Is there a good reason to get my bird DNA-sexed?

[EllenD]

yeah i'll probably do the feather thing lol. i really wanna get the gender thing sorted.

thanks for the info about sedation ellen! yeah i didnt agree with the vet on this (or his love of soy), but of the 2 choices i have remotely close to me, via reviews, this one was the best option. a lot of what he said/did was spot on though. and i've had disagreements with vets before. my dogs vet tried to prescribe her meds that are toxic to a GSD :\. gotta arm yourself with knowledge sometimes.

i'd post more but i feel bad hijacking someone elses thread >_>.

I think it's important to work WITH your Vet and not against them, but half of that equation is your Vet listening to you just like you listen to them...And they also need to understand that ultimately this is your bird and it's totally 100% your decision what is done and how it's done in the end. It's no different than working with your own human doctor, and unfortunately they don't listen well either...I think there's a bit of "ego" that everyone with a Dr. in front of their name or an MD/DO/DVM behind their name acquires, it's just a matter of which ones are willing to open-up their ears and their brains and actually listen.

I have told more than a few Vets that you shouldn't ever have to put a bird under sedation or anesthesia for a simple, routine blood-draw (among other things like clipping their toenails amazingly)...I think this topic is such an issue because a lot of General and Exotics Vets who do not have any additional education or training in Avian Medicine don't realize just how often birds die while coming out of anesthesia and/or sedation, and because they use sedations/anesthesia on a regular-basis, every single day and all day long to do blood-draws and toenail clippings, etc. with every other type of animal like Guinea Pigs, Ferrets, Rats, Hedgehogs, Sugar Gliders, Dogs, Cats, Rabbits, you name it, they sedate them, and usually there isn't an issue. And when it comes to Birds they either just don't know or are scared to death. And rightfully so.

So as long as your Vet is willing to listen to you and respect your wishes, even if they disagree with them, then you've got yourself a good Vet.

 

[mrs.pants]

I think it's important to work WITH your Vet and not against them, but half of that equation is your Vet listening to you just like you listen to them...And they also need to understand that ultimately this is your bird and it's totally 100% your decision what is done and how it's done in the end. It's no different than working with your own human doctor, and unfortunately they don't listen well either...I think there's a bit of "ego" that everyone with a Dr. in front of their name or an MD/DO/DVM behind their name acquires, it's just a matter of which ones are willing to open-up their ears and their brains and actually listen.

I have told more than a few Vets that you shouldn't ever have to put a bird under sedation or anesthesia for a simple, routine blood-draw (among other things like clipping their toenails amazingly)...I think this topic is such an issue because a lot of General and Exotics Vets who do not have any additional education or training in Avian Medicine don't realize just how often birds die while coming out of anesthesia and/or sedation, and because they use sedations/anesthesia on a regular-basis, every single day and all day long to do blood-draws and toenail clippings, etc. with every other type of animal like Guinea Pigs, Ferrets, Rats, Hedgehogs, Sugar Gliders, Dogs, Cats, Rabbits, you name it, they sedate them, and usually there isn't an issue. And when it comes to Birds they either just don't know or are scared to death. And rightfully so.

So as long as your Vet is willing to listen to you and respect your wishes, even if they disagree with them, then you've got yourself a good Vet.

Oh 100% agree with this! I've been very fortunate to have found some good vets lately and their ability to work with me and trust me, as well as putting trust in them too, is very important. It's a relationship and the goal is to make sure your pet is well taken care of and happy and healthy.

I've had to fight vets before, and that is just not fun our last dog was extremely anxious and he would fear bite, so they wanted a muzzle. I said "let me muzzle him, he trusts me" they said "no, we have to do it." and I watched them literally pin my dog to the wall using a door to get a muzzle on him. I was young at the time and didn't know what to do, but already could tell I knew more about handling at least than this vet. We never went back.

So yeah as long as my vet is willing to listen and respect my wishes and willing to have a conversation with me instead of just "No I'm right." then I'm happy. I feel like its super important to know the pets you have as much as possible, so I'm always trying to learn more and this place has been a great wealth of information.

