Baby Severe Macaw

[Kiwibird]

My conure was overbonded, it wasnt a problem, i kinda liked it. Sometimes he had sex with my arm, it didnt really make me uncomfortable and he was happy. Im not a social person and dont have people over. Ive been spending all my free time at the store with him, 4-8 hours a day, every day. other people handle him too.
Can you give me some tips on training him now at this age? Theyre hiring a trainer soon, but you seem to have alot of experience.

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Listen to Mark (birdman666) on this one, socialize, socialize, socialize! I generally prefer staying in and have some unpleasant social anxiety issues around face to face interactions. Still, even though I cringe when I sense them coming over to talk to me about him, I still take my bird out to get him meeting new people and seeing new things. Why? Because HE likes the attention, HE benefits from exposure to new things, HIS behavior is markedly improved with improved socialization and that makes it worth it to me.

Creating an overbonded bird on purpose is like inflicting a disability on your bird on purpose. Overbonding is a behavioral issue many people work very hard to break a bird of. What if you ever had to rehome him for some reason or worse, died? It would be so much harder for an unsocialized, one person bird who's aggressive towards everyone else to find a loving, caring home.

As for allowing a bird to have sex with your arm? It is unfortunate domestic pet parrots cannot live the life nature intended, but encouraging sexual behavior in such a way is detrimental to their well being. Our bird is given clear "not interested" signs when he's attempted sexual behaviors towards us and is blatantly ignored if he's doing it on his own in his cage. Other measures are taken to lessen his hormonal discomfort (altered diet, increased amount of chewing toys, consistent sleep/wake cycles etc...), not make it worse! It is natural for them to have sexual urges, but it also doesn't need to be encouraged either. Again, it's throwing fuel on a fire and making a difficult void in your birds life even more difficult to cope with than distracting and diverting that attention elsewhere to more productive activities and lessening the discomfort as much as possible for them.

 

[Royalroacho]

My conure was overbonded, it wasnt a problem, i kinda liked it. Sometimes he had sex with my arm, it didnt really make me uncomfortable and he was happy. Im not a social person and dont have people over. Ive been spending all my free time at the store with him, 4-8 hours a day, every day. other people handle him too.
Can you give me some tips on training him now at this age? Theyre hiring a trainer soon, but you seem to have alot of experience.

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Listen to Mark (birdman666) on this one, socialize, socialize, socialize! I generally prefer staying in and have some unpleasant social anxiety issues around face to face interactions. Still, even though I cringe when I sense them coming over to talk to me about him, I still take my bird out to get him meeting new people and seeing new things. Why? Because HE likes the attention, HE benefits from exposure to new things, HIS behavior is markedly improved with improved socialization and that makes it worth it to me.

Creating an overbonded bird on purpose is like inflicting a disability on your bird on purpose. Overbonding is a behavioral issue many people work very hard to break a bird of. What if you ever had to rehome him for some reason or worse, died? It would be so much harder for an unsocialized, one person bird who's aggressive towards everyone else to find a loving, caring home.

As for allowing a bird to have sex with your arm? It is unfortunate domestic pet parrots cannot live the life nature intended, but encouraging sexual behavior in such a way is detrimental to their well being. Our bird is given clear "not interested" signs when he's attempted sexual behaviors towards us and is blatantly ignored if he's doing it on his own in his cage. Other measures are taken to lessen his hormonal discomfort (altered diet, increased amount of chewing toys, consistent sleep/wake cycles etc...), not make it worse! It is natural for them to have sexual urges, but it also doesn't need to be encouraged either. Again, it's throwing fuel on a fire and making a difficult void in your birds life even more difficult to cope with than distracting and diverting that attention elsewhere to more productive activities and lessening the discomfort as much as possible for them.

Well, i dont agree with you, and am not going to try to change your opinions, so please respect mine. Im not actively encouraging an antisocial bird or sexual activity. I see people occaisionally and the bird is fine with them, alot of are people handling him. I dont do a strip show with nipple clamps to encourage him and engage in bestiality. He can have the pleasure of orgasm with the being he feels love towards and its fine, hes happy. Its really stupid to talk about " what if you die", dont give me that crap. What if you die? My animal freinds are very happy. I dont like being accused over the internet by someone who cant handle confrontation in person. You can take out your frustration elsewhere please.

