Testing Boundaries?

[Boki]

I probably did too much research too early and now sort of need to get the process in order. I do understand each bird is different. But as I think I read that after weaning comes bonding. After bonding, then comes testing boundaries. In about one year of age comes the first molt. After the first big molt comes hormonal changes. Or is that the first big molt and hormonal changes the same thing?

I would like to understand what is meant by the juvenile tries to push boundaries. Can someone give some examples?

Or do I have it wrong in that the juveniles try to push boundaries before bonding?

I had sort of a difficult day with getting my 6 month bird to go back in the cage after being out for more than 2 hours. That never happened before as previously she went into the cage as soon as I gave her the opportunity. This came unexpectedly as today I had a prior commitment and thought 2 hours was more than enough time based on previous trials of being out of the cage.

I will have more of an open schedule tomorrow but wonder if I should let her stay out until she is ready to come back in? I am considering pulling food for about an hour before out of cage time so that hunger will be an incentive for her getting back into her safe place. I was constantly offering her treats to step up and she ignored the treats. Up until now, she has had unfettered access to food 24-7. Maybe that should change during the day but not at night?

I understand that patience is the key and I have that. However reality does play a role and the bird cannot get everything her way, every day. I have read that many people talk about using "time outs" which to me means you can't have a bird who gets everything she wants.

I am pleased to say that there is no biting involved.

 

[Laurasea]

Hi, not sure I understand exactly what's going on? Your conure wouldn't step up to go back to cage? Or your bird is just free in the house and you wait for it to go back to cage?
I have had two GCC that I got at a few months old, I never had testing, or hormonal., Or much of anything with molts ..

 

[noodles123]

How long have you had the bird?
Can you describe your daily interactions with the bird?
How long did you wait after getting the bird before handling it etc?

 

[Tami2]

Hi Boki,

I read a lot about resistence going back inside their cgaes when I first got Levi. So, everytime I put Levi in his cage, (in the beginning) it was followed by his favorite treat. I wanted him to understand that going back inside his cage was a positive and he got rewarded.
Current day, I still do it from time to time, plus he has a few foraging toys in their with his favorite treats. Levi never gives me a problem going back into his cage. He knows there's sometime to look forward to when he gets in there.

Good Luck.

 

[Boki]

Tami, thank you for your response. My question for you is this. Was Levi trained to step up before letting him out of the cage?

Noodles - I have had Loki for 3 weeks. (She is 6 months old.) The 1st week I let her get adjusted in her cage. The 2nd week I started to get her to try to step up with no luck. Based on advice I got here, I released her out of the cage each day in the 3rd week. It has been difficult as she will not step up once she is outside of the cage. Heck, it takes a lot of effort to get her to "step up" to come out of the cage.

I am now thinking no out of cage time until she is fully "step up" trained inside of the cage. This is contradiction to the advice that out of cage is more important.

 

[ChristaNL]

Bonding is a process that happens all the time and every time you interact with your bird
it is the same as building a friendship, step by step, sharing experiences.


A molt is always hormone-triggered, so the first big molt is when they shed the baby-wear and emerge as semi-independent birds (I say semi because in a lot of species the young will still hang around the parentbirds as long as they let them and in some species the youngsters will actually help raise the next generation).


Parrots are smart and will always try to find a way of getting what they want when they want it, so that is nothing to do with any age.
It is just the older birds have learned that pushing certain buttons does not get them anything and that other behaviours are rewarded -> so they do not seem to be 'all that pushy' anymore.
It is a great sign that a baby starts to be 'pushy' and 'trying to figure out the world' it means it is learning and starting to think for itself.


How you reward the 'good' behaviours is up to you.
But just like teaching kids: positive experiences will work, punishment will not.
As long as you keep focused on rewarding what behaviours you want and gently deal with the ones that are not okay (like biting too hard) you can't go wrong.
(thats why we have all the stickies here, to help anyone deal with those not-so-nice ones)

 

[Jen5200]

My conures are flighted, and came to me as adults (rehomes and rescues) - so I absolutely feel your pain about not being able to get them back into their cage when I needed them to go in while we were getting used to each other and building a bond. Mine did step up (mostly), but they would just fly away if they didn’t want to go back in. I spent a bit of time learning what their absolute favourite food was - with all of mine, it’s apple. Then I spent some time teaching them that they get a tiny piece of apple (or applesauce if I’m out of apples) when they go into their cage. They never get a piece of apple any other time - I don’t feed it as part of their diet. Their chop uses other veggies and fruit. It has turned going into the cage into a good thing over time. Now I just say “apple time” and everyone flies to their cage and waits for me to provide their tiny cube of apple and close the doors. It’s not an instant process by any stretch, but with a bit of time invested it has worked quite well for me. I use different treats for training than I use to go into the cage (and I chop those up pretty small so that I don’t “fill them up” on treats).

