birdtricks eclectus guide

[izzieschickies]

i was watching a birdtricks video that just came out, jamie is suggesting that not only do eclectus not need a diet with fruit but also that there was a lot of self advertising that their pellets and freeze dried food are the best option for eclectus. i was just wondering how accurate this is as i know birdtricks is controversial as are pellets and fruit to veg ratios
thanks in advance!

 

[Skarila]

i was watching a birdtricks video that just came out, jamie is suggesting that not only do eclectus not need a diet with fruit but also that there was a lot of self advertising that their pellets and freeze dried food are the best option for eclectus. i was just wondering how accurate this is as i know birdtricks is controversial as are pellets and fruit to veg ratios
thanks in advance!

Wow, that's a shocker. I could bet in my left kidney that it's a big no no for ekkies. Pellets I know should be avoided (can be given a few pieces per day, even that is highly disputable much as I've heard) and ....freeze dried food? What for? Just make a chop, ok?

 

[izzieschickies]

Wow, that's a shocker. I could bet in my left kidney that it's a big no no for ekkies. Pellets I know should be avoided (can be given a few pieces per day, even that is highly disputable much as I've heard) and ....freeze dried food? What for? Just make a chop, ok?

thats what i thought! plus isnt there evidence to show that freeze dried food has like 50% of the nutrients cooked out or something?

jamie just tiks me off sometimes, she didnt give any evidence for the fruit statement other than her assurance that they dont need it when its their main diet in the wild? and the whole video just felt like an advertisment for their overpriced products (im not saying shes wrong about everything but she has such a large audience and gives herself no wiggle room to back up if she makes a mistake and advertises her products very heavily) im sure shes lovely and has lots of relevant knowledge but simply saying everyone else is wrong (including those who have had eclectus for decades???) and practically shunning people who dont spend all day with their birds (due to work/school)
and kept a budgie alone for like a year or more (in a fairly small cage for someone who advocates for aviaries!)

other youtubers like marlene mcohen and tyler rugge make sure that everthing they says is backed up or has some supporting evidence even if its just their experience (and they clarify this), jamie has taken in two eclectus in the last few months and its none of my business (especially since i have only ever had chickens and quail but hope to have a parrot one day so am researching!) but what if one day shes wrong and others are hurt by it?

does anyone else feel this way or is it just me, sorry if this is too controversial, im not trying to start anything just want to know if others feel the same way or have different opinions to me (im always up to listen to a sensible argument) and maybe im making a whole thing out of this just it goes against most of what ive read about ekkies

anyways thankyou for replying skarila

 

[Skarila]

thats what i thought! plus isnt there evidence to show that freeze dried food has like 50% of the nutrients cooked out or something?

jamie just tiks me off sometimes, she didnt give any evidence for the fruit statement other than her assurance that they dont need it when its their main diet in the wild? and the whole video just felt like an advertisment for their overpriced products (im not saying shes wrong about everything but she has such a large audience and gives herself no wiggle room to back up if she makes a mistake and advertises her products very heavily) im sure shes lovely and has lots of relevant knowledge but simply saying everyone else is wrong (including those who have had eclectus for decades???) and practically shunning people who dont spend all day with their birds (due to work/school)
and kept a budgie alone for like a year or more (in a fairly small cage for someone who advocates for aviaries!)

other youtubers like marlene mcohen and tyler rugge make sure that everthing they says is backed up or has some supporting evidence even if its just their experience (and they clarify this), jamie has taken in two eclectus in the last few months and its none of my business (especially since i have only ever had chickens and quail but hope to have a parrot one day so am researching!) but what if one day shes wrong and others are hurt by it?

does anyone else feel this way or is it just me, sorry if this is too controversial, im not trying to start anything just want to know if others feel the same way or have different opinions to me (im always up to listen to a sensible argument) and maybe im making a whole thing out of this just it goes against most of what ive read about ekkies

anyways thankyou for replying skarila

Yeah, famous/well known youtubers can be a hot topic, it seems. I do have quite a few of youtubers that I highly dislike (I will not name any, as it is my own personal opinion, don't want to start a war here either) but the best thing to do in such cases, if I do stumble upon with a video or topic that surprised me in a bad way, I hit that dislike button and carry on with my life. I avoid then watching topics from that person on which I don't agree on. If it is put in the video, I skip the part of self promotion (not like I'd ever be able to order from US or afford it in that matter).

