More Sammy weirdness

[EllenD]

I just read this entire thread. What an unsettling challenge, and hard to understand behavior. You have certainly put in the work. I wonder if he is in some kind of pain? Have you ever had a radiograph done? A thought he might have some fused vertebrae, or pinched nerve, s benign tumor , or cyst, maybe even a testicular mass? ( You'd be surprised at what weird things can show up!) You had a vet work up a few years ago, has he had blood work and chemistry since then , sometimes things time to show up...when was the last time he was outside? Do you have a travel cage for when it warms up, took take him outside? Parrots like people can suffer from seasonal affective disorder, the benefits from being outside in fresh air and sunshine can be profound.. I suppose if bundled up to a warm car and placed so his cage gives him a good view out the window , and start taking him on trips around the neighborhood could provide mental stimulation, and perhaps an enjoyable activitie?? These are the only thoughts I've come up with to add different tatics. I surely hope you and Sunny find more joy in your relationship! Warm hugs to you and your flock.

It's a very valid point, as birds refuse to show any commonly recognized, outward signs or symptoms of illness and/or pain, it's extremely common for illnesses and pain to come-out in the form of aggressive behaviors, neurotic behaviors, anxiety, etc. If it hasn't been done in the last year, I'd be having an x-ray taken and routine blood-work to check his liver and kidney values, his blood-cell counts, and his nutritional/metabolic values. It should be done at least once a year anyway, and my CAV does an x-ray during each yearly wellness-exam of all of my birds because it's the only way to possibly catch things such as masses/growths, changes in the spine, bone-density, hormonal activity, issues with the reproductive system, blockages in their sinus passages, an enlarged kidney and/or liver (even if their blood-values are normal), and many other conditions that can commonly occur in birds and cause chronic pain, such as "Sternal-Lift" of their Keel-bones due to an enlarged liver, which commonly causes impingement of their sciatic nerve, pressure on their Air-Sacs, and issues breathing. So it's a very good idea in the case of Sammy, as pain/illness very often manifests itself in birds as aggression, violence, etc.

 

[mh434]

This sounds like a good idea. It scares me a little, of course - I had him in to the vet about a year ago (where he was pronounced as "disgustingly healthy, if a tad overweight"), and had his talons shortened a bit. Sammy reacted VERY badly to this (not as far as the vet & techs were concerned - he was relatively okay with them, but not as far as I was concerned). He became absolutely feral again, and incredibly vicious & tenacious.

It subsequently took several months of hard work to regain a portion of the small amount of trust I'd regained with him over the previous 2 years, so I'm understandably concerned.

I suppose I've just been "whistling through the graveyard", basically hoping for major progress before intentionally ruining that trust with another vet visit, but I guess I don't really have a choice. Just thinking about it gives me chills...

 

[EllenD]

I totally understand where you're coming from...Like you said, from the CAV's point of view, they deal with those types of behaviors from birds every single day, and no matter how badly Sammy might behave during a CAV visit, they've seen much, much, much worse...But some birds are just more sensitive emotionally and psychologically, and the way that they handle/deal with anxiety and stress, or the way they are effected by anxiety and stress is just more dramatic than others.

Besides having his toenails clipped during his CAV visit a year ago, I don't know what else they did or what, if any tests they ran...But for an X-Ray, your CAV will use Isoflurane Gas to put Sammy under momentarily...Now don't freak-out, this is not at all the same as medical-anesthesia, like they use for surgery...Isoflurane Gas is extremely short-acting and totally safe to use with birds, and is in no way the risk that actual medical anesthesia is...It's actually so short-acting that they have to be very quick in getting the X-Ray and whatever else they want to do done, as birds wake-up in about a minute or two after the mask is removed, so typically they put the mask on the bird, they fall asleep in about 30 seconds, then they take them directly to the X-Ray machine, snap the X-Ray, and then they either take him back and put the Gas mask back on if there is anything else they need to do, such as drawing blood from his neck (doesn't need to be asleep to take blood, but if he's already under then they definitely would do everything so that Sammy wouldn't experience any of it, no pain or even discomfort at all, which is definitely better for him)..Or if they weren't doing anything else they'd simply put an oxygen mask on him until he woke up, which is typically in less than a minute or so...And the nice thing about Isoflurane is that they also have no lingering effects...no groggyness at all, no nausea, no stumbling around, they just wake-up and are normal...