 

[YSGC]

Pico gets tons of attention and love outside the cage.
He's very social and a real cuddle bunny.
I often work from home and he loves to join me in nearly everything I do.

Parrot flocks and dog packs have a pecking order.
Each individual vies to be at the top.
That is their way so I respect it and employ it.
I don't expect my parrot to think or be like a human.
That is why I've made it clear from day 1 that I am the alpha bird in this flock's pecking order.

We are not equal partners.
That's a human thing.
Pico's not human; he's parrot.
It works out very very well.
For examples of this way of living with such pets watch that PBS series "Dog Whisperer" with Cesar Millan.

I respect Pico's territory by never putting my hand into his cage when he's in it.
He is step-up trained onto my finger and onto a portable perch.
But when he's in his territory, cage and playgrounds and stand perches scattered around the house, I never offer my finger to step up, only the perch.
Even when I change his food and water Pico is not in his cage.

Pico has enormous autonomy and freedom of movement in the house.
When he wants to enter or leave his cage he does so by himself.
But when I want him to do so I use a perch.
There is never a struggle.

IMO a parrot is happier living in a social system that is more like that of parrots.

 

[Laurasea]

Ok I understand the problem better now. Sometimes working with them out if the cage to teach step up can actually be easier than in the cage. That is if they are territorial of the cage. If they aren't possessive of the cage, and don't run away from you in cage. Then yes teaching step up at the door can be easier. For me teaching anything is all about bribeing. First they get a treat (usually seeds work best here) just for coming to me. After lots of doing that, I move to a treat if they let me put a finger on their breast. Then a treat if they even lift a leg like they are thinking of step up. Then I hold the treat in the other side of the hand and they have to lean over to get it. Then they have to step up to get it. Even if they step up and jump right back off. That method is called shaping, you are shaping their behavior until you reach the desired behavior. I use that method to teach them to pick up stuff. I give a treat if they look at an object I want them to pick up. Then a treat if they step towards the object, then a treat if they touch the object, then a treat if they pick it up. It takes repetitive, and breaks, and working on it on different days. But they get faster as they learn what you want, and that you are trying to teach something. Hope all that helps.

 

[Boki]

Thanks Laurasea. The shaping concept really helps. She has stepped up with one foot on my finger but then pulls it off. I will now treat her more with that behavior. She is not cage territorial at all. She has eaten out of my palm. The few times she has stepped up I have brought her out of the cage immediately. I am now thinking I need to reinforce the stepping up inside the cage first.

 

[ChristaNL]

The same here: going back into the cage 'because I said so' = snacktime.
So they may not be a well trained as those of Jen, but it works.
They may not like going back in there, but they never protest too much.


Sunny still goes ballistic if she sees food but thinks she will not get it, so it really is: parrot back in the cage and only *then* offer the reward.
If she sees the reward first... problems will arise.
She probably has been teased with (not getting) offered food ( I do not know enough about her background, this is based on observation and her reactions) but it sometimes can lead to misunderstandings.
(and with a beak that size those are no fun )

 

[Laurasea]

Sounds like she is a good sweet girl, abd you are well on your way! Once she catches on she will do great! Yes have get her to repeat it several times. If she steps up give the treat while saying step up. Then put her right back on the perch and repeat. You don't want to do it so many times they get board. But you want to do it a few times to reenforce that behavior, and thats what you are asking for. Then you can move her to a new location and practice again. A few times, several times a day, until she will always do it. And like mentioned by other members, lots of treats when you put her back in the cage. Always use the same words, and the same praise word. So step up, then good girl and treat. When I take my back to the cage, I say time to go back, put them in say good girl and treat again. Can't wait to see pictures of your baby!

 

[Tami2]

Tami, thank you for your response. My question for you is this. Was Levi trained to step up before letting him out of the cage?

You're welcome. Oh no, I couldn't get near him for months. My husband made wooden perches for him to step up on to get him back in. Or I lured him in with treats.