 

[EllenD]

It's amazing just how common the "muzzle" situation you went through with your dog is...I have a male Shar Pei who has the scariest growl when he's nervous that it scares everyone badly even though he has never even nipped at anyone. And I totally understand the need to muzzle him for everyone's protection, including his and mine (legally as well as safety-wise)...However, why in the world Vets and Vet-Techs think that it's better to chase and wrestle and already-scared and anxious dog than it is to just allow their owner to put the muzzle on them with no issues is beyond me. Happens all the time. And with Jett, since he's a Shar Pei, he has such a wide, well he doesn't have an actual "snout", so it's an extremely wide "face"? I don't know, I guess it's actually his "muzzle" that is extremely wide and totally flat, lol..He doesn't have a snout. Nothing protrudes from his face, lol...So you would think that they'd realize that a normal muzzle, regardless of the size, is not going to work on him (forgetting the obvious I'm also typically in the background going "He doesn't have a snout, so that isn't going to work!")...And if they find an extra-large size of "regular" muzzle (the fabric ones),, and they finally do manage to wrestle him to the ground, sit on him, and finally get that thing over his entire muzzle and the strap attached behind his huge, BULBOUS head, lol, it is 100% always going to come right back off in T-minus 5 seconds and counting...And then you hear "It's off! It's off of him! It came off!", with me just standing there going "Gee, it came off. I'm shocked."...

So anyway, yeah, there are a lot of great Vets and a lot of horrible Vets, and for an extremely large variety of reasons...But if you find a Vet who is willing to listen to you and willing to actually research on his own something that you have suggested and take it into account, and is willing to come-up with a plan WITH YOU instead of on their own, then you've got a good Vet, even if they aren't very experienced or well-educated in a certain type of medicine, because usually a Vet willing to listen to his patients and abide by their wishes, and most of all is willing to do research on his own based on what his patients suggest and tell him, well Vets like this usually are willing to admit their shortcomings in a certain type of medicine, and the fact that sometimes their patient's owners know a lot more than they do about a particular topic...

 

[EllenD]

Oh, by the way, I saw that someone mentioned how some people say that they can tell the gender of a bird by "feeling their Pelvic Bones"....I've heard of pet shop employees doing this, actual bird breeders/brokers doing this, and even Veterinarians and Vet Techs doing this (never heard of a CAV or Avian Specialist Vet doing this, but rather General and mostly "Exotics" Vets doing it)...Let me be the first to debunk this completely, because it's 100% BS, and usually the person who is doing it knows that it's 100% BS. I have heard of a lot of people going to choose what baby parrot/bird they want out of an entire clutch of babies experiencing a breeder doing this because they have told the breeder that they prefer a certain gender over the other, or even that they would only buy one of their birds if they know it's a certain gender...So that's exactly the reason that some unscrupulous, lying, greedy bird breeder or pet shop employee/owner came up with this a long time ago and it caught on...They just want to make sure that they sell the bird and that they don't have to spend an extra $15-$20 having a DNA-test done...It's sad...

I have heard two different explanations as to what these people are "feeling for" when they are doing this to a bird: #1 is they are feeling for the width of the space between the bird's left and right pelvic bones, and if the space between them is of a certain width that they feel is large enough, then that means the bird is a female. If the width of the space is too narrow, then that means it's a male. I think this is the more common explanation they attempt to give prospective buyers...#2 is they are feeling the bird's pelvic bones for certain male characteristics, namely the hole where the Vas Deferens run through the bone...This is ridiculous and shouldn't even be given any thought at all,, as if someone tells you they can actually feel the Inguinal space/hole where the Vas Deferens run through, or any other teeny-tiny attribute in the pelvic floor of a bird, then they need to be called-out on their BS right then and there. It's impossible...And as far as "the width between the pelvic bones is larger, so that means it's a female", well use your own common-sense here. First of all, if it's a young, baby bird (which it usually is when this happens), it's still growing and developing, so even if this was true you still wouldn't be able to tell on a young, baby bird that is under a year or so old, as they haven't yet gone through puberty and their bones/skeleton have yet to finish growing...However, the real reason that this is complete BS is because the "width between the pelvic bones" has absolutely NOTHING to do with the gender of a bird, lol. If you're talking about human-beings, yes, a female's hips are typically wider, but not always...However, bird's don't go through "live-births", nor do their pelvic bones spread when an egg is laid, which is exactly why they often become Egg-Bound...So if you feel a male bird's pelvic bones and then a female bird's pelvic bones back-to-back, you'll find that there is NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL...It's nothing but a lie.

***Bottom-line to this is THEY ARE LYING TO YOU BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE A SALE IF THE GENDER OF THE BIRD YOU BUY IS VERY IMPORTANT TO YOU!!! AND THEY DON'T WANT TO SPEND AN EXTRA $15 PER BIRD ON DNA-TESTS!****

That's it, that's all that needs to be said. It's just simply 100% untrue, so if anyone hears this in the future from a bird breeder, a bird 'broker", or from a pet shop/bird shop employee, you'll know they are lying to you and the only way to know the gender of any bird, unless they are sexually-dimorphic, is by having a DNA-test done either by blood or by feathers. Period, the end;