Driving 250 Miles for my new baby :)

[Anansi]

Enrofloxacin is a broad spectrum antibiotic apparently effective in ailments from gram negative bacteria. I just did a search and a thread from this forum popped up. Some of it seems a little scary, but it's a starting point for some research. MonicaMc obviously has quite a bit of experience with this medicine. Here's the link: http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/37314-enrofloxacin.html

 

[Anansi]

Nystatin is apparently a commonly used drug for birds with yeast infections (candidiasis) . It treats fungal ailments from what I've read. For birds on prolonged antibacterial treatments, nystatin is sometimes prescribed as something of a preventative measure.

 

[GW.Joe]

Hello Everyone,

I am back and need some feedback from Macaw experts

So we pull into the driveway and her husband greets us, we go in the house and sit in the living room, the house seems clean, there is no smell

The breeder sits next to me with a towel in between us, Simon is sitting on the towel, I'm looking at the bird and I see a blue black purple hue on the birds beak..... the breeder sees me looking at the beak and says "oh yeah he has a bruised beak, that's from him flying into the window"

At this point I'm thinking why would you let a baby bird fly in a room where he could injure himself?

So after spending a half-hour with the birds it didn't take more than a few minutes to realize that they just let the birds do whatever they want to do...

For example, since the birds are learning to fly they have learned to climb to the top of your head to use your head as a launch point, now that may seem funny but what kind of a bird owner allows a baby bird to learn to do that whenever it wants? Both birds continuously try to climb on top of people's heads to fly away from the breeder and her husband when her husband tried to remove one of them from his head the bird latched on to his ear and would not let go...

Then I watched the bird fly to the ceiling and land on a Japanese-style paper globe lamp, the lamp is attached to the ceiling (I mean an inch off the ceiling) so you look up and there's a baby Macaw with his claws puncturing this paper globe hanging from the ceiling, and I'm thinking if that bird falls from that height it's all over...

So the husband gets up and stretches to get the bird, now all of a sudden they separate them and they take Garfunkel to his cage in the next room so they're trying to get us to focus on Simon, now when you look at Simon and Garfunkel, Garfunkel is smaller but has very good balance and can walk and fly very well, however when you look at Simon the one with the bruised beak, even though he is bigger he looks shaky didn't try to fly once and had a very distinct twitch

Now during this whole time I had been videoing on and off as time went on it seemed like the twitch got worse, the very first time the bird twitched I must've looked like I was looking at it because she immediately said "oh that's something they do when they're tired"

Well after reviewing the video I didn't really get the twitch when the birds head was involved, in the beginning seemed like the left wing would twitch but not both at the same time (which would seem more normal) the reason I'm calling it a twitch is first of all when it got its worst the birds
head would twitch at the same time as left wing would twitch, it became very distinct

The left wing would twitch and at the same time the birds head would twitch left

So to sum it up it seemed like they're trying to get us to take the one that flew into the window (she kind of told us that was the calmer bird)

Anyway as the twitching got worse she said the bird needed a nap, so I said how about we go get something to eat and come back in about an hour she said that would be great that the bird would be refreshed from sleeping

I have another video of Garfunkel, HE PICKED ME !!, he came right to me, got right on my hand and came up to my face and stuck his tongue out and kissed me!!

BTW, Garfunkel never Twitched even once......

BUT, how can I TRUST this woman to not let Garfunkel GET HURT while I wait for her to finish weaning ???

While we were standing in the kitchen feeding Simon, Garfunkel flew from the living room and tried to make it to the kitchen.... HE FLEW RIGHT INTO THE WALL AND FELL TO THE GROUND FROM 5 FEET UP THE WALL

Please watch this video of Simon and tell me if you think he is hurt, if you look closely you can see the bruising on his beak!!
(Don't forget to set the video to 720 and watch it full screen)

Thanks for everyone's support!!

Joe

[ame="http://youtu.be/GK9up5YCtxA"]The one that's BRUISED - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MikeyTN]

He looks good from the video! Did they not have curtains on the window during flying lesson? What they do IS good for the baby macaw to allow them to take flight and while young they will fly into things, that tend to happen but they will learn as time goes on. Our houses are not meant for flight lessons for a macaw unless they have a huge area for them to fly in, there's not much you can do to give flying lessons but inside the home like that. It is time to teach them manners of how to step up and such right now. It still can be accomplished cause they're rather young yet. So right now I don't see anything to be too concerned about. Did they show you the parents and how they were being bred???