If you disagree with the youtuber, any reaction (even bad one) and comments can actually help them out (now that I think of it, should I keep giving those thumbs down if I disagree or don't like smth?). There's not going to be a single person that I agree with 100% and that is okay. In the world of "fame" I am so used seeing and hearing self promotion. To be fair, this persistence is what helps with their own success or their aims. Or even just to pay their bills.

I like to hear all sides and kind of filter out the good from bad. The bad stuff (lets say the self promotion and the ekkie diet) which is not backed up by any studies or anything, I will ignore. Or, if it intrigues me, I will go on a deep search of the topic until I get a Phd and a Nobel prize for it (that's a joke, but you get my jest). Because maybe I was wrong. I remember back then I would FIGHT people for suggesting to give Apple cider vinegar to birds with yeast in crop. Until our vet suggested the same to our little sick budgie. And since then I make sure to read some claims, posts or even scientific papers on some matter. (I was always like "fite me >:V " and I am not proud of it)

My suggestion is to shrug it off, and instead of fighting with people to just say "I disagree" and try to back up your reason if you're asked for it. If people press, often nothing will change their minds. We also have to accept that there are people who take Jamie's suggestions and words as the one and only, and they might stick to that. While we all can express our opinions but when disagreeing it's best to do it with respect. Instead of sticking to the anger what this youtuber said, best to carry on with the research, or even just have a chat with a reputable avian vet on the matter if you have any doubts. Keep in mind even on this forum you will find people with whom you don't seem to agree, despite them being experienced with birds of specific species you're researching on. I can bet many people are rolling their eyes on my posts and quietly disagreeing with me, hahaha. It's like with Parenting, how to raise up children, hahah...

Sorry for the wall of scrambled text, It's super hard for me to collect my mind into making sensible text :')

 

[izzieschickies]

Yeah, famous/well known youtubers can be a hot topic, it seems. I do have quite a few of youtubers that I highly dislike (I will not name any, as it is my own personal opinion, don't want to start a war here either) but the best thing to do in such cases, if I do stumble upon with a video or topic that surprised me in a bad way, I hit that dislike button and carry on with my life. I avoid then watching topics from that person on which I don't agree on. If it is put in the video, I skip the part of self promotion (not like I'd ever be able to order from US or afford it in that matter).

If you disagree with the youtuber, any reaction (even bad one) and comments can actually help them out (now that I think of it, should I keep giving those thumbs down if I disagree or don't like smth?). There's not going to be a single person that I agree with 100% and that is okay. In the world of "fame" I am so used seeing and hearing self promotion. To be fair, this persistence is what helps with their own success or their aims. Or even just to pay their bills.

I like to hear all sides and kind of filter out the good from bad. The bad stuff (lets say the self promotion and the ekkie diet) which is not backed up by any studies or anything, I will ignore. Or, if it intrigues me, I will go on a deep search of the topic until I get a Phd and a Nobel prize for it (that's a joke, but you get my jest). Because maybe I was wrong. I remember back then I would FIGHT people for suggesting to give Apple cider vinegar to birds with yeast in crop. Until our vet suggested the same to our little sick budgie. And since then I make sure to read some claims, posts or even scientific papers on some matter. (I was always like "fite me >:V " and I am not proud of it)

My suggestion is to shrug it off, and instead of fighting with people to just say "I disagree" and try to back up your reason if you're asked for it. If people press, often nothing will change their minds. We also have to accept that there are people who take Jamie's suggestions and words as the one and only, and they might stick to that. While we all can express our opinions but when disagreeing it's best to do it with respect. Instead of sticking to the anger what this youtuber said, best to carry on with the research, or even just have a chat with a reputable avian vet on the matter if you have any doubts. Keep in mind even on this forum you will find people with whom you don't seem to agree, despite them being experienced with birds of specific species you're researching on. I can bet many people are rolling their eyes on my posts and quietly disagreeing with me, hahaha. It's like with Parenting, how to raise up children, hahah...