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[Kiwibird]

I do not fear confrontation, but I also do not wish to contribute negatively to the world either. "Social anxiety issues" is a nice way of saying "doesn't play nice with others". I do try to not intentionally incite anger in others but it seems to be my curse in life to do so regardless of how I approach interactions. My post wasn't aimed to offend, rather to inform about widely accepted practices and view in the avian community, along with widely accepted solutions and alternatives. Your offense was not my intention.

I suggest you discuss overbonding and avian hormones/sexuality things with your avian vet when you take the new bird in for his initial visit. Don't take my word for it, get an expert's take on it.

 

[chris-md]

Easy friend, April was giving you some important information, trying to help you. Please pay a ttention to the important lesson she’s trying to teach you.

Think about it: when you do have guests over, do you want a bird who actively seeks out people to attack? My grandmas severe did that with me and it was terrifying. And that bird was a rehome. What about a vet visit? What if you pass away? What if you decide to rehome him, only to find nobody will take him because he won’t let anyone handle him? My Parker was a rehome and the previous owner disclosed that a few prospective owners backed out because he bit them - their fault in his case because they pushed him too far. Worse, they didn’t understand that they only got bit because of that. If they knew better, they would have had an amazing bird who will go to anyone...except for black people. I can’t understand why but he hates black people and flys away from any who try to hold him. Very strange.

It’s one thing to do the best you can, maybe come up short. It’s quite another to outright state “I don’t care if he exhibits one person behavior”. Even I read that as you have no interest in discouraging it, even subconsciously encouraging it.

It’s about raising Raising a healthy, happy, well adjusted bird with manners and setting them up for a perfect future. Sometimes what is truly best for the animal is not always obvious or intuitive. But it’s about them, not about you.

And now you know.

 

[Flboy]

My 1.5 cents worth. I want everyone to love my JoJo as I do and I want my JoJo to love everyone the way I wished I could!

 

[Royalroacho]

I do not fear confrontation, but I also do not wish to contribute negatively to the world either. "Social anxiety issues" is a nice way of saying "doesn't play nice with others". I do try to not intentionally incite anger in others but it seems to be my curse in life to do so regardless of how I approach interactions. My post wasn't aimed to offend, rather to inform about widely accepted practices and view in the avian community, along with widely accepted solutions and alternatives. Your offense was not my intention.

I suggest you discuss overbonding and avian hormones/sexuality things with your avian vet when you take the new bird in for his initial visit. Don't take my word for it, get an expert's take on it.

Yeah, i have the same problem, i got offended, but im not mad and dont dislike you. My sun was overbonded with me, and i was with him. I dont dislike people, but id rather be with animals. I see them as non human people that i care for and share my life with. He was friendly with most people. I know the macaw is a different bird, larger and more intelligent. Ill talk to them about it, and do appreciate you guys giving me constructive criticism. I am forming a freindship with the owner and people at the bird store. Ill be there after the baby is home with me, and bring him in to socialize, i think it will be ok. I like being around them and the birds and will continue to go there with him.
Its hard to imply tone in writing. Im fast to tell people to leave on forums, i really hate fighting in a thread. i cant tell if my values and beliefs are being attacked and im being harassed, or if its just stern advice in my own best interest, if i could see and hear people it would be alot easier. I dont like getting mad, it makes me closed off to other opinions that might be right in my defensiveness. Overbonding may be a problem with this bird, hes not a little conure. Im always with my bird though. I work from home, the only time i wont be with him is when im at school 12 hrs a week.
I dont mind arguing a bit, im sorry if i offended you, i felt like you were trying to offend me.

Whats the best way to bathe him, or should i not bother? He pumps alot when hes feeding, and splashes food that dries on him. I cant get all of it off, should i use a damp paper towel or washcloth?
Im also doing pretty well with trying to be informative with customers. No one has hurt any of the birds, i feel like i can keep an eye out and prevent that from happening.
Heres some pics from today, hes getting smarter and more curious and loving everyday. I can see him judging spatial relations and objects. The macaws are going to take alot of work, ive seen them copulating, im going to try to make sure they stay together if i can, they are in love with eachother. Ill need alot of advice.

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[LordTriggs]

Royal, I understand where you come from about humans, I'm not a big fan of them either

A quick thing to learn here is there's very little in the way of hostility. I think I'm among the most hostile, though I opt for tough love with humans out of my previous retail life leaving a chip on my shoulder.

