For Anyone Thinking of Hand-Feeding an Unweaned Baby Bird Without Experience

[EllenD]

There are always going to be exceptions with anything we talk about, no doubt about that...People get lucky too...Just like the people who insist on cooking with their Teflon-coated set of pots and pans with their bird in a different room while they're doing it, rather than going to TJ Maxx or Ross, or online anywhere, and spending $30-$50 on a really nice set of Ceramic non-stick ones. The temperature they cook at doesn't get quite hot enough to off-gas the Teflon, and their birds don't die...And they might get away with this and do it over and over again with no issues...And then one day they decide to make an omelet and they find their bird dead in the bottom of it's cage.

No, there is NO WAY to stop bird breeders from selling unweaned babies, in-fact it seems to be getting worse, as we've had a couple people come here recently who were actually buying baby birds who were only 2-3 weeks old!!!! That's ridiculous, I'm sorry, but that is a breeder wanting absolutely no part in anything, as 2-3 weeks is the age you have to pull them from the nest-box if you want to hand-feed them. Breeders selling them that young don't even want to start the hand-feeding process at all, they just want them GONE, and if they can still make a couple hundred dollars per baby doing it that way then they're thrilled, and they certainly don't remove the nest-box either, as there is now room for another clutch! But you're right in that we won't ever stop this practice...

So, if we can't stop bird breeders from selling unweaned birds, the least we can do is educate people and let them know what they are getting into, as these breeders certainly aren't going to fill them in! Do you think a breeder trying to ditch 2-3 week-old baby birds is going to tell prospective buyers that they have to buy a Brooder to keep them in? Or have to constantly be measuring the temperature of the formula and have to constantly be re-mixing it when the temperature drops below 104? Nope. They just tell them how "easy" it is, and they usually lie to the people and tell them that "hand-feeding a baby bird is the way you get the closest bond possible with them" blah blah blah. All they care about is getting rid of the babies and collecting their money. So in this situation I'd rather educate people properly, tell them the truth, and then allow them to make an educated, informed decision rather than them simply trusting a lying breeder and thinking that hand-feeding a 2-3 week-old baby bird is going to be easy...Unless you yourselves have ever aspirated a 2-3 week-old baby bird and had them die instantly in your hands, then you can't understand how heartbreaking, frustrating, and guilt-ridden it makes you feel...And the one time that I had this haen I had been breeding and hand-feeding baby birds for well-over a decade.

I just don't think that making posts about the "happy-outcomes" of making this terrible decision and posting photos of your baby birds that you hand-fed with "no experience", and that you frankly got very lucky with, fortunately, is the right message to send people. You can feed your bird an all-seed diet with junky seed-mix you buy at Walmart and nothing else for years and years and for whatever reason your bird might be one of the lucky ones who never develops Fatty Liver Disease, never becomes Obese or grows Lipomas all over their body, and who lives to it's expected lifespan. Does that mean that it's okay for everyone to feed their birds nothing but cheap seed-mix?

***And I'm not saying that there aren't situations where you cannot avoid hand-feeding a baby bird with no experience, or that it isn't necessary to save a baby bird, or if you walk into a breeder's home and find horrible conditions and neglect/abuse, and it isn't better for the babies to leave with you even if you have no experience hand-feeding a bird. What I'm talking about is the most-common scenario we see people bringing home unweaned baby birds in, and that's simply people who are looking at several different breeders who have baby birds, where they have a choice, and they are purposely choosing to buy an extremely young, unweaned baby bird that they are going to have to hand-feed for weeks to months, ONLY because they are either saving $100 or so over the breeders who are selling the already-weaned babies, or because they can bring the unweaned baby bird home much sooner than waiting for the fully-weaned babies to be ready, or because they get it in their heads, for whatever reason, that they will "form a closer bond to a bird if they hand-feed it from very young". These are the people that I would like to see become educated and be given the correct information BEFORE they make a decision as to which bird to buy.

