Help with biting

[barclay2018]

Hi everyone

I some help, so I have had bash now about a year , s/he is about 1 and half years old , up until now we have had a great bond we always bash spend the most of his time on my shoulder climbing over me and getting cuddles , so about 2 weeks ago that changed s/he will be greating cuddle and scratches then just go for me hand or like the other night my ear which I now have a hole in s/he is not biting to warn me but to hit me I have about 5 bites on my hand which s/he has drawn blood through letting go ,I normally just put bash back on his cage of play stand and tell her/ him no biting if he really bite in a have gently bashs beak to stop the bite , any advice would be great when bash is out I do about 15 mind of flight time for cage to branch and play stand tonight get some exercise and use up some energy

Thanks

Elaine and bash

 

[Mangosmaid]

The timing sounds like he is going through his hormonal stage of becoming a full adult (around 15 mo. Old).
This article explains it well.

 

[noodles123]

Think about a baby human (your bird previously)...then think about a 12-13 year old....babies are ALWAYS sweet. This is a transition and as an adult, he will never be like he was as a baby. It won't always be so intense, but it won't be the same. You also have to understand that you are likely triggering your bird and confusing him by snuggling (that is sexual- pet on the head and neck only). You do not to confuse your relationship (that leads to undesirable behaviors). Also make sure no tents, huts or shadowy spaces are in the cage and work on training--no more cuddles. Oh and 10-12 hours solid sleep on a schedule each night (this also regulates hormones).

Your response to biting will also shape that behavior, but first, remove the triggers. Never physically punish or yell at the bird for a bite either.

 

[Caitnah]

Your in good company as this happens to many...including me.
Your story is exactly like mine. For the first year, Buddy was sweet, cuddly, kisses and then all of a sudden, WHAM!
Now, he barley will step up on my finger. He’ll bite the hell out of it. But yet, he will step up on my arm or shoulder. The ear biting I can’t figure out why he does this. He stopped for the last six months but started again two days ago. He is being hormonal as he is humping constantly so that may be why.
But I do miss the snuggles. He sucked me in with that. Now he looks at me with devil eyes as if he’s thinking, “Go ahead, stick that finger out. Make my day!”

But the sneak will GLADLY take treats from my fingers with no problem. The other day I put food in my palm and he happily stood on my finger while eating.
They sure do test ya.

Try clicker training. I do that with him now and the bites are less severe. But I have to comment on one thing. I get a kick out of people that say to not react when you get bit. Seriously? My guy has drawn blood a couple of times and as you know, you can’t help but react.
I had a Grey bite me hard one time and I realized that getting surgery without anesthesia would have been more pleasant.

Good luck.

 

[birdiemama]

I blow in my bird's face when he latches on. I don't want to tap his beak because my fingers and hands are his friends. When I blow in his face he stops biting. Maybe it will work for you.

 

[noodles123]

I blow in my bird's face when he latches on. I don't want to tap his beak because my fingers and hands are his friends. When I blow in his face he stops biting. Maybe it will work for you.

Believe it or not, for some birds, this is an extreme turn-on and can even be a "reward" for some (even though it may temporarily distract) LOL...It is mentioned in BirdTricks videos (among other places) as being sexual to some and I am pretty sure my bird kind of likes it too, even though it certainly stops her in her tracks/"seems" to annoy her..If I were you, I would find another method, because it may "stop" one behavior but lead to another (sex is a reward and biting, followed by the promise of sex, could actually increase the behavior)...Plus, if it actually is upsetting, you don't want to do it. So really, just find another way lol. You never want to use physically aversive tactics with a bird--for instance, spraying a bird with water when the bird is bad is a HUGE "no no"---this blowing thing is similar...and the risk is, that you could be A. harming trust, or B. creating a sexually reinforcing experience without knowing it.

 

[birdiemama]

Oh my goodness Scott, who knew? I thought it was such a good idea, but I really see your point. Thanks!

 

[Cagzo]

For the first time Connie drew blood with a bite to my husband thismorning.
She often tests how far she can go with me,all he did was asked her to step up while holdind a SF seed for a treat.
Yesterday she was a bit iffy with me,as Ive had to put rollers in my hair(no hairdressers)and she didnt like to get anywhere near them! Such unpredictable birds!!

