Biting/ Screaming Problem

[Gado830]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and Im a fairly new parrot owner. I aquired a 13 year old male clectus parrot from someone who needed to find him a new home because he would outlive her. He did not like me in the beginning, mainly because I took him away from his mom, but after he was in my home for a few weeks he fell in love with me and is more attached to me than anyone in my home.

With this attachment, he developed a screaming issue. I understand ekkies are normally fairly loud, but he screams when I leave him, sometimes when I walk into a room, when I shower, etc. He gets plenty of attention, and I read that this could be a flock separation reaction, but even when i remind him I am near he screams. When I am away at college he loves my family and RARELY screams, so it seems to be associated with me.

He also has developed a bad biting problem. He bites me when I put him in his cage or pick him up at times (he has been doing better with a step up training command— although he is not very responsive to training), but he will also bite members of my family when they try to pick him up or put him down and he doesnt agree– and this is VERY strong and aggressive biting to the point where he will break skin.

Any suggestions on how to curb this screaming and biting behavior? I feel like I have tried so many remedies (ignoring, placing him back into his cage, reassuring him, etc.) and nothing has worked. Any advice appreciated!!

 

[ChristaNL]

Whatever method you guys decide on: make sure everybody does the same thing ALL the time or it will not work (as well).


Parrots are very clever and once they spot a loophole they will use it.


We have some stickies on behaviour and training (in those sections of the forum) that may help you.
What works for me (and a lot of people here) is to teach him a different sound (word, nice whistle) to use instead of the scream.
It will not make him more quiet, but your ears will not hurt as much.

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Take this with a grain of salt, since Cairo still hasn't quite hit puberty yet:

We ignored him every time he squawked. And every time he used "hello" (his most common sound), we gave him attention - we repeated what he said then added more words after, we went over to him, we talked to him, etc. You have to be consistent 110% of the time - cannot slip up with even looking at him when he does squawk. Cairo has expanded his vocab since then, and now he uses different words/phrases for different cues. "Cairo" means "I want out/attend me". "Hello" means "Hello, you're supposed to do something, human". We just found out that "Uh-oh" means "alert, something's going on / I need to go to the bathroom". Etc. He only does a quiet greeting squawk when I return home from work now.

That being said, squawking is good. When he got lost, we called out his name, and he squawked back, loud and clear.

For biting with Cairo, he uses it to mean that he doesn't like something (and he typically warns beforehand with body language). I'm not sure what your guy means by biting. But we noticed he started biting my partner when stepping up after my partner kept asking him to step up only to put him in his cage. I make sure 'step-up' is used for both positive and negative associations. I also make sure negative things (like going into his cage) has positive associations. So every once in a while (I try to make it 50% of the time at least), especially with a 'negative' thing, he gets a treat for stepping up. Then if he does step up and get put in his cage, he gets a treat for going in (not for the initial step-up, so he has to wait for the treat), then we practice a few tricks within the cage, so he earns even more treats inside the cage. So now the cage isn't a bad time-out place like it once was, and he doesn't bite when asked to step-up.

Whenever Cairo does aggressively bite, we either tell him "No Bite" and put him in his cage or ignore him (it depends on the situation and context). He is rather independent and is also fully-flighted, but he has begun to care about us. The moment I turn my back to him, out comes his innocent "Hello?" Beforehand, it didn't really matter that we ignored him, but over time, it began to matter to him.

Every bird is different, so I do second what Christa said: be sure to check out the stickies on behaviour and training. They have even more suggestions/ideas/scenarios than what I mentioned.

 

[Kiwibird]

I recommend stick training all large parrots with beaks big enough to cause serious injury. All birds get in moods where handling on the hand is just not a good idea. Remember, parrots are only 1 or 2 generations out of the wild and are much closer to a wild animal than a domesticated one no matter how sweet and loving they can be at times. A stick is a great buffer for the bird to ride on when in a biting mood. Even when our bird is not hormonal/overstimulated/being evil for no apparent reason etc... he still occasionally rides the stick instead of the hand so he doesn't interpret it as a punishment, rather another means of getting around. Please note, if your bird is in a pissy mood and doesn't HAVE to be moved, then leave him alone to calm down a bit. Avoiding a tense interaction altogether is best for bird and human. Sometimes they just don't want to come out to hang out or whatever and that's OK.

 

[clark_conure]

run a search for "time out method" in the search threads at the top. If a bird is super bonded to you and family members and bites, the time out method can be super effective.

It's this in a Nut shell:
***************************

he proper time out method is to get up. Put your bird on the floor or someplace he doesn't want to be and walk away. Not on his cage or playstand. Leave him alone on the floor and make him come back to you.... He has to understand his bite has gotten him "shunned" by his flock.