 

[LordTriggs]

No, there is NO WAY to stop bird breeders from selling unweaned babies,

well there is one way of stopping it but from what I hear governments are often against wanton acts of violence and "cruel and unusual torture"

 

[Terry57]

Years ago I learned to always leave room for an exception. While I fully agree making the decision to hand feed a baby bird is a responsibility that can go tragically wrong in at least a hundred different ways, it's more complicated than that.

On one hand, we probably agree, it's morally wrong to support breeders with less than the best motivations and practices. Selling an unweaned baby bird obviously speaks poorly of the breeders character......and yet......when you see a clutch of fledglings caught up in the sleazier side of the parrot trade through no fault of their own how can you not step back and take a closer look? Transitions aren't easy, what we consider abuse today was once common practice, hopefully we learn and move forward. In a perfect world no breeder would consider selling an unweaned baby parrot but our world is filled with lovely imperfections. Sometimes we choose to rise up and do the right thing to the very best of our abilities. I chose to hand feed a baby quaker parrot and I had no prior experience. My beautiful mistake is a two year old adult blue quaker parrot named Wilson, he's a beloved family member. That said, I scienced the hell out of hand feeding before I brought Wilson home and I would not have hesitated to consult an Av-Vet at the first sign of trouble. I'm sure if you look, Wilson isn't the only hand feeding success.

I remember when you brought Wilson home, and truly believe you saved his life by finishing his handfeeding. He really hit the birdie lottery when you found him and fell in love. I would love to see another pic of Baby Wilson, he was and is so precious!

As dear friend Allee eloquently stated, there are always exceptions!

My mom hand-fed three baby Goffins from separate clutches, each abandoned by their parents after 3 to 5 days. First time the chick was discovered cold and bluish third day post hatching. Made the decision to permanently remove after discussion with a breeder friend. Thankfully mom was a quick-study and her boss permitted copious feeding breaks at work! All thrived and 23 years later are happy and healthy.

A fully dependent Gabby:

Scott, your Mom is amazing! Gabby and the others were so lucky to have her. What an adorable baby Gabby was!

Thank you both for sharing success stories.

 

[Sandy19]

The reason I bought an unweaned bird is because the breeder made it look like a simple thing to do, it wasn't about the price of the bird or anything. And it was simple as far as getting the temperature and consistency of the formula right, but what they failed to tell me was that even the most experienced breeder could accidentally cause a baby to aspirate. For just that reason alone I would never buy an unweaned bird again. Weaning the bird was easy, however, thanks to the advice from Silversage. The breeder told me to give her pellets mixed with Cherrios, no mention of anything else. Thankfully I found out about abundance weaning here because the breeder never metioned it. For that reason I have a healthy bird with a healthy diet other than not being fond of pellets.

 

[Terry57]

Allee is having a hard time getting pictures uploaded, and asked me to post them for her
My pleasure!

Wilson:

I can attest to what a difference she made in Wilson's life.

 

[Allee]

Thanks for posting the baby pics, Auntie Terry.

There are always going to be exceptions with anything we talk about, no doubt about that...People get lucky too...Just like the people who insist on cooking with their Teflon-coated set of pots and pans with their bird in a different room while they're doing it, rather than going to TJ Maxx or Ross, or online anywhere, and spending $30-$50 on a really nice set of Ceramic non-stick ones. The temperature they cook at doesn't get quite hot enough to off-gas the Teflon, and their birds don't die...And they might get away with this and do it over and over again with no issues...And then one day they decide to make an omelet and they find their bird dead in the bottom of it's cage.

No, there is NO WAY to stop bird breeders from selling unweaned babies, in-fact it seems to be getting worse, as we've had a couple people come here recently who were actually buying baby birds who were only 2-3 weeks old!!!! That's ridiculous, I'm sorry, but that is a breeder wanting absolutely no part in anything, as 2-3 weeks is the age you have to pull them from the nest-box if you want to hand-feed them. Breeders selling them that young don't even want to start the hand-feeding process at all, they just want them GONE, and if they can still make a couple hundred dollars per baby doing it that way then they're thrilled, and they certainly don't remove the nest-box either, as there is now room for another clutch! But you're right in that we won't ever stop this practice...