 

[GW.Joe]

Ok, so here is a video of Garfunkel, in the beginning of the video I put my hand out to both birds and Garfunkel got right on my hand and kissed me

Simon seems larger but less developed, can't fly yet, and makes a "whimper" mommy call all the time, and whatever the twitching thing is
(I know it was not in the video, but every time he did it his head would twitch left)

Garfunkel seems smaller, but much more developed, walks and flies better, and is more vocal, Garfunkel came to me when I offered him my hand and kissed me when asked him to

If you don't think there is anything wrong with Simon, and its just my inexperienced eye, can you look at a video of Garfunkel and see which one you like better?

I told the breeder I would think about it and call her ASAP, We are going to look at another baby GW in Delaware in the morning (Sunday)

He is here: Avian Nursery

Thank You

Joe

Garfunkel

[ame="http://youtu.be/5dll6s25ADo"]Garfunkel - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Anansi]

Hey, Joe.
I'm not a macaw expert, of course. But that said, I agree with Michael. They ARE doing what's right for the babies by allowing them to fully fledge. And, like Michael said, at that age they will fly into things. I would hope, however, that they are covering the windows. Garfunkel flying into a wall while you were there doesn't worry me as much as Simon having flown into a window. Seems to me that could possibly explain the bruised beak. (I couldn't quite make out the bruise in the video, though.) If he doesn't understand the concept of glass, yet, it's no surprise that he would have flown into the window at speed. Maybe you could request that she close her curtains while the birds are out of their cages?

As for the twitch, I only saw it distinctly near the beginning of the video. But if you were seeing that twitchy behavior consistently throughout, I definitely understand your concern. I wonder if it might possibly be a side effect of the medication? But there's also the chance that it could indicate some level of nerve damage if it was something incurred when he crashed into the window. Especially since you noticed a corresponding twitch between the head and left wing every time he turned to the left.

I'm glad to hear that Garfunkel chose you! Any video of him? And did you make the deposit, or have you held off?

 

[Anansi]

Oops! Obviously sent that pm before your second post. Lol!

I have trouble telling the difference between the two as well!

Off to Delaware later today as well? Quite the full weekend! Looking forward to more videos!

 

[Kiwibird]

Hi Joe. I am excited to hear Garfunkel 'chose' you I think I would have to agree with everyone else that the 'issues' that are happening are fairly normal. An immature immune system makes a bird susceptible to bugs and inexperience makes them clumsy. Baby animals and humans get bumps and bruises and little sicknesses. Sometimes things happen that are no fault of the breeder or neglect on her part just due to these birds being very, very young. Heck, my parents highly skilled, 40 year of indoor flying experience birds occasionally crash. It happens. As for illness, that happens too (as absolutely frightening as it can be). Kiwi was an older bird of course when we got him, but he came home with a pretty bad URI that took 2 rounds of antibiotics to knock out. At least this lady was able to recognize the birds were ill right away, take them to a vet, get them on treatment AND be honest about it. To me, thats a sign of a reputable and good breeder. We weren't informed of the possibility Kiwi could be ill let alone an infection that needed back to back antibiotics to fully treat. If it were ME, I may request that a term of the sale be having Garfunkel see a vet of YOUR CHOICE to get a complete workup or be allowed to view his full medical records and have them examined by a vet of your choice if that will ease your mind. In any case, I think going to see the 3rd bird tomorrow will be a good thing. It will give you the comparison outside this breeders home to see if Garfunkel is really the baby you want to bring home. I guess I was lucky in that when we were looking, Kiwi was the only bird who came up who sounded like one we would potentially want to bring home. It must be so difficult (in a kind of good way) to have all these different birds to choose between:22_yikes: But sometimes when you know you know, and if Garfunkel chose you, I don't know if you'll be able to get that sweet little red and white face out of your head

 

[Freespin]

How exciting! I am a bit jealous

Now i would go for the bird who chose you, no questions!! My baby eckie flew into walls and windows and i worries a lot but everyone reassured me it just happens as they are learning. Now obviously birds develop at different rates but i dont get a good vibe from what you have said about the bigger bird. Maybe i am just overly cautious after what i went through with Nelson though. But dont get the bigger one just because the breeders are pushing you in that direction, sounds like you are pretty happy with the little guy and he seems pretty happy with you too =D

Let us know how you get on with the second breeder though!