No playstand or arm of chair or top of cage, but the floor; or some other place he won't want to go, BUT can leave and come back to you from. Once he comes back he will be much sweeter. The walk back gives him time to calm down AND think about what got him there.

It will probably take a few episodes, but after that he will figure out that a bite equals no fun...and separation. And again.......the long walk back makes it sink in and gives him time for the excitement to calm down. This is the real secret of the method. Time to calm down and think. without yelling without shouting, just calm you waiting on him to come back. Don't even look at him/her. till they are back close.

OH also verbal queues, say NO in an authoritative voice as you move him to the floor.
*********************

Hope this helps, many on here swear by it and it still works for me when Clark gets super mad for one reason or another.

 

[EllenD]

I agree with the above, though I call it the "Shunning Method", and there are several threads/posts that explain it in-detail. It important that everyone does the "Shunning Method" every single time he bites anyone, and that everyone in the room at the time it happens literally "turns their backs" to him and totally ignores him in every way for a full 5 minutes (no more, no less, as less time will not prove the point, more time and he'll lose interest)...

Birds hate being on the floor, as they are the lowest thing in the room, and their perceived dominance is taken away from them when they are on the floor. And the only thing they hate worse than that is being totally ignored or "shunned" in every way by "their person" or people. It's more involved than simply "ignoring" the bird when he bites, you literally must "shun" the bird completely and must literally "turn your backs" to the bird, and he must see you turn your backs to him. And if he tries to climb up your leg from the floor or fly to your shoulder, you don't say a word, you simply put him right back down on the floor and again turn your backs to him. You must keep your backs turned and not say a word for the full 5 minutes, and not respond in any way to his screaming or any other noises or calling. And leaving the room isn't really a good idea, as it's much more impactful if you stay in the same room as him with your backs continually turned to him so that he can visibly see that you are purposely "shunning" him...

So anytime your bird bites anyone, that person says whatever verbal cue you choose to say every time he bites, and it must be the same each time, something simple like "No Bites!" (be careful not to yell it at him, simply say it firmly to him in a normal tone of voice), then that person immediately puts him right down on the floor, then that person and everyone else in the room turns their back to the bird and stands there totally ignoring his existence. If he walks around to the front of you, you just turn your back to him again. If he crawls up your leg or flies to your head/shoulder, you immediately put him right back down on the floor and turn your backs to him again without saying a single word. You pretend like he doesn't exist, all the while "shunning" him with your backs to his face...And at the end of the 5 minutes it's important that you don't just go and pick him right back up or start talking to him again. Instead, at the end of the 5 minutes "shunning" period you simply start talking to each other again, or just move to a chair/couch, not saying anything to him, but instead let the bird come to you...At the end of the 5 minutes I typically just walk right to the couch or the nearest chair and pick up the TV remote or go back to whatever it was I was doing, and I don't say a word to the bird, I let them come to me, and when they do THEN I start treating them completely normally again, without referencing the biting again. You don't want the 5 minutes to be up and then you immediately turn around and look at him and start going "Awe, okay, I love you, etc.", because that kind of negates what you just did. Let him come to you and then just act like it never happened...

***It's pretty common that right after you do the "shunning method" and the 5 minutes is up, that the bird again just bites someone right away. If that happens, and it probably will, then you have to do the exact same thing again immediately. You again say "No Bites!", put him right down on the floor again, and turn your backs to him again for another 5 minutes...It's not unusual to have to do this 5-10 times in a row the first time you start doing it, and that is frustrating, but most birds will get it that very same day after you do it a few times in a row...I've actually had some birds who after I "shun" them for the first day 2-3 times in a row, they actually figure it out but want to "test it" to make sure that's what is going on, and so they'll bite me one more time in a curious, kind of inquisitive way, and I'll again say "No Bites!" and put them back on the floor, turn my back to them, the 5 minutes goes by, and then I'll go and sit down somewhere and they'll slink on back to me again and that's it...They get it. They hate being treated like they don't exist, they hate being the lowest thing in the room, and they are extremely intelligent. While a dog doesn't want to be "punished" so they learn not to do something, a parrot actually understands the concept that you're going to take something that they love the most away from them if they do a certain behavior.

***The "shunning method" should take care of the biting issue pretty quickly...However, you can't use it to try to curb the "screaming" issue...Now it's likely that his screaming and his biting are linked, and the biting is just the screaming not getting what he wants, so it then turns into a bite...However, with a bird who is constantly screaming when it comes to "their person" leaving the room, or being in the same room but not doing what they want them to do, you have to be extremely careful to not "reinforce" their screaming accidentally without being aware of it. You must be extremely conscious of your actions and be sure that you don't accidentally "reward" his screaming...