So, if we can't stop bird breeders from selling unweaned birds, the least we can do is educate people and let them know what they are getting into, as these breeders certainly aren't going to fill them in! Do you think a breeder trying to ditch 2-3 week-old baby birds is going to tell prospective buyers that they have to buy a Brooder to keep them in? Or have to constantly be measuring the temperature of the formula and have to constantly be re-mixing it when the temperature drops below 104? Nope. They just tell them how "easy" it is, and they usually lie to the people and tell them that "hand-feeding a baby bird is the way you get the closest bond possible with them" blah blah blah. All they care about is getting rid of the babies and collecting their money. So in this situation I'd rather educate people properly, tell them the truth, and then allow them to make an educated, informed decision rather than them simply trusting a lying breeder and thinking that hand-feeding a 2-3 week-old baby bird is going to be easy...Unless you yourselves have ever aspirated a 2-3 week-old baby bird and had them die instantly in your hands, then you can't understand how heartbreaking, frustrating, and guilt-ridden it makes you feel...And the one time that I had this haen I had been breeding and hand-feeding baby birds for well-over a decade.

I just don't think that making posts about the "happy-outcomes" of making this terrible decision and posting photos of your baby birds that you hand-fed with "no experience", and that you frankly got very lucky with, fortunately, is the right message to send people. You can feed your bird an all-seed diet with junky seed-mix you buy at Walmart and nothing else for years and years and for whatever reason your bird might be one of the lucky ones who never develops Fatty Liver Disease, never becomes Obese or grows Lipomas all over their body, and who lives to it's expected lifespan. Does that mean that it's okay for everyone to feed their birds nothing but cheap seed-mix?

***And I'm not saying that there aren't situations where you cannot avoid hand-feeding a baby bird with no experience, or that it isn't necessary to save a baby bird, or if you walk into a breeder's home and find horrible conditions and neglect/abuse, and it isn't better for the babies to leave with you even if you have no experience hand-feeding a bird. What I'm talking about is the most-common scenario we see people bringing home unweaned baby birds in, and that's simply people who are looking at several different breeders who have baby birds, where they have a choice, and they are purposely choosing to buy an extremely young, unweaned baby bird that they are going to have to hand-feed for weeks to months, ONLY because they are either saving $100 or so over the breeders who are selling the already-weaned babies, or because they can bring the unweaned baby bird home much sooner than waiting for the fully-weaned babies to be ready, or because they get it in their heads, for whatever reason, that they will "form a closer bond to a bird if they hand-feed it from very young". These are the people that I would like to see become educated and be given the correct information BEFORE they make a decision as to which bird to buy.

Ellen, such passion is always appreciated, thank you but respectfully, you made your point in the first post in your thread, I merely wanted to flip the coin just long enough so that our members might see the other side. The suggestion that the thread become a sticky motivated me to take the opportunity to bow to the folks who aren't afraid to take a chance on a few feathered wonders that would otherwise slip through the cracks. Perhaps I'm mistaken, I have been away for a few months but I'm pretty certain ParrotForums, in most circumstances, has room for more than a single opinion. I want all our members to feel welcome and more than that to be able to tell their stories without fear of being bludgeoned.

Hmmm, frankly, I have little faith in luck, certainly not enough to rely on it, instead I used every available resource and Wilson didn't just survive, he thrived. I can't take all the credit for raising sweet Wilson, two rescued quakers helped by teaching him the English language before he was six months old. The downside, my flocks' communication skills have evolved, no off switch, they only stop talking to sleep.