 

[JerseyWendy]

Joe, I saw a few things that bothered me. The twitching I DID notice (the wing twitch) is something both Ripley and Niko do when they are affectionate and/or tired while ON me. They don't do it if they're either in their cages or on their Java trees, ONLY if on me. However, none of my birds' heads ever twitch.

If you noticed any kind of head twitching, I'd be concerned. Who's to say that Simon didn't sustain some sort of neurological damage while flying into things head on?

My jaw hit the floor when I saw how super fast Simon was being fed. Granted, Macaws' feeding response are very strong, but gees, he literally squirted 60ml down his throat in less than 2 seconds. And twice (and a half) times.

IMO Simon should have been put up in his cage right after being fed to prevent him from doing something "stupid" while his crop was full to the brim. Whenever I was visiting Niko while he was still at the breeder, I was not allowed to handle him immediately after he had been fed. Perhaps she was overly cautious, but she explained to me that she didn't want to risk injury while the crop was full, and always had me wait a minimum of one hour before allowing me to take him out.

Lastly, I did not approve of the chain thingy with the bell attached that she offered to Garfunkel (one of the foot toys). Those bells are NOT stainless, and big macs' beaks can make short work of those things. The Boing (spiral rope thing) had a ton of frayed rope on the top, which is a huge hazard of getting toe nails caught.

Please pardon my over analysis here, I'm only pointing out what bothered me.

As for them flying into things, yes, it is to be expected until they are fully coordinated. However, I did not notice ANY macaw proofing, which would include putting up shades, lowering the curtains, and protecting valuables in the house for the birds AND for my own sake.

Listen to your heart, Joe! :smile015:

 

[MacawLoverOf3]

Wing flapping is normal in babies but the head involved???????? That is something you need to discuss and possibly have a video to show an avian vet.

Yes, that was super fast for a feeding. They said he just got 150cc's. Looking up in 'The Bible' babies should be getting a maximum of 120cc's from day 41-70 then it drops down to 100cc's from day 71-79, 70cc's from day 80-120. Not sure what the ages are on these two but this could explain the large crops and you need to be concerned if they have been over stretched.

Learning to fly is very important and that unfortunately is a part of learning how to do it right but what I did not like is when she offered the baby something to eat, she doesn't hand the baby 'real' food, she pulls something from a package. She should be introducing real, fresh foods so the birds recognizes it and learn to start eating that too not just taking the easier way out and opening up a package. When was the last time you saw a pellet grow on a tree?

Garfunkel will be the more adventurous of the two whereas Simon will be a little more reserved I feel. I think it benefits all birds when they have the opportunity to grow up with another baby bird so this is another good part.

 

[Birdman666]

Didn't have a computer, so I went in to use my work computer to respond.

I have to laugh at a couple of things.

First was memories of my CAG. One of the first phrases he ever learned at our house was "YO! ADRIAN!" cuz he was CONSTANTLY face planting into things. "Yo! You should see da other bird!"

He could launch just fine, and was a strong flier. Turning? Not so much. Slowing down? Try "bouncing off." Landing? See heading "bouncing off"...

Keep in mind that this is the same bird that as a coordinated adult, who faceplanted into the second story of my neighbor's house. [Tusk! You were flying straight and level into the side of a building! Could you not tell that you were about two feet below the roof line?!] He's that clumsy as an adult, you can only imagine what he was like as a baby...

So, yeah, IT HAPPENS. You still need to let them fledge and learn. All sorts of confidence problems happen if you don't, including some psychological plucking disorders...

The other thing I was laughing about was the thing about "macaw proofing the house... The legal objection would be "Assumes facts not in evidence." (i.e. that there is such a thing!)

Oh, there's hide all your breakables...

And there's Oh $hit! He's chewing that up...

But macaw proof?!

 

[Birdman666]

Hey, Joe.
I'm not a macaw expert, of course. But that said, I agree with Michael. They ARE doing what's right for the babies by allowing them to fully fledge. And, like Michael said, at that age they will fly into things. I would hope, however, that they are covering the windows. Garfunkel flying into a wall while you were there doesn't worry me as much as Simon having flown into a window. Seems to me that could possibly explain the bruised beak. (I couldn't quite make out the bruise in the video, though.) If he doesn't understand the concept of glass, yet, it's no surprise that he would have flown into the window at speed. Maybe you could request that she close her curtains while the birds are out of their cages?