Sorry for the wall of scrambled text, It's super hard for me to collect my mind into making sensible text :')

i know what you mean, i only watched the video for a glimpse at some cute ekkies because theres not many videos on them!

i completely agree with everything youve said (and same here with ordering from the us being a no go) i generally just ignore it, i just needed to see if what she said was a popular belief.

id still like to know what the general opinion is with ekkies and a fruit diet (not entirely made up of fruit, but with some) because im still learning and want to learn from as many sources as possible because one day i hope to adopt an ekkie from a bad or non- perfect situation

so any info on that topic is appreciated!
thanks again skarila, you seem like a very nice person! and personally i dont often like or dislike videos but the buttons are there for a reason and it allows for others to see that the issue is contentious and worth researching

(edit-typos!)

 

[Skarila]

i know what you mean, i only watched the video for a glimpse at some cute ekkies because theres not many videos on them!

i completely agree with everything youve said (and same here with ordering from the us being a no go) i generally just ignore it, i just needed to see if what she said was a popular belief.

id still like to know what the general opinion is with ekkies and a fruit diet (not entirely made up of fruit, but with perhaps more or equal to veggies) because im still learning and want to learn from as amny sources as possible because one day i hope to adopt an ekkie from a bad or non- perfect situation

so any info on that topic is appreciated!
thanks again skarila, you seem like a very nice person! and personally i dont often like or dislike videos but the buttons are there for a reason and it allows for others to see that the issue is contentious and worth researching

I think that many with Ekkies would suggest diet with little fruit but far more veggies or sprouts because of the sugar amount. We all know that sugar is really bad for captive birds, they simply cannot use up all the sugar (even if they're free all day, they're often perch potatoes) aaand sugar can make hormones bad. Real bad, like go over the roof bad. Even for conures who love feasting onto fruits in the wild, here my little buddy Pascal will get it more like a treat, even my vet suggested for him to give fruits low in sugar and high in different vitamins (like berries, or even pomegranate which are high in sugar, but also very healthy and high in vitamins), but still offer him fruits daily, just a small amount. But then again, conures are very much different from Eclectuses...

I think the sugar topic goes pretty much all bird species (minus lories, they feast on the nectar so I really don't know how's their diet in the captivity). I'm hoping anyone with ekkies jumps in soon!

 

[izzieschickies]

I think that many with Ekkies would suggest diet with little fruit but far more veggies or sprouts because of the sugar amount. We all know that sugar is really bad for captive birds, they simply cannot use up all the sugar (even if they're free all day, they're often perch potatoes) aaand sugar can make hormones bad. Real bad, like go over the roof bad. Even for conures who love feasting onto fruits in the wild, here my little buddy Pascal will get it more like a treat, even my vet suggested for him to give fruits low in sugar and high in different vitamins (like berries, or even pomegranate which are high in sugar, but also very healthy and high in vitamins), but still offer him fruits daily, just a small amount. But then again, conures are very much different from Eclectuses...

I think the sugar topic goes pretty much all bird species (minus lories, they feast on the nectar so I really don't know how's their diet in the captivity). I'm hoping anyone with ekkies jumps in soon!

yeah i see that! she did say to feed berries if you really want to give them fruit, if i had an eclectus id probably give them a piece of australian fig with their breakfast as figs make up a lots of their diet in the wild, i definatly agree that there should be more veggies than fruit (that was a typo in my other post i meant to say less! i am very tired hahaha) as ekkies are supposedly very prone to hormonal troubles. i do feel like they should have some fruit though and definitely minimal pellets of high quality and species specific (plus highly regarded brands) most likely id throw a few pellets in a foraging toy once or twice a month to fill in nutritional gaps without overwhelming their body

would you say this would be effective? sorry if this has gone off topic!

 

[Skarila]

Well I wouldn't say throwing pellets in once-twice per month, probably much more often would also be okay. I remember reading people would say like "4-5" pieces of pellets (big pellet I presume)

What you wrote sounds pretty close what their diet should look like, I like the idea of throwing in some figs for breakfast, I kind of do similar for my birds, here's fruits in the morning, no fruits/sugar in the evening. As I'd guess they'd use up the extra sugar during the day! (but if I am eating a banana in the evening... and my bird looks so sad at me and he could eat the banana with his eyes.... I cannot say no, I gotta share.)

