Dandelion & Milk Thistle to lower fat in my Buddy Moses Solomon Island Eclectus

[azflcowboy]

Hello
I use raw almonds as a treat and training tool.
My vet recommended Dandelion and Milk Thistle to his drinking water. To lower the fat content and aid his liver. I add 2-3 drops in the day time feeding enclosure and 2-3 drops to his water in his daytime and nighttime enclosure.
Does anyone have any ideas concerning this additional suplement?
Thank you and God Bless All His Fine Feathered Creations.
Larry Kiceina

 

[LoveMyFids]

Hello
I use raw almonds as a treat and training tool.
My vet recommended Dandelion and Milk Thistle to his drinking water. To lower the fat content and aid his liver. I add 2-3 drops in the day time feeding enclosure and 2-3 drops to his water in his daytime and nighttime enclosure.
Does anyone have any ideas concerning this additional suplement?
Thank you and God Bless All His Fine Feathered Creations.
Larry Kiceina

I have not heard of it being added to drinking water (but I suppose you could). Usually it is mixed with food or given orally by syringe. I don't believe that it "reduces fat". What is does is helps the liver to repair itself when a bird has liver issues, such as fatty liver. I have used it per my avian vet for a bird I have who has high cholesterol, however this is a milk thistle & dandelion LACTULOSE solution mix, which is by prescription only. The lactulose helps deliver the milk thistle & dandelion root extract more efficiently & it is absorbed better this way. Unfortunately, you can only get the lactulose by prescription. According to my avian vet, the best nut to give is walnuts because they have "good fats" which actually can benefit the liver (good cholesterol). If you are feeding a lot of nuts for training, consider switching to walnuts & reduce portion size. Each piece should be no larger than the size of a pea. That's what I was told.

 

[azflcowboy]

I have not heard of it being added to drinking water (but I suppose you could). Usually it is mixed with food or given orally by syringe. I don't believe that it "reduces fat". What is does is helps the liver to repair itself when a bird has liver issues, such as fatty liver. I have used it per my avian vet for a bird I have who has high cholesterol, however this is a milk thistle & dandelion LACTULOSE solution mix, which is by prescription only. The lactulose helps deliver the milk thistle & dandelion root extract more efficiently & it is absorbed better this way. Unfortunately, you can only get the lactulose by prescription. According to my avian vet, the best nut to give is walnuts because they have "good fats" which actually can benefit the liver (good cholesterol). If you are feeding a lot of nuts for training, consider switching to walnuts & reduce portion size. Each piece should be no larger than the size of a pea. That's what I was told.

Hello
I was told that walnuts have too much fat.
I have been using almonds less that 2 a day.
My vet recommended adding to the water, however i think it is being wasted as Moses does not drink the daily water supply i give him in the am and fresh water in pm
Thank you
Larry azflcowboy

 

[LoveMyFids]

Hello
I was told that walnuts have too much fat.
I have been using almonds less that 2 a day.
My vet recommended adding to the water, however i think it is being wasted as Moses does not drink the daily water supply i give him in the am and fresh water in pm
Thank you
Larry azflcowboy

It doesn't work well in water as I believe it doesn't taste great. It's best mixed with food that they like to eat. My avian vet says walnuts & millet both actually have good fats which help the liver. Since I have done what he says (just took my high cholesterol bird for a follow up blood panel), his liver enzymes are back to normal (3 weeks of the dandelion/milk thistle/lactulose suspension 1 drop on food 2x's day & small piece of walnut & pinch of organic millet a day). His cholesterol went down from 331 to 271. Still high since normal cholesterol should be below 200, but it was a very good improvement for 3 wks. The good cholesterol in walnuts is just like good omegas for humans. Walnuts are high in omega 3, as opposed to almonds. Almonds are higher in calcium & Vit. E. I trust my avian vet because he has been a bird specialist for a long time & is known statewide as being one of the best. He only treats birds & reptiles & knows way more about birds physiology then any other vet I've found so far. At any rate, what he has told me to do has worked, so I'm sticking with it. My vet also suggested I could put one drop on food from an omega 3 gel cap supplement like the fish oil pills people take, but I have opted to just do the walnut & millet instead. Oh, also my high cholesterol bird has been on a very strict low fat, low carb., low sugar diet as well for at least a year. He is also fully flighted & flies daily, so that helps as well. Exercise needs to be increased to help lower cholesterol. If your bird doesn't fly laps on its own, you can try to do flapping exercises with it a couple times a day.

