Don't think I've got her diet right.

[Rrrma]

I got my 14yo CAG exactly a month ago from a breeding situation. She was being fed nothing but a cheap bagged seed mix and a vitamin supplement. She seemed very healthy and I do think she was getting what she needed as far as nutrients, just not in its healthiest form.

I have since been trying to switch her to a more natural diet and she eats it. She eats everything I give her, but I don't think I'm giving her enough of the right stuff.

I'm new to greys and I'm used to my eclectus and her needs for a very low fat diet. From what I've read greys need a higher fat diet and more calcium.

I've been feeding her everything I give my eclectus, but with a little more pellets and a little less fruits.

I don't think I have it right though. She seems slightly thinner and she doesn't always have fecal matter in her droppings. After she eats her fresh food she will, but as the day goes on and she hasn't had dinner yet, she loses the fecal matter.

I'm guessing that she isn't getting enough food to create the waste that is feces. And I need to redo her diet.

Right now she gets 2 tablespoons of pellets and a little bit of ground cuddlebone and about 2-3 tablespoons of combined sprouts/fruits/veggies/starches in the morning. Then at dinner time I will give more pellets if the bowl is empty and she gets 2-3 tablespoons of beans/veggies/rice. She usually eats everything and loves it. She will also get some seeds/nuts during playtime(out of cage time) and sometimes I put a nut or two in her pellet bowl in the morning.

I need to get a gram scale, which I have every intension on doing after work today.

She is much more active since I brought her home, and to my hand she doesn't feel lighter, but she looks thinner in the stomach and the lack of fecal matter at certain times of the day makes me think she isn't getting enough fiber/protein.

I need to take her to the vet, I finally found an actual avian vet in town... but I don't have the money right now. I will in a few weeks, but right now I'm living off giftcards I happened to have because I had to fix a leak in my attic that was causing mold

 

[Birdamor]

You need to take that bird to the AV ASAP. I cannot stress enough how urgent this is. What you have described are symptoms of advanced liver malfunction (the lack of feces, the ravenous appetite, the gradual weight loss) and if she has been fed only seeds and a vitamin supplement for 14 years, I would bet you a dollar against a nickel that her liver is in REAL bad shape (doesn't she get green ureates, too?).

I am warning you that the tests are going to be expensive because, in order to accurately determine liver function you will need a bile acid test which, in my area, costs about $120. This will be on top of the examination, the complete avian blood panel, the fecal and, at least, one X-Ray (it tells you if the liver is enlarged and I bet you it is). Your vet might want to do the normal blood work to see if the AZT levels are high and then do the bile acids and that should give you a bit of time to get more money together. But you need to do it. And I suggest you don't wait a single minute to get the appt. If you don't have the money, see if you can use a credit card, borrow or ask the vet for a payment plan (this might not work with a brand new vet but it usually works if you are already a client)

In the meantime, feed her low protein, regular fiber and complex carbs only (no simple carbs - they make the fatty liver condition even worse). Buy aloe vera detox and put half water/half detox formula for her drink. Get yourself some liquid milk thistle (make sure it's the kind that is not made with alcohol) and put about 1/4 of a dropper in her water/detox drink. Feed her fresh dandelion greens and sprinkle half a capsule of dandelion root and half a capsule of methionine on her soft food -some people use SAMe instead of methionine but it's much more expensive. This is nothing more than a detox treatment and it's always beneficial even if the bird is healthy.

 

[Rrrma]

I wouldn't say she has a ravenous appetite, she seems to eat as much as the other birds do. She doesn't have green urates or urine. What comes out is white and clear, respectively. The feces are present, but only during the first couple hours after mealtime and they are usualy reflective of what she ate(orangish if sweet potato, brownish if pellets, greenish if grapes or greens or broccoli).
She doesn't have any discolorations and she is very very active(way more than when she was locked in a cage 24/7/365)

I've been moving her to a healthier diet and it has only been since the change that her feces have changed.

Ill take her as soon as I can, and I can call the vet to see if they would be willing to do a payment plan... but to me it seems directly related to what she is eating, so I dunno.