Check out this prehistoric post, I'd say it's still quite related though. Apparently dry mixes in the evening are not bad, and throwing in a tiny bit of pellets. It also explains nicely what type of pellets would be good for them (apparently Harrison's are not good in this case as they do contain added synthetic vitamins)

Eclectus Diet - Suitable Dry Mixes

A question often seen in the eclectus world, given their unique dietary requirements, is "what dry mix can I feed my ekkie? I'm in ..... situation and can't really feed fresh at the moment". To begin, we must emphasize that it is critical to feed your eclectus fresh food. Usually amongst...

www.parrotforums.com

 

[saxguy64]

The thing about ekkies is their digestive system. Longer and more efficient at extracting nutrients from what they eat, so nutrient dense foods, and commercial stuff that is almost always "fortified" with extra vitamins, etc. cause the problems. Too much of a good thing, so to speak. Add to that, some are much more sensitive to these things than others. Corn for example, is much debated for a variety of reasons. Just a few kernels tend to sit badly with my guy, but others have no issue. He also gets very little in the way of fruits. He really doesn't care for a lot of them anyway, but I've found for him, things like blueberries and dark purple grapes will cause toe tapping within a matter of hours. My previous guy, Patches, would chow anything and everything and never had issues with those things. He was a lifelong plucker before I adopted him, and being without all his insulation, the extra calories were okay because he burned lots of energy to maintain body temperature. (Regardless of ambient temp in the house)

Pellets... Yeah, almost all of them have added stuff, so easier to just not use them. There's a very few decent ones out there that could be used in small amounts. I use Top's, just to get in some of the green kind of stuff that Tucker won't touch. He'll only eat a few per day, and any more than that just get tossed. Again, they have no added nutrients.

Here's something that is my go-to for ekkie friendly fresh food. http://eclectusparrots.net/fruitandveg.html

Hope this helps add some perspective to a much debated subject.

 

[chris-md]

that “prehistoric post” is just a few weeks old

Let’s take a step back: when you don’t have experience with the Ekkie diet, it’s easy to spread misinformation. I’ll reply in a bit - have some interviews to prepare for. In the meantime, saxguy have some great hints on where I’m about to take this thread.

 

[Owlet]

Pellets in an eclectus diet is heavily debated personally I believe pellets are okay AS LONG AS the pellets you are providing are dye free, no added vitamins, no artifical preservatives, and no corn/soy. So birdtricks is not wrong in saying their pellets are ONE OF the best to feed an eclectus. Their pellets are basically just a rebranding of the TOPs pellets which follow all the guidelines I listed above.

Fruit you want to keep at a minimum in their diet because eclectus are very prone to hormonal issues and diets with high sugar can aggravate their hormones. Chop is by far the best option for the eclectus species.

 

[chris-md]

Owlet beat me to it!

From the top: I saw that video. I was...confused as to why they would put out a care guide for a species they've never owned and by their own admission haven't dealt much with. Typically, if you've never dealt with it, you're not well positioned to advise on it and it's best to leave the advising to those who actually have that experience.

That said, most of what they said is not wrong and fairly innocuous; I'd put half of the video in the category of "ekkies really aren't THAT different from other parrots, so whats good for the ekkie is good for the macaw" generally applicable advise.

I have two complaints with it:

1. The pellets statement about pellets 100% being bad. Not necessarily true
2. spraying the feathers with aloe. They're advocating birds with feather destructive behaviors be sprayed with aloe. You're literally taking a foreign substance and putting it on the feathers. Preening=removing foreign substances. If your bird is paying too much attention to the feathers, the LAST thing you want to do is put a foreign substance on the feathers that wil encourage even MORE attention. Given that most ekkies pluck/barber most likely due to hormones (something they also got wrong in the video; they do a disservice not addressing their hormonal tendencies), adding aloe will do NOTHING. If the aloe is meant to sooth the skin, why are you advocating adding to a hormonal bird who doesn't have skin issues?