So in Sammy's case, since he does stress and have anxiety at the Vet that leaves a lasting effect at home with you, they would probably, if they are wise and you fill them in on how Sammy was effected the last time, actually do nothing at all with Sammy awake, since they have to put him under with the Iso gas for the X-Ray anyway...So I wouldn't even do a visual or physical exam of Sammy with him awake, I'd want to make the entire visit as stress-free as possible, and so that Sammy wouldn't have any memory of them doing anything to him at all...I've seen CAV's do complete Wellness-Exams this way and it usually works extremely well...They usually don't even take the bird out of it's carrier until they are in the back room. So they just take Sammy from you in the exam room inside of his carrier, carry the carrier to the back room, get him out while toweling him, and immediately put the Isoflurane gas mask over his beak, and he'd be asleep in less than a minute...Then they start the clock, and if they're good they get everything done within a matter of minutes...They would check his heart-rate and breathing, then take him right to the x-ray machine, snap the pictures, then bring him back and draw the blood from his neck (the Techs should have the needle/syringe ready to go as soon as they come back from the x-ray), then do a quick physical exam looking in his eyes, ears, looking inside of his beak/mouth/throat for any plaques, check his heart and breathing again as he's waking up, and once his eyes are open and he's starting to squawk, they'll put him right back into his carrier and bring him right back to you in the exam room...The whole thing shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes tops...And that way Sammy will not have any memory of anything painful happening to him at all, just the toweling and the mask over his beak/cere...

I highly recommend that you get this done due to what's been going on with Sammy. No matter the stress that Sammy experiences from going to the Vet, you obviously want to get to the bottom of what is going on, and if he was a bit overweight during your last visit, then he may very well have some Liver or Kidney Disease going on, or some Sternal-Lift of his Keel-Bone due to an enlarged, fatty Liver, which is the #1 cause of a pinched Sciatic Nerve in birds...The sooner you figure out what is going on with him, the better chance of remedying it will be, and the less the chance of permanent damage/disability...

 

[mh434]

I have news -Sammy was making fairly significant progress up until 2 weeks ago. He was accepting more attention from me, and actually asking for me to be close.

On May 5th, my wife left me (moved out while I was at work), out of the blue, leaving a letter that she was going to start a new life, one that will not include me. I was devastated, as she is my entire universe. I, quite literally, have no one else in my life. Not even family. It's a hard blow after 24 years of happiness and devotion. I have never known such desolation and loneliness.

When she left, she took our beloved African Grey "Reno" and one of our Conures with her.

Instantly, Sammy became moody and extremely aggressive again, and the other birds are out of sorts as well. Even the dog, who she didn't really care for that much, spends his days searching the house for her, or lying by where her desk used to be, whining softly. It's heartbreaking.

After two weeks, I'd hoped Sammy would start to come around, but it's not happening.

Worse, with only me in the house, and 8 parrots to look after, while working 12 hour days, I'm having trouble giving them anywhere near the care & attention they need and deserve. They need far more than I can give them, and that causes me great pain. With two of us, we were able to keep them all happy and content, but that's no longer possible.

I have no idea what to do. I can't even imagine re-homing them, but their quality of life is already declining.

Sorry to burden you good folks with this, but at the moment I need some prayers, I think. Sometimes it helps just to share your grief, and I have a great deal of it right now. The love of my life is gone, and our home & flock are falling apart.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Oh my goodness! I am so so sooooo sorry to read this! Indeed your flock know something is not right in your and their universe,birds are resilient..they can and do come back..probably easier than most humans do.
I recall when my AG passed away a few years back,Amy knew something was up. His mood changed,was quiet,wouldn't come out of his house,and he knew that I was hurting...sensed it. A few weeks went by and he finally came out of his house and climbed the couch where I was laying down being very depressed. He snuggled under my chin ( has NEVER done that) and beaked my cheek and preened my beard while making soft amazon sounds.

I know its nothing to what you are dealing with at the moment. Give your flock some time to adjust..they need YOU as much as you need them. My prayers are with you truly!


jim

 

[mh434]

Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful reply. I'm still trying to come to terms with it all, in the complete absence of any information from my wife (cell blocked, social media blocked, no texts or email etc. accepted). We seemed so happy, even the night before, making plans for the next few days - even though she knew she would be leaving.

ALL the birds are out of sorts, but Sammy (who takes a LONG time to accept a change of any kind, even months or years) has gone over the top. When he sees me he starts shrieking, ripping things in his cage apart, flying at the bars toward me, etc.

It's truly heartbreaking.

Anyway, thanks again for the kind wishes and prayers. I'll update if there are any changes.