 

[azflcowboy]

It doesn't work well in water as I believe it doesn't taste great. It's best mixed with food that they like to eat. My avian vet says walnuts & millet both actually have good fats which help the liver. Since I have done what he says (just took my high cholesterol bird for a follow up blood panel), his liver enzymes are back to normal (3 weeks of the dandelion/milk thistle/lactulose suspension 1 drop on food 2x's day & small piece of walnut & pinch of organic millet a day). His cholesterol went down from 331 to 271. Still high since normal cholesterol should be below 200, but it was a very good improvement for 3 wks. The good cholesterol in walnuts is just like good omegas for humans. Walnuts are high in omega 3, as opposed to almonds. Almonds are higher in calcium & Vit. E. I trust my avian vet because he has been a bird specialist for a long time & is known statewide as being one of the best. He only treats birds & reptiles & knows way more about birds physiology then any other vet I've found so far. At any rate, what he has told me to do has worked, so I'm sticking with it. My vet also suggested I could put one drop on food from an omega 3 gel cap supplement like the fish oil pills people take, but I have opted to just do the walnut & millet instead. Oh, also my high cholesterol bird has been on a very strict low fat, low carb., low sugar diet as well for at least a year. He is also fully flighted & flies daily, so that helps as well. Exercise needs to be increased to help lower cholesterol. If your bird doesn't fly laps on its own, you can try to do flapping exercises with it a couple times a day.

Hello
Thank you for your advice.
Recent reply to one of my post also indicated to be careful as to the advice folks give to me, and i understand.
Your advice appears to be very good.
I am retired police horse and police dog trainer. I noticed over the years that folks tend to think their methods of feed, training and exercise is the Best...i have learned to listen to all and then intelligently apply what i feel will be the Best for my horse, dog and in this case my Moses (Solomon Island Eclectus).
I must admit going to 3 different so called avian vets in north central florida that they all have their ideas and methods and none are the same
Your vet from your post seems to be very very qualified and wish he were closer to my home in Florida
again thank you and God Bless
Larry azflcowboy
ps i wish there was a chat addition to this parrot forum or another site as I would like to hear more of your experiences with our fine feathered friends

 

[chris-md]

Lovemyfids nailed it. Milk thistle more protects the liver from damage. This was given to after my ekkie mysteriously got ahold of an excederin tablet (how he got it is a mystery, the only bottle around was in my car, yet here he was under the dining room room table grinding down on on a tablet). The milk thistle helped protect the liver against the acetaminophen that would damage it.

Dandelion is just a nice leafy green to feed, nothing more.

Neither will reduce your boys weight.

 

[azflcowboy]

It doesn't work well in water as I believe it doesn't taste great. It's best mixed with food that they like to eat. My avian vet says walnuts & millet both actually have good fats which help the liver. Since I have done what he says (just took my high cholesterol bird for a follow up blood panel), his liver enzymes are back to normal (3 weeks of the dandelion/milk thistle/lactulose suspension 1 drop on food 2x's day & small piece of walnut & pinch of organic millet a day). His cholesterol went down from 331 to 271. Still high since normal cholesterol should be below 200, but it was a very good improvement for 3 wks. The good cholesterol in walnuts is just like good omegas for humans. Walnuts are high in omega 3, as opposed to almonds. Almonds are higher in calcium & Vit. E. I trust my avian vet because he has been a bird specialist for a long time & is known statewide as being one of the best. He only treats birds & reptiles & knows way more about birds physiology then any other vet I've found so far. At any rate, what he has told me to do has worked, so I'm sticking with it. My vet also suggested I could put one drop on food from an omega 3 gel cap supplement like the fish oil pills people take, but I have opted to just do the walnut & millet instead. Oh, also my high cholesterol bird has been on a very strict low fat, low carb., low sugar diet as well for at least a year. He is also fully flighted & flies daily, so that helps as well. Exercise needs to be increased to help lower cholesterol. If your bird doesn't fly laps on its own, you can try to do flapping exercises with it a couple times a day.

Hello
Can you advise which milk thistle/ dandelion you prescribe. I do not recall I may have bought the one i use on amazon.
thank you
Larry azflcowboy

 

[LoveMyFids]

Hello
Thank you for your advice.
Recent reply to one of my post also indicated to be careful as to the advice folks give to me, and i understand.
Your advice appears to be very good.
I am retired police horse and police dog trainer. I noticed over the years that folks tend to think their methods of feed, training and exercise is the Best...i have learned to listen to all and then intelligently apply what i feel will be the Best for my horse, dog and in this case my Moses (Solomon Island Eclectus).
I must admit going to 3 different so called avian vets in north central florida that they all have their ideas and methods and none are the same
Your vet from your post seems to be very very qualified and wish he were closer to my home in Florida
again thank you and God Bless
Larry azflcowboy
ps i wish there was a chat addition to this parrot forum or another site as I would like to hear more of your experiences with our fine feathered friends