Ahhh, and since you mentioned it, allow me to rephrase, I had, "no experience" hand feeding a baby bird, I did hand feed a male Solomon Island Eclectus parrot home made veggie shakes (custom recipe from an Av-Vet) for the last eight months of his life before I watched him pass away, his major organs finally failed in spite of the best possible vet care, he had been fed dry dog food for most of his life. After Cracker's lab results came back the vet told me the damage couldn't be undone, he offered me a humane way out, I took the road less traveled, the vet helped me give him eight months of VIP treatment, Crackers even got to experience flight before we had to say goodby. As painful as it was, I'm glad I didn't throw the bird out with my convictions. Please don't automatically assume everyone is an idiot, or that one way is the only way, a lot of people are intelligent enough and have enough motivation to take on a challenge and see it through. Just so you know, I have a houseful of rehabbed rescues. I drove three hours to pick Wilson up, for the experience, judge me if you must, it was not to save money, most of us know there are no free birds. I could build a nice aviary with the money I've willingly spent on free birds.

***What Scott's mom did with three baby toos, I can't touch that and I know it. Respect.

 

[Squeekmouse]

For my part, I completely agree with EllenD about folks taking in a 2-3 week old bird and thinking that they can wean the baby bird no problem. The risks are huge and tragic and nearly always end very badly.

Both of my boys were brought home before they were completely done weaning. However, both of my birds were about 3 months old and eating plenty of solid foods. Both of them still liked eating formula though, and circumstances in both cases made it worth the risk. I brought Yoda home early because; 1. I was quite concerned by the conditions he was in at the pet store. Cages were rarely/never cleaned and overcrowded. There were a dozen other problems there but I won't go into them all. 2. He was late in his weaning and seemed to be choosing the formula mostly because the other birds in his bin were dominating the food bowl (I watched him being chased away from it by a pair of rowdy Sun Conures). For Trigger, it was a similar situation. The conditions he was in were great, no problems there, but his siblings were all weaned and he was still choosing formula because his siblings were dominating the food bowl. The other reason was that he would have otherwise have been shipped alone across the country and I feared for his safety, particularly because of the cold, snowy weather here when he would arrive. In my situation, everything turned out wonderfully for Yoda, he stopped accepting formula after just a couple of days and greedily dove into his food bowl of Harrison's pellets and fresh veggies. The same thing looks to be happening with Trigger.

 

[Sandy19]

I think it's definitely doable if you know what to do, the problem is that any breeder willing to sell you an unweaned bird isn't going to tell you everything. And by the time you figure it out, it might be too late. Especially with the aspiration , you have to be really careful with a 3 week old bird , it's not for the unexperienced.

 

[chris-md]

I’m not sure the course of this thread is particularly sticky worthy.

The truth is that the answer is somewhere in between, and I for one would love to see the issue handled with more sympathy on this forum in general.

To be brutally honest - and I’ve felt this way for the last year or so as I’ve gotten to know Both sides of the argument - the “only experts should ever do this” argument smacks of elistist snobbery. We’re not talking surgery here, a license isn’t required nor should be.

Nor should those who have actually done it successfully be suppressed in sharing the positive experiences. It’s all part of the story.

And I’d would strongly dispute the assertion that “unless you’ve aspirated a baby bird, you can’t possibly understand the pain and guilt”. This forum is replete with stories about people accidentally killing their birds For one reason or another.

Plenty of people can comprehend how it feels. Let’s look outside of ourselves here.

By the same token, wholesale selling of unweaned babies to the general public just for the hell of it is a travesty that largely needs to end. Too many babies die needlessly daily.

But even as I say that, we have to remember this is a global forum, member countries whom all have their own social mores surrounding this. I just advised someone on my YouTube channel about his birds behavior problems, and he handled his chick from 4 weeks, not at all unusual in that part of the world. Beautiful story actually.

So perhaps those here claiming exceptions have a point. Sometimes you just find yourself in the position, for whatever reason, that you need to hand feed a baby bird. I don’t necessarily think those who have demostrable experienced in hand feeding a baby should be precluded from doing so if they wish.

 

[Scott]

Thanks for posting the baby pics, Auntie Terry.

Ellen, such passion is always appreciated, thank you but respectfully, you made your point in the first post in your thread, I merely wanted to flip the coin just long enough so that our members might see the other side. The suggestion that the thread become a sticky motivated me to take the opportunity to bow to the folks who aren't afraid to take a chance on a few feathered wonders that would otherwise slip through the cracks. Perhaps I'm mistaken, I have been away for a few months but I'm pretty certain ParrotForums, in most circumstances, has room for more than a single opinion. I want all our members to feel welcome and more than that to be able to tell their stories without fear of being bludgeoned.