For example, if your bird is in a room and you walk out of the room, and he starts screaming, you absolutely cannot walk back into that room he's in until he totally stops screaming. If you do walk back into the room while he's screaming, then with his level of intelligence, you just taught him that "if I scream and scream and scream, eventually he'll come back". And most people don't do this correctly at all because they lose their patience and become frustrated due to the screaming and they just want it to stop,
so they eventually just go back in the room while the bird is still screaming, which you just cannot do...And yes, he might continue to scream for hours straight, but you just have to deal with it and "wait him out". And the best thing you can do is as soon as he stops screaming and you're sure that he's stopped screaming all-together (like he's not just taking a minute-long break to get a drink) then go back into the room to show him that screaming isn't going to get him anywhere, no matter how long he does it. And this applies to ANY and ALL reasons that cause him to scream because "he's not getting his way or what he wants". For example, if he starts screaming when you get in the shower (assuming that he's not in the bathroom with you when he starts screaming?), just take your shower and let him scream, don't end your shower early or rush it and then immediately go right back to him as soon as you're out of the shower. If he is in the bathroom with you and he is still screaming at you, seemingly because you are getting into the shower and you're going behind the shower curtain and he can no longer see you, do not talk to him continually while you're in the shower to reassure him that you're still there, because that will reinforce his screaming in other situations when you're not able to continually reassure him that you're there. He's going to apply the rule that "If I scream I will get his attention" to any and all situations, not just when you're in the shower where you are actually able to talk to him continually the entire time he can't see you. If he is in the bathroom while you're in the shower and he starts screaming when you close the shower curtain, just let him scream, don't talk to him UNLESS he stops screaming while your in the shower. There's a big difference between simply talking to your bird while you're in the shower and he's in the bathroom at the same time, and your bird screaming his head off as soon as you get in the shower and you continually reassuring him the entire time you're in the shower, with him continuing to scream the entire time you're trying to reassure him...Obviously that doesn't work to stop his screaming, because it's not what he wants. He doesn't want you to "continually reassure him that you're right there" even though you're behind the shower curtain, he wants you to get out of the shower and pay direct attention to him.

 

[EllenD]

****Also, and this is very important to understand and differentiate, there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a bird "Contact Calling" his flockmates to make sure that they are still alive, okay, and still nearby, and a bird actually "screaming" continually because he can't see you and you're not in the same room paying attention to him. You mentioned that his screaming may be a "flock separation reaction", which is another way of saying he's "Contact-Calling" you, but "contact-calling" is not at all the same as a bird who continually screams for you. My birds often "contact-call" for me when I'm not in the same room with them and they can't see me. However, there is no "screaming" involved, and their "contact-calls" are not continual. I have special whistles or words/phrases that I say with each bird, depending on their level of talking capability, and what "whistles" they know. For example, my Green Cheek is an excellent talker, and his contact-call for me is him yelling "My Baby! Gimme Kisses!" until I respond by saying the same thing back to him. Then he stops. With my Senegal it's a "Wolf-Whistle". And with my Quaker, who god love her tries to talk clearly, lol, it's her yelling "Alright! Alright!" (I know what she's saying, lol). However, none of them scream for me continually until I come to wherever they are, nor do any of them start screaming when I leave the room they are in...they will "contact-call" me if I'm gone for more than a couple of minutes and they know I'm still home, but they stop as soon as I call them back...

The other thing you can do that can help with parrots quite a bit is to actually let them know how long you'll be gone verbally. It won't take him long to understand that "I'll be right back" means that you'll be back in a minute or two, and that "I'll be back in an hour" means you'll be back in an hour, and that "I'll be back after work" said to them in the morning means that you'll not be back until later in the day. Birds can totally understand the concept of the amount of time you'll be gone...In fact, you can actually start training him to understand this right away by simply telling him "I'll be back in a minute", then walking out of the room for a minute or two and then coming back, and doing this a few times in a row. My birds actually know that "I'm just running to Sheetz" means that i'm running to the Sheetz convenience store that is a 3 minute drive from my house, and that I'll be back in about 10-15 minutes...You just have to make sure that you remember to tell him where you're going and when you'll be back every time you leave the room...

 

[Flboy]

Wow! There’s a lot of good information, education, that is building up in this thread! I am adding this to my permanent go to list!

 

[Gado830]

I know many of you mentioned not running back to him when he is screaming, and that is the one thing that I DO NOT do when he screams. I have not been going back into my room or acknowledging him at all when he screams- so I have avoided reinforcing it, and it is definitely less than when I got him two years ago, but it hasnt completely stopped so I turned to this forum. I am really interested in trying to reinforce the talking, however, because I havent done that before (I reinforce this while he is out by me and when I am already in my room but not always when I am in a different room). I could try responding to him when he calls out by speaking instead and see if that helps! I have also never tried the shunning method. I have only walked away from him before. Sometimes he bites when I go to put him back in his cage too, so maybe I can take him and put him on the floor and try the shunning method there too. I have communicated this information to my family and they have already started on the shunning method for biting while I am away. I will try it myself when I am home in a few weeks for academic break, and see if responding to him only when he talks in his room helps. I’ll be sure to post an update in late December or January. Thank you all for your advice! I appreciate all suggestions!!!