 

[noodles123]

The question is now, what did you do right after the bite-- what did everyone in the room do?

 

[Cagzo]

She was on my shoulder at the time. I pulled her off on the tea towel I wear over my shoulder,and she tried to bite me when I asked her to step up.Then when she was on the table immediately after, she got her head pressed with a loud firm "No" She knows the no word. We ingnored her after that little episode.

 

[noodles123]

Okay, so I would track this to see if there is a pattern. She likely associates you moving the towel with her having to step up and get off of you (but it could also be alarming to her to see the towel getting move like that--OR she may have been worried you were going to hand her to your husband, if this is something you normally attempt when he is near), so I would work on having hew step up and then not handing her off or putting her down each time--possibly without the towel (although shoulders need to be earned and so I wouldn't let her up there is this happens often). The fact that your husband was in the room makes me thing he likely influenced this behavior by presence--- who does she tend to prefer (you, or him?)

I would NOT press her head (it will either make her angry, or she will enjoy it, but either way, it won't achieve what you want it to--in my opinion. It is too physical.

You just will need to look for trends because they are super smart. At one point, my bird was biting to manipulate me into putting her down. In some other instances, she has bitten because she didn't want to go down.

Look up ABC charting (antecedent, behavior, consequence). I cam try to find a link to a post I made about this.

 

[noodles123]

Here is a post I made for another member--not sure how old yours is, so the stuff on hormones may or may not apply currently, but even if it doesn't you want to avoid these triggers or you will set an inappropriate precedent. My main point in posting this is for the details on ABA- I am NOT saying your situation is the same at all, but it give you an idea of how ABA works. Here is the original thread if you want to see what the OP said- http://www.parrotforums.com/conures...-has-become-aggressive-my-7-year-old-som.html Honestly, your situation is more likely rooted in escape than attention (but again, this is just to illustrate the concept of ABA).

"First--- mitigate hormonal influences and get rid of triggers:
1. remove all snuggle huts, tents, caves and hammocks from his cage and don't let him hang out in bedding, under cloths, in boxes etc.
2. Pet on the head and neck only.
3. 10 hours of sleep on a schedule each night.
4. Make sure he is getting plenty of activity and enrichment/ things to do

***This is normal---all birds go threw a rough patch at puberty BUT with appropriate responses, you can adjust to these changes****

From there, I would recommend Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA). Start by making what they call an ABC chart (antecedent= what happens right before the bird's behavior, behavior=what the bird does, c= consequence =what happens right after the behavior (good or bad---consequence is just the RESULT and it doesn't mean consequence in the same way that we sometimes think of a consequence).

In the scenario you gave above:

Antecedent= Son laughed while you were playing with him and bird was on you.
behavior= bird flew off and bit son on lip.....You didn't say what happened next, but that would be the consequence.
consequence= WHATEVER YOU AND YOUR SON DID=== did he cry? Did you yell? Did your son leave the room? Did you put the bird back on the cage? Did you stop playing Monopoly? All of these things are really important because all behaviors serves a purpose. People and animals only do things because we are rewarded in some conscious or subconscious way by the results of the behavior. This is called the "function" of a behavior (the reason we do it). A behavior can have more than one function, but all behaviors fall into 1 of 4 categories:

1. Escape (to get out of a location, get away from a person, avoid a task/activity etc)
2. Attention (to get attention from humans or animals which may include eye contact, yelling, laughter, increased proximity, scolding etc)
3.Tangibles- to obtain a physical item---e.g., a kid throwing a fit to get candy at the grocery store or hitting another kid to take their toy. Heck---working for a paycheck also falls into this realm.
4. Sensory= eating when hungry (to stop the hunger), taking a pill for a headache, scratching your skin because it itches, crying as a response to legitimate pain.

I would say that this behavior, while rooted in a sudden change in hormones/ drive, can be shaped if you start to understand how everyone's reactions are likely feeding into it.