Hmmm, frankly, I have little faith in luck, certainly not enough to rely on it, instead I used every available resource and Wilson didn't just survive, he thrived. I can't take all the credit for raising sweet Wilson, two rescued quakers helped by teaching him the English language before he was six months old. The downside, my flocks' communication skills have evolved, no off switch, they only stop talking to sleep.

Ahhh, and since you mentioned it, allow me to rephrase, I had, "no experience" hand feeding a baby bird, I did hand feed a male Solomon Island Eclectus parrot home made veggie shakes (custom recipe from an Av-Vet) for the last eight months of his life before I watched him pass away, his major organs finally failed in spite of the best possible vet care, he had been fed dry dog food for most of his life. After Cracker's lab results came back the vet told me the damage couldn't be undone, he offered me a humane way out, I took the road less traveled, the vet helped me give him eight months of VIP treatment, Crackers even got to experience flight before we had to say goodby. As painful as it was, I'm glad I didn't throw the bird out with my convictions. Please don't automatically assume everyone is an idiot, or that one way is the only way, a lot of people are intelligent enough and have enough motivation to take on a challenge and see it through. Just so you know, I have a houseful of rehabbed rescues. I drove three hours to pick Wilson up, for the experience, judge me if you must, it was not to save money, most of us know there are no free birds. I could build a nice aviary with the money I've willingly spent on free birds.

***What Scott's mom did with three baby toos, I can't touch that and I know it. Respect.

Eloquently stated with heart, Allee!

 

[Scott]

I just don't think that making posts about the "happy-outcomes" of making this terrible decision and posting photos of your baby birds that you hand-fed with "no experience", and that you frankly got very lucky with, fortunately, is the right message to send people.

***And I'm not saying that there aren't situations where you cannot avoid hand-feeding a baby bird with no experience, or that it isn't necessary to save a baby bird, or if you walk into a breeder's home and find horrible conditions and neglect/abuse, and it isn't better for the babies to leave with you even if you have no experience hand-feeding a bird. people that I would like to see become educated and be given the correct information BEFORE they make a decision as to which bird to buy.

I posted an instance of "happy outcomes" replete with exhibit A of hand-feeding abandoned babies. Assume you are categorizing my experiences within the second quoted paragraph?

We had no clue the Goffins parents would shirk their responsibilities post-hatching. However, there was always a contingency plan of bringing the babies to a breeder-friend thoroughly equipped to see them to maturity. Because my mom was an R.N, it was deemed reasonable for her to take a crash-course in hand-feeding and raise Gabby to autonomy. By the second season, the die was cast as Abby was also abandoned. Squeaky came along year four, and it was hence decided to remove the nest box. All three survived and are thriving adults in my home, along with parents Peanut and Popcorn.

Points all well taken from a strong advocate, Ellen, but would be better received absent a judgmental tone.

 

[ChristaNL]

LOL I do not think anyone would blame Scott (or parent/s) for trying to save a life (on the contrary!) but for them it was an unexpected exception-- for many parrots it is the norm and many do not survive the excperience when there was absolutely no need to go through that in the first place.
(they had caring parrents, just happened to hatch at some greedy breeders plant and met uninformed wanna-be-parronts).


I do not read judgement, just the despair of someone who has seen/heard it go terribly wrong too many times and preferes not to see that kind of suffering again.


I sincerely hope that in the near future "handfed" is not going to be considered a "good thing" anymore, something you tell as to illustrate/prove how wonderfully tame your bird is (not mentioning how psylogically damaged it is) but something you add apologetically "unfortunately, he had to be handfed because the parents stopped feeding too soon- but he/ she is doing great, everything a normal parrot does and is".


We are getting a lot better at understanding the needs of animals- so we might get there and prevent all this from happening again (and again, and again).