in small amounts but no parrot I know of is a grass eater. They eat grass seeds and sprouts but they don't eat grass like a sheep or a rabbit so why are the pellets mostly grass?

I found this food which doesn't have soy or corn and I'm sure there are some others around

Alternative Formula - Hari

PREMIUM DAILY NUTRITION FOR ALL ADULT LIFE STAGES Tropican Alternative Formula provides proper daily nutrition for Adult and Senior Parrots who are diet challenged, require

hari.ca

Thank you. Yes, it's so hard to find an actual good pellet. Just like you mention about alfalfa, no bird exists on cornmeal & soy either, so I find it kind of ridiculous that these are normally the first 2 ingredients of the majority of pellets out there. Soy is also estrogenic & can stimulate female birds hormones & lead to plucking, etc. WHY? It's not even good for humans to eat soy products every day. I think I will try the food you mentioned. I was looking at it yesterday actually. I have a Meyes who is around 18 now & I think she is having issues digesting the Roudybush lately. Every time she eats them her poop looks like a yellow sludge (same color as the pellet). Later when she has only eaten her chop/veggies, her poop looks normal (green). I just bought a bag of Harrison's to try, but that still has soy & corn, so I am thinking of doing a mix. The vet was pushing Harrison's hard (like all seem to do), & claimed that even though Harrison's has corn & soy, that it's more easily digested & better quality in how it's processed, etc. She claimed it was the ONLY pellet she has seen that works for birds. I'm skeptical, but am going to see how my Meyers takes to it & whether she has those odd droppings from them. My Rock Pebbler is the one allergic to corn or soy, so I still have him on the Tops exclusively. I'm waiting to hear back from my regular avian vet about my concerns over it. He seemed to think Tops was a good idea, but I'm skeptical obviously.

 

[Jcas]

Unfortunately, when it comes to how you feed your animals strong opinions abound. No matter what brand you use, you will be able to find a vet, pet store employee, other pet parents etc who will tell you, with conviction, that X food brand will fix everything that ails your pet and you will be able find just as many people who will claim that X food brand will kill your pet. This is true for any animal; bird, dog, cat etc. but bird nutrition is really still a pretty new science so I feel like there are still a lot more opinions than facts. In my humble opinion, the only true “expert” for your bird(s) is you. You know them better than anyone. Also, birds are individuals just like people. Food that works well for one might not work for another. That doesn’t mean the food is universally “ bad” or “ good” for every bird. Just my two cents 🙂 ( disclaimer: I do feed Tops, but if it didn’t work for my birds, I would have no problem switching to something else!)

 

[LoveMyFids]

Unfortunately, when it comes to how you feed your animals strong opinions abound. No matter what brand you use, you will be able to find a vet, pet store employee, other pet parents etc who will tell you, with conviction, that X food brand will fix everything that ails your pet and you will be able find just as many people who will claim that X food brand will kill your pet. This is true for any animal; bird, dog, cat etc. but bird nutrition is really still a pretty new science so I feel like there are still a lot more opinions than facts. In my humble opinion, the only true “expert” for your bird(s) is you. You know them better than anyone. Also, birds are individuals just like people. Food that works well for one might not work for another. That doesn’t mean the food is universally “ bad” or “ good” for every bird. Just my two cents 🙂 ( disclaimer: I do feed Tops, but if it didn’t work for my birds, I would have no problem switching to something else!)

True. The vet actually mentioned that each species is different as far as dietary needs, so you don't necessarily feed the same thing to them all if you have multiple birds. I wish there was more info. on the subject of diet in general.

 

[Owlet]

TOPs is not suppose to be a nutrionally complete diet. TBH no pellet should be. Fortified vitamins aren't as good as they're made out to be and that's what majority of pellets contain. African greys (and eclectus) are very sensitive birds when it comes to their diet. The best pellet, that I have found, for them IS TOPs. TOPs has no artifical colorant, fortified / added vitamins, artifical preservatives, etc. They are suppose to be a filler and nothing else really. AGs and Eclectus really need to be getting majority of their nutrition from a varied fresh food diet.

 

[Greenhouseparrots]

True. The vet actually mentioned that each species is different as far as dietary needs, so you don't necessarily feed the same thing to them all if you have multiple birds. I wish there was more info. on the subject of diet in general.

It really is so difficult to know what to do for the best. I've spent so many hours researching diets for my flock but I feel like I just go round in circles. I suppose it's the same as it is for people where we can survive on many different diets but you still get vegan/ keto/ paleo diets and all of those which people claim to thrive on and there's studies for them which say they're healthy.