By charting ABC's of a behavior, you start to see a pattern. When you look at the "c" column (consequences) you will find a general pattern. Without knowing more about this pattern of behavior and consequences (e.g., charting it) I cannot say with certainty what the function/reason is, but just based on what you said and based on my experiences, I am going to guess that after you do the charting, you will probably notice that the majority of the "consequences" will be linked to the theme/"function" of attention ---but when you look at the chart, you will want to ask yourself, is this consequence creating an opportunity for attention, escape, tangibles or sensory. You may have a combination, but you are looking for the once you see most frequently across the board in relation to this behavior.

This is how you determine the function (reason for doing) a behavior. When you know the function, you can then manipulate the behavior by A) NOT gratifying/rewarding the behavior with consequences that serve the function and B) providing more appropriate ways for the function of that behavior to be met without doing it in an inappropriate way. These are socially acceptable alternatives to the undesirable location--- they allow the same function to be met/gratified, but in a more appropriate way.

From the sounds of it, your bird is likely motivated by 1. primarily attention from you and 2. Escape/avoidance of your son (because he is an attention-blocker/associated with lack of attention from you).--I AM JUST GUESSING--- IF I AM WRONG ABOUT ATTENTION BEING THE FUNCTION THEN YOU WILL NEED TO DO A DIFFERENT INTERVENTION---

I can't say for sure without knowing how you react when this stuff happens, but if he is like most 7 year-olds, here's what I imagine:

Playing game with you (attention is on game and kid) , Kid laughs, bird bites.
Kid screams, you stop paying attention to the game , you yell/scold/react while looking at bird-- if this happens, so far, the bird has learned that biting gets attention from you and your kid (if what happens is anything like what I just described)--if your kid leaves, then your bird no longer sees you giving him that attention and all is right in the world again (the "threat" has been removed). He wants your attention because he is a flock creature, but also because he is reaching sexual maturity and likely views you as a mate and in the wild, conures do not share mates. Your kid is a potential threat as long as you are a sexual object. This doesn't mean withdrawing all attention from your bird, but it does mean that you will have to be EXTRA mindful about how you interact with him in order to set the bird up for success (before the behavior occurs and in situations where the behavior is likely to occur).

In an attention seeking behavior, the bigger your reaction, the more you are rewarding the bird. In this case, 2 people reacting with urgency could be quite gratifying!
Assuming the bird really wants attention from you, instead of making a big thing of it, my suggestion would be to firmly say No (NOT loudly, one time) and use something like a time-out cage to isolate the bird immediately following the bite. If you are the object of the bird's attention seeking then you need to accomplish this as quickly as possible with as little eye-contact/reaction as possible. This will only work if you are absolutely certain that your bird is biting for attention--- by doing a short time-out away from you and your son, his attention seeking behavior cannot be reinforced.

At the same time, after a short time-out, you need to show him positive ways that he can get attention from you while your son is around WITHOUT biting. This is that socially acceptable equivalent I discussed earlier-- if he bites for attention, maybe you teach him to ring a bell for attention, say a word word for attention, take a treat for attention etc. Something that gets him the same type of reward without upsetting the household.

Because this involves a kid, it IS more complicated though because it's going to be really hard for your son to control his reactions. If he cannot control his reactions, then you need to consider avoiding situations in which things like this can occur, because if you are trying to stick with the "ignoring" program, but he keeps reacting, then you will likely make the behavior even worse...so it's important to be as consistent as possible once you start an intervention.

I would definitly try to pair your son with positives for the bird. It is likely that you pay attention to your child more than the bird when he is around, and that is no fun for the bird. Try to make a consious effort of giving your bird MORE attention (for positives) when your son is around and pair him with as many positives as possible. In an attention seeker, attention will always be the most important reward, but you can tack on other incentives too (like a favorite treat whenever he is with you and your son). The thing is, the treat MUST be secondary to the main reward (attention ). While it can help strengthen positive associations, an attention-seeker's behavior is never going to be impacted by food alone (unless getting that food is accompanied by the attention it desires)."

 

[Cagzo]

Thankyou Noodles, I saw the" press down gently on their heads" on You Tube, cant remember the womans name.
I feel that she didnt want to step up from my shoulder as shes very clingy to me.Normally she will go of her own accord to OH,usually if hes doing something interesting as shes very inquisitive. I will read avidly all the information,and thankyou again.