Diet related:

Reiterating what my friend Owlet said above, nearly verbatim because it is so true and worth repeating. Pellets aren't ALL bad. Most are, but the cold-pressed pellets that aren't enhanced with vitamins or dyes should be perfectly fine. TOPs has basically a complete lock on this particular market, similar competitors fairly recently discontinued their lines, leaving TOPs as the sole manufacturer. Birdtricks/Marlene Mc'Cohen/C4AW/Jason Crean, all have partnered with TOPs to co-brand, perhaps with minor formulation differences. So yes, they's is the best for ekkies, but thats just because its TOPs, and TOPs really is the only ekkie-safe pellet. And likely cheaper if you buy it as TOPs rather than through any of the aforementioned people.

Birdtricks are master marketeres, I'll give them that. And damn good trainers. But their pellets are just TOPs pellets, marked up to accomodate the birdtricks name. As Skarila intimated: do take these youtubers with a grain of salt, because even if its right, its only half the story.

 

[Skarila]

that “prehistoric post” is just a few weeks old

Let’s take a step back: when you don’t have experience with the Ekkie diet, it’s easy to spread misinformation. I’ll reply in a bit - have some interviews to prepare for. In the meantime, saxguy have some great hints on where I’m about to take this thread.

Oh my lord, I must've seen the "join" date instead of the post date! I really feel dumb right now.

 

[Skarila]

Thank you Owlet and Chris for explaining this into detail - every day we learn something new

 

[izzieschickies]

thank you everyone for such informative and kindly worded responses! im so glad to have joined such a knowledgeable and reasonable community, im so glad i posted here ive received so much awesome advice and knowledge from people with years of experience!
thanks again!

 

[RoseateToo]

I've followed BirdTricks since 2010 and to be quite straightforward, I've never found myself aligning with much of what they say. Their training DVDs back then were just the two guys chatting for most of the DVD, with very quick example of clicker training. Then, Jamie got 4 conure chicks that, from my conure experience, should have still been spending most of their time in the incubator... but no, they were photo ops all throughout the house. ...one died of a bacterial infection. they also would pose the conure babies on their cat which is just SO BAD TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO.... because even the best cats can turn on a bird in a split second. A slight nail scratch from the bird, and the cat could turn around and bite it before it even knew what it did. Even scratches can be deadly because of the pasteurella. I am not saying they were bad people, but they were making their buck, and I just don't think they were the Gods that many people believed them to be.

 

[Zoruace]

I've followed BirdTricks since 2010 and to be quite straightforward, I've never found myself aligning with much of what they say. Their training DVDs back then were just the two guys chatting for most of the DVD, with very quick example of clicker training. Then, Jamie got 4 conure chicks that, from my conure experience, should have still been spending most of their time in the incubator... but no, they were photo ops all throughout the house. ...one died of a bacterial infection. they also would pose the conure babies on their cat which is just SO BAD TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO.... because even the best cats can turn on a bird in a split second. A slight nail scratch from the bird, and the cat could turn around and bite it before it even knew what it did. Even scratches can be deadly because of the pasteurella. I am not saying they were bad people, but they were making their buck, and I just don't think they were the Gods that many people believed them to be.

and they still do so but more and more peolpe dont see it
i just dont like birdtricks she gives me bad vibes

 

[izzieschickies]

I've followed BirdTricks since 2010 and to be quite straightforward, I've never found myself aligning with much of what they say. Their training DVDs back then were just the two guys chatting for most of the DVD, with very quick example of clicker training. Then, Jamie got 4 conure chicks that, from my conure experience, should have still been spending most of their time in the incubator... but no, they were photo ops all throughout the house. ...one died of a bacterial infection. they also would pose the conure babies on their cat which is just SO BAD TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO.... because even the best cats can turn on a bird in a split second. A slight nail scratch from the bird, and the cat could turn around and bite it before it even knew what it did. Even scratches can be deadly because of the pasteurella. I am not saying they were bad people, but they were making their buck, and I just don't think they were the Gods that many people believed them to be.

wow youve been following them for a long time, that is such a sad story! honestly they dont really have as much integrity as their worshippers think they do, ive watched a few of the older videos and FOR SURE its mostly just them talking. thanks for your input!

 

[izzieschickies]

and they still do so but more and more peolpe dont see it
i just dont like birdtricks she gives me bad vibes

yeah i get weird vibes from her too!

 

[Zoruace]

yeah i get weird vibes from her too!

its just- idk its wrong to see macaws full on begging for food and jamielieh laughing like its cute-
its just messed up