 

[LoveMyFids]

It really is so difficult to know what to do for the best. I've spent so many hours researching diets for my flock but I feel like I just go round in circles. I suppose it's the same as it is for people where we can survive on many different diets but you still get vegan/ keto/ paleo diets and all of those which people claim to thrive on and there's studies for them which say they're healthy.

Same here. I've asked vets, looked at countless articles, browsed forum threads, read articles & actually read ingredients for all the main brands to compare ingredients. It's just never ending question. In the past several yrs. there's been a huge change in cat & dog diets, as they've discovered all the processed by product ingredients are bad long term for their health. I feel the same about the majority of the pellets, as it simply can't be good to eat corn meal & soy meal every day. This isn't their natural foods in the wild. I suspect a lot of beginning feather plucking could be due to diet in general, besides stress & hormones. Just like dogs & cats often develop food allergies to all the stuff in the kibbles. These companies are just using what's cheaper & easier to obtain in bulk as fillers & it's a damn shame. I really hope in the future there will be advances in parrot food like there is now w/Farmer's Dog & all of those kind of things they have for dogs & cats now. Considering a good majority of parrots live a long time, it's terrible that they begin to develop diet related issues w/their skin, kidneys, liver & uric acid at ages way younger than they should be, or would ever happen in the wild. TOPS tried to break away from it, but they are far from nutritionally adequate. The one vet I just went to literally said it was like poison & that she had seen many cases of it causing organ problems in brids because of the constant high phosphates in alfalfa. Way too much for a bird to consume daily & eliminate naturally. She's been around for a long time too-not a newbie to avians. I think maybe people should rethink TOPS if it's the only pellet they are giving their birds because of this.

 

[Greenhouseparrots]

Same here. I've asked vets, looked at countless articles, browsed forum threads, read articles & actually read ingredients for all the main brands to compare ingredients. It's just never ending question. In the past several yrs. there's been a huge change in cat & dog diets, as they've discovered all the processed by product ingredients are bad long term for their health. I feel the same about the majority of the pellets, as it simply can't be good to eat corn meal & soy meal every day. This isn't their natural foods in the wild. I suspect a lot of beginning feather plucking could be due to diet in general, besides stress & hormones. Just like dogs & cats often develop food allergies to all the stuff in the kibbles. These companies are just using what's cheaper & easier to obtain in bulk as fillers & it's a damn shame. I really hope in the future there will be advances in parrot food like there is now w/Farmer's Dog & all of those kind of things they have for dogs & cats now. Considering a good majority of parrots live a long time, it's terrible that they begin to develop diet related issues w/their skin, kidneys, liver & uric acid at ages way younger than they should be, or would ever happen in the wild. TOPS tried to break away from it, but they are far from nutritionally adequate. The one vet I just went to literally said it was like poison & that she had seen many cases of it causing organ problems in brids because of the constant high phosphates in alfalfa. Way too much for a bird to consume daily & eliminate naturally. She's been around for a long time too-not a newbie to avians. I think maybe people should rethink TOPS if it's the only pellet they are giving their birds because of this.

I've done so much research for dog and cat foods (my elderly cat had problems and I do dog walking for a few people) and even that's hard to figure out. I see so many promoting a raw diet for dogs, but I also know someone who had theirs on a raw diet and did it properly, walked her for miles each day and she ended up almost dying because of it and now she's on a special diet from the vet and is okay but they have to watch her weight as she lost so much. This was a young dog and her owner was retired so had all the time for her. But many people probably feed raw and their dogs thrive. I also know someone who's dog is on very expensive, top of the range dog food and treats and she's obese and struggles to keep the weight off. The dog I walk the most is on a diet of a mid range kibble, rich tea biscuits and cheap dog treats that his owner gets (she's retired and only gets a small pension so can't afford the best), and he's a very healthy, happy dog. His fur is beautiful, his weight is spot on even though he only gets walked about four times a week (his owner is very poorly and can't get out much, and he's a german shepherd so he's a big dog). His temperament is brilliant too despite all this.