One thing I will say as an addendum to Kiwi's post is what happens if/when you end up in some form of relationship with someone and have a bird that's actively hostile to others? It's a stalemate that cannot be sustained and can only end in tears. I'm not much of an outdoors person and have some legitimate psychological issues but when it came down to my conure I wanted to be able to take him out to meet people and any future birds I want to take out and about, be it to the pet shop to grab some bits or down to the park to have a flutter in the fresh air. I even had people at my gym telling me to bring my conure in!

Then through seeing people's birds at a show/convention thing I went to it was amazing seeing how happy they were seeing all the new things and people. It's definitely great to see a bird out and about happy as can be, and even funnier seeing non-bird people's reactions

 

[Birdman666]

The issue with Severe's is OVERBONDING!!!

These are pair bond birds. If they are allowed to overbond with one person, they will... problem being they then tend to bite anyone who is NOT their person.

SEVERE MACAWS NEED EXTRA SOCIALIZATION. WHEN THEY GET IT THEY TEND TO BE GOOD BIRDS. WHEN THEY DON'T GET IT, THEY USUALLY BECOME "ONE PERSON" BIRDS... AND BITE.

Know that going in, and train this bird correctly from birth, and it shouldn't be an issue.

My conure was overbonded, it wasnt a problem, i kinda liked it. Sometimes he had sex with my arm, it didnt really make me uncomfortable and he was happy. Im not a social person and dont have people over. Ive been spending all my free time at the store with him, 4-8 hours a day, every day. other people handle him too.
Can you give me some tips on training him now at this age? Theyre hiring a trainer soon, but you seem to have alot of experience.

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A severe macaw is NOT a conure... their reputations are deserved.

THEY CAN BE GREAT BIRDS, but they tend to be the most ONE PERSON-ISH of the macaws if not socialized around strangers, and they tend to be attacky with anyone who is NOT their person... SO THEY NEED TO BE EXPOSED TO STRANGERS. THEY NEED NO BITE TRAINING/BITE PRESSURE TRAINING. THEY NEED TO STEP UP FOR STRANGERS.

A game of "pass the birdie" where everyone sits around in a circle, and you pass the birdie to the next person... head scratches, loving on, treats, etc...
AT THIS AGE... IS THE EASIEST THING IN THE WORLD TO DO... AND REINFORCES THE IDEA THAT "I MAY HAVE A FAVORITE PERSON" BUT I LOVE EVERYONE, AND EVERYONE LOVES ME..."

 

[Royalroacho]

Thanks guys. I think my severe will get alot more exposure to people than my conure. Im becoming more involved with the people and birds at the store, hes getting alot of handling by different people there, and hell come back with me when i bring him home. My conure and i were overbonded, but he was good with people, there were some people that he really loved. This may not happen with the severe if he overbonds, and hes large enough to hurt someone.
Ive thought about the potential problem of getting into a romantic relationship. My conure would get jealous and attack women that i brought over. Its possible, but i kind of doubt that im going to try to be in another relationship. I can be around a person for maybe an hour, then they start getting on my nerves, and id rather be alone. Its unpleasant for me, and worse i end up hurting people when they develop feelings for me. I feel guilty driving them away. Id rather be with animals. They dont feel that i dont love them when i feel compelled to write music or paint all day, my conure enjoyed being with me while i did what i was doing, and usually joined in. Its always possible ill meet someone i can get along with, but i think the severe will be interacting with people more regularly, im becoming less reclusive lately.
@birdman666 - i will go out of my way more to pass the baby around. Do you have any advice on socializing the larger macaws? Theyre beginning to tolerate my hand on their cage, and the ruby is becoming curious about me, but the harlequin pushes her away and displays aggresion towards me. They hang on the side on the cage at my eye level, and reach for me with their beak. Ive gently rubbed both of their beaks, and the harlequin will hold my finger in a friendly manner, but not for long. Theyre both suspicious, and fast movements upset them.
Is there any body gestures or sounds i should make? Im not familiar with macaw communication. They seem to like me singing to them, i might bring an instrument.

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[Royalroacho]

Easy friend, April was giving you some important information, trying to help you. Please pay a ttention to the important lesson she’s trying to teach you.