 

[charmedbyekkie]

we're a community with you to support each other - I always find help here as well!

Just wanted to add, don't feel silly about responding to his talking. When Cairo first joined us, we responded every single time he said, "Hello." It was constant hello-ing back and forth in the house, and I even got my partner to join in when I was away at work. Cairo now loves trying to see which new sounds gets a response (he's just taken to whistling to summon my partner to him). After he learns that a sound gets him a response, you'll then be able to differentiate a contact call from an attention call. In fact, I frequently initiate a contact call with him when I'm cycling with him in his Birdie GoGo on my back.

Do let us know how it goes!! We love hearing stories of fids

 

[EllenD]

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have an answer..

I just caught something you said in that last reply...You said "I don't go back to my room[B/] when he screams", and then also "When I do go back to my room to be with him"...There's your sign!

Your bird's main-cage is located in your bedroom, or a back room of your home? That's a huge part of your screaming issue, especially since you've only had him for a short time period. It totally explains why your bird is screaming so much...

Parrots are "flock animals", and when we're talking about a pet parrot, their owner(s) are their "flock". So it's ALWAYS BEST to locate your bird's main-cage in the "main room" of your home, or the room "where the action is"...Meaning that his main-cage needs to be in the room of your home where you and the others who live in your home spend most of their time when they're home. Usually this is the living room, family room, TV room, Den, etc. By-far the #1 reason that parrots constantly/continually scream is because their main-cage is located in a bedroom, a spare room, or even a room designated as "the bird room" that is away from the main living room of the home...The problem is that your bird knows when you or whomever else that lives with you are home, they can hear you/sense that a member of their "flock" is at home, but they can't see them! This causes parrots an enormous amount of distress and frustration, because once again, they are very much "flock" animals!!! Not only that, but what a lot of new parrot owners don't realize is that "Passive Interaction" means a great deal when it comes to socializing, earning the trust of, and bonding with a parrot, as well as simply making a parrot feel like they are actually a part of "your flock", which to a bird is a crucial part of their lives and a way of life for them.

What I mean by "Passive Interaction" is your bird simply being in the same room as whomever is home, even if they aren't paying direct attention to the bird or interacting with the bird...I'll say it again, they are "flock animals", and simply being in the presence of whatever "flock members" are home and that they know are home brings a total sense of comfort, security, safeness, and overall calmness to a parrot,
and it's simply this "Passive Interaction" of whatever "flock mates" are home by having your bird's cage simply in the room that will actually encourage your bird to happily entertain himself inside of his cage, rather than feeling the constant frustration, anxiety,
nervousness, etc. that he's feeling whenever he knows that someone is home but not in their sight or presence. So the take-away here is that just having your bird's cage in the main room of your home, where you and whomever lives with you spend most of your time, whether you be watching TV, playing video games, listening to music, on the computer, reading, talking to each other, eating a meal, having visitors over, etc., will provide your bird with the innate, instinctual desire to be among his flock, and this will result in him calmly and happily entertaining himself inside of his cage with his toys and foraging activities, and you'll not hear anymore screaming, even if you're not directly-interacting with him...

Of course you want to spend as much time directly interacting with your bird as you can, or at least letting him out of his cage to play on top of his cage, on a playstand, etc., once again in the same room as you or others in your house usually are...But it doesn't mean you need to be constantly entertaining him...He will gladly entertain himself once his cage is located in the main room of your house where the rest of his "flock" spends their time when they are home, that I promise you. However, as long as you keep his cage in your bedroom and keep him away from his flock, he's going to be frustrated, anxious, nervous, upset, sad, and will continue to scream and scream, and certainly will not want to entertain himself with his toys and such...It's amazing and seems petty to a lot of people, but you have to remember and actually really respect the fact that your bird is naturally and innately a "flock" animal, and you and whomever lives with you are his "flock"...And right now he's not feeling at all like he's a part of the flock because his "territory", or his "safe space", meaning his cage, the only thing that is solely his, is located away from where the rest of the flock spends most of their time. As petty as it may sound, this actually often results in not only constant screaming, but also Feather-Destructive Behaviors, Self-Mutilation, and severe depression...

So I highly recommend that you move his cage into the "main room" of your home, the room where you and the others you live with spend most of their time when they're home, usually the living room or similar....You'll be absolutely amazed what this will do, and usually the changes occur almost immediately...Your relationship/bond with him as well as his bond with the others in your house will also improve...