My boyfriends uncle's cockatiel died recently at 32 years old and he had a mostly seed diet, so that really confuses me as he surely shouldn't have lived that long on mostly seeds! I really hope that more research goes into parrot diets and health as I think it's definitely needed, though even then I think I'll still be confused about what to feed them

 

[Jcas]

I've done so much research for dog and cat foods (my elderly cat had problems and I do dog walking for a few people) and even that's hard to figure out. I see so many promoting a raw diet for dogs, but I also know someone who had theirs on a raw diet and did it properly, walked her for miles each day and she ended up almost dying because of it and now she's on a special diet from the vet and is okay but they have to watch her weight as she lost so much. This was a young dog and her owner was retired so had all the time for her. But many people probably feed raw and their dogs thrive. I also know someone who's dog is on very expensive, top of the range dog food and treats and she's obese and struggles to keep the weight off. The dog I walk the most is on a diet of a mid range kibble, rich tea biscuits and cheap dog treats that his owner gets (she's retired and only gets a small pension so can't afford the best), and he's a very healthy, happy dog. His fur is beautiful, his weight is spot on even though he only gets walked about four times a week (his owner is very poorly and can't get out much, and he's a german shepherd so he's a big dog). His temperament is brilliant too despite all this.

My boyfriends uncle's cockatiel died recently at 32 years old and he had a mostly seed diet, so that really confuses me as he surely shouldn't have lived that long on mostly seeds! I really hope that more research goes into parrot diets and health as I think it's definitely needed, though even then I think I'll still be confused about what to feed them

I know!!! I’ve poured so much time into researching dog food, and there is tons of information and opinions out there! ( not that that makes it much easier lol). When I got my first budgie, I tried researching what to feed him and found practically nothing. I literally couldn’t even find a basic number for how much protein, fats, etc. they should get each day. I was so surprised. Same thing when I got my Quaker, no one seems to have done any research on what they should eat or even what they eat in the wild! ( except for the ones who live wild in Chicago and eat from peoples’ bird feeders 😂). Honestly, I always feel a little bewildered when it comes to my birds’ diets. I hope that if I offer them lots of variety they’ll have at least SOME instinct to know what they need!

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I know!!! I’ve poured so much time into researching dog food, and there is tons of information and opinions out there! ( not that that makes it much easier lol). When I got my first budgie, I tried researching what to feed him and found practically nothing. I literally couldn’t even find a basic number for how much protein, fats, etc. they should get each day. I was so surprised. Same thing when I got my Quaker, no one seems to have done any research on what they should eat or even what they eat in the wild! ( except for the ones who live wild in Chicago and eat from peoples’ bird feeders 😂). Honestly, I always feel a little bewildered when it comes to my birds’ diets. I hope that if I offer them lots of variety they’ll have at least SOME instinct to know what they need!

Maybe I'm missing something here but if you must eliminate the corn and soy ingredients from your birds diet (I don't doubt you at all), why not feed them soy and corn free versions of home made "chop" plus a carefully selected blend of other items like seeds, nuts, grains as their dry food until you can get the skin issue better defined and under control? A bird won't starve or die from not being fed pellets, which are hardly a natural food for them?

And SO sorry about losing your grey, too, at such a stressful time, all over what your birds have eaten, no fault of yours! How can we possibly police every item our birds choose to swallow after quite naturally chewing on everything within the reach of their beaks? My most sincere condolences.

 

[widor]

So no

I've done so much research for dog and cat foods (my elderly cat had problems and I do dog walking for a few people) and even that's hard to figure out. I see so many promoting a raw diet for dogs, but I also know someone who had theirs on a raw diet and did it properly, walked her for miles each day and she ended up almost dying because of it and now she's on a special diet from the vet and is okay but they have to watch her weight as she lost so much. This was a young dog and her owner was retired so had all the time for her. But many people probably feed raw and their dogs thrive. I also know someone who's dog is on very expensive, top of the range dog food and treats and she's obese and struggles to keep the weight off. The dog I walk the most is on a diet of a mid range kibble, rich tea biscuits and cheap dog treats that his owner gets (she's retired and only gets a small pension so can't afford the best), and he's a very healthy, happy dog. His fur is beautiful, his weight is spot on even though he only gets walked about four times a week (his owner is very poorly and can't get out much, and he's a german shepherd so he's a big dog). His temperament is brilliant too despite all this.

My boyfriends uncle's cockatiel died recently at 32 years old and he had a mostly seed diet, so that really confuses me as he surely shouldn't have lived that long on mostly seeds! I really hope that more research goes into parrot diets and health as I think it's definitely needed, though even then I think I'll still be confused about what to feed them

hmm, somehow I am not convinced of this whole pellet thing at all...saying seeds are bad cause they are full of fat and bird do not need them in captivity- still find it more healthy in moderate than processed food...sure birds are not on full seed diet in the wild-which should avoid of course .For example seeing my kakarikis how much they enjoy wild seed grass and "weeds" from our garden I am pretty sure this is their natural instinct to eat such things.On the other hand they are not very keen on fruits for example .