 

[greycloud]

You've gotten some good advice. I do believe also she needs to see an avain vet asap. Your diet looks fine. You can give her Activia yougart-1/2 teaspoon twice a day. She can have plain or fruit flavored and no need to buy fat free. This has natural active cultures which should help we loose feces. Again the liver needs to be checked. I would definitely add the milk thistle as it really aids in rejuvenating the liver.
When you feel her chest can you see and feel the keel bone protruding with no build up of fat or muscle on either side of the bone? If so she reall needs to be seen asap. Please keep usupdated.

 

[Rrrma]

When you feel her chest can you see and feel the keel bone protruding with no build up of fat or muscle on either side of the bone? If so she reall needs to be seen asap. Please keep usupdated.

If the keel bone is equivalent to our breastbone then yes. That is what I noticed. It does seem muscular, she is a very powerful bird, all muscle, but no fat(it isn't squishy to the touch).

I'm in contact with the vet right now, but they don't offer payment plans or discounts. I'm going to see if they will make an exception and I've also asked how much it is going to be for the visit+xray+bloodwork.

sigh

 

[Spiritbird]

Rrrrma Please do not panic by what has been said here by a non professional. As I have said before let the people who have been trained (vets) diagnose and then get a plan of care for your bird if it is needed. I agree with GC that your diet seems fine for the CAG.

 

[Rrrma]

Thanks. I am easy to panick. Especially right now with being in such a bad place the past few weeks.

After much discussion, I've set up a payment plan with the vet. I will drop her off in the morning for her exam.

Hopefully it won't be serious.

 

[antoinette]

Greycloud and SB have given super advise.
Glad you managed to set up a payment plan with the vet
Praying all goes well. :60:
Good luck and please keep us posted.

 

[Rrrma]

She is at the vet now, so we will see what he says. I wish I could be there for the appointment, but the only time they had open today was during my work hours.

Question about the detox. Is it ok to give it to all the birds, like do a detox every few months?

 

[Spiritbird]

The detoxing of a parrot: If there is a need and if this is ok for a grey you should get the instructions from an avain vet not someone here. You do not even know if your bird is sick yet. Relax and wait and see what happens today.

Aloe detox is good when you are sure of what your are treating. Some people use it prophylactically.

 

[antoinette]

She is at the vet now, so we will see what he says. I wish I could be there for the appointment, but the only time they had open today was during my work hours.

Question about the detox. Is it ok to give it to all the birds, like do a detox every few months?

Keeping our fingers crossed that all goes well at the vet.
Don't feel guilty about not being with the bird for the appointment, we know you are doing your best.:25_coolgu
Please keep us posted

 

[Rrrma]

Finally an update.

Aside from being upset with the vet office for not keeping her checkup appointment at 0930 just because she was dropped off, AND not calling me with any updates, even though I harassed them for updates, AND then the doctor not even being there to talk to me when he said he would be...

Turns out I was more than likely right and I do need to change her diet some. He gave her a checkup and did a fecal smear and things are good except she is underweight. He has sent off her bloodwork which should be back monday, but he doesn't think it is her liver. He thinks if it is anything at all, it is her kidneys. He thinks, though, she is just eating too much fruit/veggies(read water/fiber) and not enough fat/protein. Which is what I was thinking it might be.

He suggested cheese or yogurt or a chicken wing, or maybe even some real meat. Just a little(1/3 teaspoon) a day.

I also talked to the man I got her from. He told me she was on a 14/16% fat/protein diet. That is WAY more than I'm giving her. Plus she sat in a breeder cage all day, but at my house she plays and flies.

So hopefully the bloodwork comes back showing a clean bill of health and it really is just her diet. That is what the vet(who is a cert avian vet) and breeder think it is.

So back to the original question... how do I change her diet? She needs more fat/protein/complex carbs. I got some activia yogurt to give her for now, but what are good options? Should I give her a little scrambled eggs daily? Or switch yogurt/eggs/cheese.

I thought dairy was bad for them?