 

[Shine]

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. That sounds incredibly hard for all of you. Sammy will come around eventually, as will the rest of your flock. Again, I'm so sorry.

 

[OutlawedSpirit]

I am incredibly sorry for what you're going through. My heart aches for you and your flock. All you can do is keep getting up every morning and pushing through.

I don't think you should even consider rehoming anyone at this point unless you are soooo pressed you don't have time to provide them basic care i.e. fresh food and water daily, clean cages. Even if life doesn't give you the time to interact with them right now like you had before, they're resilient and know things have changed. They can adapt until things get better. Gail has talked many times about how she went for a long time where her and the Rickybird got by on 10 minutes in the morning and 10 minutes at night.

You need them and they need you. You're all part of each other's flock, and part of the purpose of a flock is to protect everyone within it. Comfort them as much as you can because they are mourning the loss and let them comfort you as well.

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[wrench13]

You have my sympathy guy, went thru something similar with my first wife, but we didnt have parrots then, only children, who take things much worse. Hope you dont have to re0home your flock, they give you a center to work from. Chin up, better times are coming, right?

 

[mh434]

All your kind thoughts and prayers are deeply appreciated. I'm going through a tough time, and it's hard to even imagine the future. I'm far too old to start over, yet that's what I must do.

I'll continue to care for all the flock with all the energy I can muster. I fear for their future, as much as for my own.

Thank you all, again, for your support and care!

 

[Inger]

I don’t have anything useful to say, but I’ve got you and yours in my thoughts.


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[LeaKP]

Oh my goodness I’m just back after a house move and hadn’t seen this post! I’m so very sorry to hear this devastating news. You have our support! I’m hoping with everyone else here that the right solutions come your way. Please keep us posted.


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[LaManuka]

I’m so sorry you are going through this. If possible please try to keep your flock together, they are your home now.

 

[mh434]

Almost two months have passed since my wife left, taking our CAG "Reno" with her. His arrival, about 4 years ago, was the "trigger" that caused Sammy to lose his bond with me, I believe, as it happened instantly, the moment Reno arrived. Up until then, Sammy had been the undisputed "flock leader", and bonded to me like iron.

Now that Reno's been gone for 2 months, Sammy still has absolutely no bond with me whatsoever. He tolerates me giving him food, but that's it. He has no interest in me beyond that, and aggressively drives me off if I try to get close to him. A few days ago I was giving him a peanut (his favorite treat) and I guess I got too close, as he went right past the peanut and took a large piece out of my hand. Luckily, this time I was able to patch it up without sutures.

I have done everything that people have suggested, to no avail. No amount of trust-building attempts have had any effect whatsoever, and strangely, Reno leaving just seems to have made things worse. It's been 4 years now since Sammy was bonded to anyone.

I'm so saddened by this. His life has deteriorated to being an ornamental caged bird, as he has no one to bond to. And I no longer have my loving Sammy.

I'm giving serious thought to re-homing him with someone he CAN bond with, like he did with me years ago. A clean break, a new start. I have to think of his future, and his quality of life. To make things worse, I'm away 12-14 hours a day at work, and he has no contact with anyone.

It would hurt terribly, but I don't know what else to do. He isn't "living" anymore, he's just existing, and it isn't fair to him.

I'm devastated just thinking about it.

 

[texsize]

I am sorry your having such a terrible couple of months.
Are you sure you aren't jumping the gun with Sammy?
2 months in the life of an Amazon isn't that long (it just seams that way to you).
I don't have any advice that I can give to re-establish a bond.

My little Cockatiel Pinky took 2 years to get a relationship and it's still not all that solid.
I know she likes me, I can tell in ways that I can't put into words. Sometimes she will step up for me but mostly not. she grooms my eyebrows and mustache.
I know she is not happy in my flock but I am sure rehoming her would be worse.
I have considered her for rehoming but I can't see a situation that she would be happier in.

texsize

 

[OutlawedSpirit]

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about Sammy yet. You definitely aren't over your wife just up and leaving, tearing your family apart, and turning your world upside down (not that I would expect you to be in any way.)

I'm just pointing out that obvious fact to say that it isn't fair for you to expect Sammy to be over it either. Even if he didn't like the way things were, after being kicked off his throne so to speak, it IS the way they were. So that was his life too, not just yours. He had the rug pulled out from under him just as much as you did you.

So just give him time to grieve what once was and is no longer. Then start back at the very beginning. Not the beginning of you trying to bring back the bond you two used to have. To the beginning of when you very first brought Sammy into your life and there had never been a bond. Start there.

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