 

[Greenhouseparrots]

So no

hmm, somehow I am not convinced of this whole pellet thing at all...saying seeds are bad cause they are full of fat and bird do not need them in captivity- still find it more healthy in moderate than processed food...sure birds are not on full seed diet in the wild-which should avoid of course .For example seeing my kakarikis how much they enjoy wild seed grass and "weeds" from our garden I am pretty sure this is their natural instinct to eat such things.On the other hand they are not very keen on fruits for example .

I think the problem is that we can't fully recreate what they would eat in the wild (plus wild birds are often malnourished anyway) so the pellets are supposed to fill in the gaps and ensure that they're getting what they need. I think a lot of the time we look at wild animals and think they're living perfect lives when in reality they're surviving but probably not thriving. Pellets aren't perfect, but I don't have the time and resources to go to the amazon and get all the food my conures would eat in the wild, and that wouldn't be good for them anyway as they get nowhere near the amount of exercise they would in the wild. Vegetables that we give them in captivity are so different from any they would find themselves that it's not natural to give those either. Plus a lot of our fruits and vegetables have been sprayed with pesticides (even organic ones are), which is bad too. But we still give them because we know they're healthy and good for them. I know pellets are processed but not all processed foods are bad, and I think they have their place. Mine do also get loads of fresh vegetables and I'm happy that I'm providing them with the best I can.

 

[CLS]

I think the problem is that we can't fully recreate what they would eat in the wild (plus wild birds are often malnourished anyway) so the pellets are supposed to fill in the gaps and ensure that they're getting what they need. I think a lot of the time we look at wild animals and think they're living perfect lives when in reality they're surviving but probably not thriving. Pellets aren't perfect, but I don't have the time and resources to go to the amazon and get all the food my conures would eat in the wild, and that wouldn't be good for them anyway as they get nowhere near the amount of exercise they would in the wild. Vegetables that we give them in captivity are so different from any they would find themselves that it's not natural to give those either. Plus a lot of our fruits and vegetables have been sprayed with pesticides (even organic ones are), which is bad too. But we still give them because we know they're healthy and good for them. I know pellets are processed but not all processed foods are bad, and I think they have their place. Mine do also get loads of fresh vegetables and I'm happy that I'm providing them with the best I can.

Tops makes a very good pellet, I'm currently easing my Maxie parrot onto these, he started on rowdybush 23 years ago, sadly has been introduced by others to junk foods, but now has a fat pad developing between his legs. Was recently on lafebers pellets, which is what I'm weaning him off of. Now gets fresh veggies from my garden, which he is gradually is getting used to. ALso gets cooked meats now during his molt. Not sure if he should get meat at all, but is ravenous for it. Any suggestions are much appreciated!

 

[Owlet]

Tops makes a very good pellet, I'm currently easing my Maxie parrot onto these, he started on rowdybush 23 years ago, sadly has been introduced by others to junk foods, but now has a fat pad developing between his legs. Was recently on lafebers pellets, which is what I'm weaning him off of. Now gets fresh veggies from my garden, which he is gradually is getting used to. ALso gets cooked meats now during his molt. Not sure if he should get meat at all, but is ravenous for it. Any suggestions are much appreciated!

Meat is okay every now and again but too much of it is too much protein and can lead to thyroid issues.

 

[CLS]

I can sympathise with you because I have celiac disease which is like an allergy to gluten. I get a rash if I touch wheat flour so I can't have my birds on any pellets containing wheat or barley which is 99% of them. I found two that they can have but they both have soy in them so they probably won't be good for you.

In my opinion Tops aren't a good pellet as they aren't complete and if the only pellet your parrot is eating is Tops then how are they getting their other vitamins? Unless you have the time and money to research and make a nutritionally complete diet for your parrot then I would try and find a complete pellet. I think Tops is fine as a supplement to a good diet but if it's the only pellet your bird is eating then you're going to be missing out on vitamins and minerals. I'm also not convinced that feeding parrots a pellet that mainly contains grass (alfalfa is the main ingredient in Tops pellets) is a good idea. Alfalfa is healthy in small amounts but no parrot I know of is a grass eater. They eat grass seeds and sprouts but they don't eat grass like a sheep or a rabbit so why are the pellets mostly grass?

I found this food which doesn't have soy or corn and I'm sure there are some others around

Alternative Formula - Hari

PREMIUM DAILY NUTRITION FOR ALL ADULT LIFE STAGES Tropican Alternative Formula provides proper daily nutrition for Adult and Senior Parrots who are diet challenged, require

hari.ca

I sprinkle a powdered marine greens blend plus an avian vitamin supplement, plus he gets various fresh veggies. I will look into Hari, but I just spent more than 30.00 on Tops for 4 lbs.