Think about it: when you do have guests over, do you want a bird who actively seeks out people to attack? My grandmas severe did that with me and it was terrifying. And that bird was a rehome. What about a vet visit? What if you pass away? What if you decide to rehome him, only to find nobody will take him because he won’t let anyone handle him? My Parker was a rehome and the previous owner disclosed that a few prospective owners backed out because he bit them - their fault in his case because they pushed him too far. Worse, they didn’t understand that they only got bit because of that. If they knew better, they would have had an amazing bird who will go to anyone...except for black people. I can’t understand why but he hates black people and flys away from any who try to hold him. Very strange.

It’s one thing to do the best you can, maybe come up short. It’s quite another to outright state “I don’t care if he exhibits one person behavior”. Even I read that as you have no interest in discouraging it, even subconsciously encouraging it.

It’s about raising Raising a healthy, happy, well adjusted bird with manners and setting them up for a perfect future. Sometimes what is truly best for the animal is not always obvious or intuitive. But it’s about them, not about you.

And now you know.

I think youre misinterpereting me, or im not communicating clearly. Its hard to imply tone in writing. Im not actively trying to offend anyone, and Im not rejecting socializing the bird, i just very rarely interact with people. Im not sub conciously trying to encourage any behavior that will be harmful to the bird, i analyze my reasons for doing things constantly. I will listen to you guys. My opinions and beliefs arent always right. I think thats the same for everyone. More than 50% of the time, the world is ambiguous. I have a different perspective and existance than most people, im not very social with humans. Even though my conure didnt see many people often, he had a very happy life. I was with him all day, every day for almost 20 years. He was out of his cage exept for the time that im out of the house, which is about 15-20 hours a week at most. I go to school part time, and work from home when i want or need money. The rest of the time im with my animals. The severe (still thinking what to name him) will get more interaction with other people.
I dont mind being challenged or being told im wrong, i examine myself constantly, and come to see i have a mistaken belief or behavior, and change it. It happens often. If i feel like im being insulted or attacked, ill get mad and fight back, but ill still consider what you say and not hold it against you. I dont feel like you know me well enough to determine whats going on in my subconscious, and it kinda pissed me off, but i should still consider what you say. Maybe you see something i missed. In this case, i dont believe im subconsciously trying to monopoloze my birds affection for any reason, im just a loner. I would bring my conure to see my neighboor that he liked, and was happy for him when he made friends. I was very happy when he was happy, and enjoyed seeing him bring his love and curiosity to others. im around people more now and so will be the macaw.

I do need your help. Raising the baby severe and working with other birds is new to me, and im taking it seriously. Im at the shop at least 4 hrs a day with the baby and volunteering,I want to do whats best for the birds. I really dont see them as pets. I think of them as pre sentient non human people that weve brought into our society and lives without consent. I think they can have satisfying, happy lives in captivity, and i want to ensure they do. The other employees love animals, but most of them cant just spend time with the birds. Its a big responsibility to be involved raising them, and important to me. Im grateful to have the chance. Im asking for your help, and maybe ill disagree or get mad and argue, but i appreciate what you are saying and give your advice and experience respect. I know im a socially awkward person and intense, but i dont hold a grudge when im challenged. You guys on this forum have more knowledge and experience than me, and i appreciate your help. I will be more mindful of being respectful when i feel disrespected.


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[Royalroacho]

Also, its been mentioned a few times what will happen if i die. In that case, my sister will take him. I did die for a few minutes and was in a coma for a month a few years ago. Peep (my sun conure) was very stressed, he molted and his feathers grew in with dark bars on them. My family was getting my affairs in order, and my sister took in my pets. She also loves animals, and Peep knew her as he was raised in my parents home when we were children. I will make sure i talk to her and socialize the macaw with her. I have dinner and visit my family on sundays, i will bring him with me so he can get to know them. I know if i do pass on, he will be with someone that loves him.

I also found out that the macaw that was my aunts is no longer at the house. Im assuming she starved it to death like the dogs and cats. Its going to take a while to stop being upset and angry at her. Shell get whats coming to her, shes causing so much pain.