Thanks, & I have had that issue too. Every vet has a different opinion & as a result different treatments. I agree that the best thing to do is listen to them ALL because the more info. you learn, the better-even if the method doesn't work for your bird's particular issue. Knowledge & experience is our best tool & every bird is different. Alll the species are different too with slightly different dietary needs & metabolisms. For example the bird I have w/the health issues (high cholesterol & high uric acid) is a Rock Pebbler. He is my youngest at 15. I have a Meyers who is 18 that has been on the same diet as the Pebbler for years, but just had her in for a health check & full blood panel. Her results were perfect-no issues at all. Cholesterol fine-even on the lower side & she's not full flighted like my Pebbler who flies multiple laps around the house every day & gets way more exercise. Still, he has all these chronic issues that require a strict diet, sometimes medication, etc. for the rest of his life it appears. He's an Australian grass parakeet type, & the Meyers is an African parrot. The Pebbler has a different metabolism & most likely some genetic predispositions. A perfect example of parrots are not the same. I think in general avian medicine is a field where there is still MUCH to be learned & I believe the specialists who have been doing it the longest & have seen the most with what can work, what doesn't seem to, etc. are the ones that are the best. it seems to be a field where learning from experience is very valuable because there just isn't tons of progression in the science of it & sadly probably fewer going into the specialty at all. Just like it's hard to find a real specialist reptile vet. Usually it's a side thing some general vets do, but they don't see many reptiles daily, so their experience isn't so great & they guess more. Much different than a specialist for years who has seen just about everything you can think of with reptiles. A good bird vet isn't easy to find. I got lucky that there's 2 in my area that are very good, but I like my guy the best because he's the most experienced & also has a conservative approach & a mellow disposition, as opposed to the other who comes off as condescending. I don't like the "you're doing this wrong, so that's why you're having problems" attitude-like scolding me & making me feel like I'm a substandard owner when I know I'm not! My whole life revolves around my birds & I'm always continuing to learn stuff-which is why I joined the forum to begin with. I WANT to see what other vets are telling people & what has worked or not worked for people. The more info. the better & I think it's so helpful for people to share WHAT HAS WORKED especially, so that we can all make the best decisions we can for our birds because the science of bird health is so incomplete IMO. I know everyone's vets are trying different things, so I want to share what has & has not worked for mine & in no way am I saying this way is the right way-but if one way isn't working for someone, maybe try this way because it worked for me.

 

[azflcowboy]

Thanks, & I have had that issue too. Every vet has a different opinion & as a result different treatments. I agree that the best thing to do is listen to them ALL because the more info. you learn, the better-even if the method doesn't work for your bird's particular issue. Knowledge & experience is our best tool & every bird is different. Alll the species are different too with slightly different dietary needs & metabolisms. For example the bird I have w/the health issues (high cholesterol & high uric acid) is a Rock Pebbler. He is my youngest at 15. I have a Meyers who is 18 that has been on the same diet as the Pebbler for years, but just had her in for a health check & full blood panel. Her results were perfect-no issues at all. Cholesterol fine-even on the lower side & she's not full flighted like my Pebbler who flies multiple laps around the house every day & gets way more exercise. Still, he has all these chronic issues that require a strict diet, sometimes medication, etc. for the rest of his life it appears. He's an Australian grass parakeet type, & the Meyers is an African parrot. The Pebbler has a different metabolism & most likely some genetic predispositions. A perfect example of parrots are not the same. I think in general avian medicine is a field where there is still MUCH to be learned & I believe the specialists who have been doing it the longest & have seen the most with what can work, what doesn't seem to, etc. are the ones that are the best. it seems to be a field where learning from experience is very valuable because there just isn't tons of progression in the science of it & sadly probably fewer going into the specialty at all. Just like it's hard to find a real specialist reptile vet. Usually it's a side thing some general vets do, but they don't see many reptiles daily, so their experience isn't so great & they guess more. Much different than a specialist for years who has seen just about everything you can think of with reptiles. A good bird vet isn't easy to find. I got lucky that there's 2 in my area that are very good, but I like my guy the best because he's the most experienced & also has a conservative approach & a mellow disposition, as opposed to the other who comes off as condescending. I don't like the "you're doing this wrong, so that's why you're having problems" attitude-like scolding me & making me feel like I'm a substandard owner when I know I'm not! My whole life revolves around my birds & I'm always continuing to learn stuff-which is why I joined the forum to begin with. I WANT to see what other vets are telling people & what has worked or not worked for people. The more info. the better & I think it's so helpful for people to share WHAT HAS WORKED especially, so that we can all make the best decisions we can for our birds because the science of bird health is so incomplete IMO. I know everyone's vets are trying different things, so I want to share what has & has not worked for mine & in no way am I saying this way is the right way-but if one way isn't working for someone, maybe try this way because it worked for me.

Hello
I enjoyed reading your reply to my post.
Obvious that you and I think alike
So good to meet.
Stay well and God Bless
Larry azflcowboy at ya who