 

[Spiritbird]

A chicken wing is a good source of protein (with bone). They like the marrow. So are the beans and sprouted beans. Hard boiled eggs or scrambled, cottage cheese and yogurt also. Birds are lactose intolerant so give milk products in small quantaties. The meat and eggs should be cooked well. Remember dairy is not a natural part of a parrots diet. Some other ideas are pasta (cooked or uncooked), nuts (organic in shell), grains (brown rice, garbanzo, quinoa and couscous. I cook some of the above and make a soft mix and add a few drops of hemp seed oil and freeze in small contaiers. I will sometimes add greens and herbs just before giving to Rosie to eat. Yams, winter or summer squash, carrots, broccoli (with leaves) and pumpkin is also nutritious. Try to offer the dark green vegies and the orange ones for vitamin content. Greys need calcium foods. Most nuts especially almonds are good plus what has already been named. Don't neglect organic berries. Try to avoid peanuts in or out of shell.

http://www.ehow.com/list_5983159_foods-african-grey.html


Hope this helps you. Phoenix Landing site has a wonderful cookbook which I have. I mostly ad lib on cooking for rosie though. since you are working I guess weekends are the best time for you to prepare foods. Please do not forget the bird scale since wt. is a problem. I think the best place is birdscales.com That is all they sell and he has been selling bird scales for many years and knows the business. http://birdscales.com/

 

[Rrrma]

Thanks. She is already getting most of the paste, nuts, grains, and dark veggies(plus orange ones, especially sweet potato, carrots, bell peppers, broccoli and the leaves of bok choy).

I think she just isn't getting a high enough portion of the fattier/meater ones.

I don't eat a lot of meat, especially not meat on the bone, so that will be kind of hard to figure out. Could I maybe make a batch of chicken wings/legs and eat the meat, then freeze the bones?

I'd prefer not to give her dairy at all if I can. I was going to make up some birdie bread with lots of eggs and dark/orange veggies to offer. Would that be good?

 

[Spiritbird]

I would not project my diet on my bird. Greys need more protein than other parrots and can be carnivorous critters. They like the chicken meat as well as the bone. You can buy a few already cooked and give her some without eating them yourself or even cooking them. You are missing out on a valuable source of protein if you skip all dairy products. I am really glad you saw a vet and now know what is going on and did not take the advice of a non professional. Is she eating good pellets?

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww26e.htm

Rosie eating her chicken wing. This was her first one and she reallly had fun.

 

[Rrrma]

So I should offer some dairy, even though it isn't a natural resource for them?

And I can give her a whole chicken wing/leg? I'd imagine the small thumb/finger sized ones, not the KFC sized one hehe. She can have the skin and meat?

What do you mean by eating good pellets? Do you mean a quality brand? or if she is eating them when offered?

We are currently on a mix of harrison, roudybush, and lafeber, with some mazuri as well. They get all of them in a bowl and she does eat her pellets. The reason for this is I'm still trying to decide which is best for us, so I mixed all my samples together to see which they liked better. We are leaning towards the harrisons, it seems, but I want to try TOPs as well.

 

[Spiritbird]

Harrisons is one of the best for sure. I take off the chicken skin and offer Rosie only the part with the most meat. It is not an every day thing just a few times a month. A spoon of yogurt once in a while is good for their digestion. I think you are doing a good job. Most important enjoy her and have fun with her.

 

[Rrrma]

I got some small chicken leg/wings and I gave her one last night and she seemed to enjoy the bone. She threw the meat in the floor, but really went at the bone.

I also found a gram scale that I think will do well for weighing them. She weighed 478 right before dinner last night and 457 right before breakfast this morning. I hope that is normal like it is for humans.

I've also been giving her some yogurt and I made some bird bread then mixed it with mashed pumpkin(I can't get the bread recipe right yet, so it ends up either still being mushy or too crumbly. Mixing it with pumpkin or sweet potato seems to fix that for them).

 

[antoinette]

That chicken bone sure went down well, most birds love them.
Try mixing the chicken in with the pumpkin and sweet potato.
Best to weigh a bird once a day, at the same time, even weekly is okay, unless you noticed the bird feels or looks thinner, or is sickly.
Your heading should no be changed
Don't think I've got her diet right. to I think I've got her diet right

 

[Rrrma]

Im going to keep weighing them daily, I know about the same time is best. I went ahead and did a morning weight just to see what it was. Once we get this diet thing regular I'll drop down to once or twice a week.