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[Royalroacho]

What do you recommend doing if the macaw comes to think of me as his mate? It did end up that way with my conure. I didnt sunconciously encourage it, but once it happened, i just wanted him to feel fulfilled and loved. It didnt bother me that he had sex with my arm or hand, nor did i recieve perverse pleasure from it. I felt like there would always be a void in his life without a mate, and i filled the role as best i could. It didnt cause problems with him, but it may with the macaw if it happens. I dont want to reject him though. Im going to do a search about this, but subjective morals aside, is it really wrong if he gets along with others? Im starting fresh with the baby, and it will be a while before he reaches puberty, i have time to think about it and learn. At base though, i want him to feel complete in his existance, and if he wants to choose me as his mate, what should i do? To not hurt him? I absolutely dont want to be in a relationship again, but its possible it may happen. I suppose thats why its wrong, i see. This is speculative, but a likely possibility it will happen with him as it did with Peep sice well always be together.

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[chris-md]

Ah, but that should bother you. It’s misplaced hormones, and letting them have that reaction isn’t letting them feel loved. It’s failing to teach a bird boundaries. You aren’t a potential mate and hey should not be led to believe otherwise.

When your bird does this, the typical reaction is to set them back in the cage or play stand for cold shower time. Not a punishment, not time out, just 5 minutes to calm the surging hormones down. Resume hanging out after.

 

[Royalroacho]

Ah, but that should bother you. It’s misplaced hormones, and letting them have that reaction isn’t letting them feel loved. It’s failing to teach a bird boundaries. You aren’t a potential mate and hey should not be led to believe otherwise.

When your bird does this, the typical reaction is to set them back in the cage or play stand for cold shower time. Not a punishment, not time out, just 5 minutes to calm the surging hormones down. Resume hanging out after.

I understand, but in the same way i feel like all their hormonal affection related to us is misplaced and unnatural. I would like to prevent this if possible, though, i need to be educated by those of you with more experience. I want to do whats best for the bird, and need advice to change my opinion if its wrong and will hurt the bird in the long run. Its not happening now, but its good to give it forethought and prepare.

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[chris-md]

Here’s the truth about hormones: you can’t prevent hormonal behavior, and you can’t train it out. What is IN your control is how you respond to it. You can definitely make it worse by reacting in the wrong way! The goal of these interventions is to prevent it from getting worse.

 

[Royalroacho]

Here’s the truth about hormones: you can’t prevent hormonal behavior, and you can’t train it out. What is IN your control is how you respond to it. You can definitely make it worse by reacting in the wrong way! The goal of these interventions is to prevent it from getting worse.

I agree, it would be better if he doesnt feel that way toward me. I think it would be different than my sun, the macaw is a more intelligent bird. My conure was happy to be with me as a mate, it didnt cause problems and i think it may have enriched his life for the better. I dont really know. He was very happy and healthy. But as stated, macaws arent conures. Ill read up on it and take your advice, and when the time comes ill ask for help when i need it. I know how important mating is for most organisms, but i dont want to encourage something mentally and emotially harmful for him out of guilt

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[Birdman666]

Be the parent bird. Not the bird mate.

The teacher. The protector. Ignore the amorous advances. Sorry pal. You got the wrong idea...

Hormonal behaviors are different from being "actively courted" by a bird.

They pretty much ALL masterbate... if it happens on you, that doesn't make you the bird mate, any more than the rope toy or the bell is the mate...

It means it's that time of year... and here we go again...

 

[Royalroacho]

Be the parent bird. Not the bird mate.

The teacher. The protector. Ignore the amorous advances. Sorry pal. You got the wrong idea...

Hormonal behaviors are different from being "actively courted" by a bird.

They pretty much ALL masterbate... if it happens on you, that doesn't make you the bird mate, any more than the rope toy or the bell is the mate...

It means it's that time of year... and here we go again...

Ok, what do you do in particular if a bird starts masturbating on you?

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[Birdman666]

Depends on the bird. Frankly there are times I just ignored it.

Other times I just put the bird back, and told him/her "that's why I bought you a rope toy."

I don't encourage it. However, it doesn't just completely disgust me, or send me into freakout mode.

Conures typically do "the poofy love rub."

Macaws are really just oversized conures. So it happens...

You try not to do things that stimulate them during breeding season.

 

[Royalroacho]

Thanks. Yeah, well see what happens. I would try putting my conure down or in his cage, but he was pretty determined. It didnt bother me, and i figured he had sexual needs and it didnt seem to be having any negative impact, so i neither encouraged nor discouraged it, i just wanted him to be happy

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