As for the twitch, I only saw it distinctly near the beginning of the video. But if you were seeing that twitchy behavior consistently throughout, I definitely understand your concern. I wonder if it might possibly be a side effect of the medication? But there's also the chance that it could indicate some level of nerve damage if it was something incurred when he crashed into the window. Especially since you noticed a corresponding twitch between the head and left wing every time he turned to the left.

I'm glad to hear that Garfunkel chose you! Any video of him? And did you make the deposit, or have you held off?

Agreed.

The twitch you are talking about is a normal macaw baby bird thing. They all do that. They aren't all there yet...

And they are really strong fliers who aren't all there yet... hence a few bruises. It's normal.

 

[Birdman666]

Dude, seriously?! I think Garfunkle's a find!

Outgoing, confident, already a good flier, curious, gently stepping up and giving kisses for strangers... so totally people oriented...

If your kid is learning to ride a bike, and falls down and skins her knees, does that make you a bad parent?! You are way over thinking this...

The bird is healthy, socialized, and already bite pressure trained. There isn't a lot more you can ask of a breeder.

 

[JerseyWendy]

.....

But macaw proof?!

Yes, Macaw proofing IS possibly, and it doesn't require a brain surgeon to draw the curtains or put some make-shift curtains in place to PREVENT them from crashing into windows - which CAN hurt and/or kill them. :09:

And sorry, but head twitching is NOT normal for a macaw, unless both of mine are abnormal, they've never done it.

 

[Birdman666]

I was kidding... (Semi-sort of.) If you had curtains up, he would have something to cling to, after bouncing off the window.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I was kidding... (Semi-sort of.) If you had curtains up, he would have something to cling to, after bouncing off the window.

Maybe in TX. :54:

We put a wide cellular shade up over our enormous front window. The birds would bounce, yes, but not cling, and not crash into the glass.

Knock on wood, I've only ever had one single bird actually fly into that window. It was a male, young Ekki, and I think I needed more medical attention than he did.

 

[RavensGryf]

Joe what a fun (if not exhausting) day you had! They're both super cute!!

They're beautiful babies, and not saying they're not healthy, but I'd beware of the head twitch. I didn't really see much on the vid, but you know what you saw...
Head twitch COULD BE NOTHING... BUT, OTHER THINGS THAT "CAN" CAUSE HEAD TWITCH are:
As people have said said neurological damage of some kind, something irritating the sinus cavity like an infection, and... the all too common Bornavirus! OR, again it could be nothing significant or lasting. But then as Birdman said, it's normal at that age. Hopefully it is just the normal movements at that age and nothing underlying as well.

They are super cuties Joe, and if you choose one, I'm sure you'll be in bird heaven!!

I PERSONALLY was much more impressed by the website for M&D Bird World. Hard to always tell by the look I know, but looks professional, and fwiw, at the bottom of the site it states their awareness about deadly viruses which is really more important than many people realize.

Can't wait to hear later today what you found at M&D to compare experiences. Either way, as people have said already, YOU WILL KNOW when you've found your new family member :07:

 

[Birdman666]

.....

But macaw proof?!

Yes, Macaw proofing IS possibly, and it doesn't require a brain surgeon to draw the curtains or put some make-shift curtains in place to PREVENT them from crashing into windows - which CAN hurt and/or kill them. :09:

And sorry, but head twitching is NOT normal for a macaw, unless both of mine are abnormal, they've never done it.

It depends on the age. I've had babies that do that stuff all the time...

That baby BTM was doing that stuff all weekend.

I've had two amazons that actually were concussed from flying into something. They become lethargic, withdrawn, quiet, and somewhat unresponsive. There was no head bobbing...

 

[RavensGryf]

And sorry, but head twitching is NOT normal for a macaw, unless both of mine are abnormal, they've never done it.

Good luck Joe! You are getting both 1) it's normal, healthy and 2) hmm beware

Though I admire birdman's experience, maybe the movements in the vid weren't clear enough to say what it was if anything?

On this one, I tend to agree with Wendy's concern.
Although Wendy, I think Birdman was talking about movements of very young macaws only?

Also, it leaves me uncomfortable also at the fact they were trying so hard to get you to say yes to Simon, INSTEAD of Garfunkel, even though she told you you'd get to choose! Why? What do they feel is wrong with Simon that they have to get him out the door first?

Oh maybe I'm just overthinking, but that's what I tend to do when it's something of this importance.