The *respectful* GMO discussion thread

[Kalidasa]

Just want to say first of all, much better thread. Second of all, I don't have a dog in this fight, so I'm just going on what I've learned thus far, and admittedly haven't done extensive research on this topic. But from what I understand, ALL (100%) modern produce is genetically modified, and even the "non-GMO" stuff has genetic modification in its history, so it's GMO as well. Genetic modification can be cross pollination (every time a flower is pollinated, genetic modifications occur), selective breeding, grafting, and DNA "splicing". So from my understanding, unless you're going into the woods and foraging wild plants far, far away from human influence, you're eating GMO food...plant and animal.
I've heard a lot of bad stuff about GMO, but I've also heard good stuff. Like how many GMO products have a much higher vitamin content than their wild counterparts, among other things.
What I haven't found yet (and we may never) is concrete study results that GMO is harmful to humans (or pets). I've read a lot of theories, and "Internet news" from biased websites. Now, admittedly I haven't read every post on this (or the other, ruder) thread. Again, I'm not for or against, just want to know more (FACTS).
Also, I'm not into conspiracy theories, nor do I think men in seersucker suits meet in closed rooms plotting against the public. Not from the food industry anyway
Also, from my understanding, GMO foods are chewed up and eaten, then dissolved in digestive juices, nutrients absorbed, waste passed. In order for it to affect my DNA, I would have to have sex with the GMO produce, and reproduce for the genes to be mixed.
I do buy (and grow) organic, because of pesticides, which of course are poison. But they cannot magically splice pesticides into plant cells. In order to modify genes, they have to use living genetic cells. For instance, mint, and marigolds are naturally insect repellents, and they are non-toxic. So they isolate the gene that sends chemical signals to insects saying "don't eat this plant". From my understanding they use safe plants with qualities and vitamin content to introduce into the host plant cells.

 

[faeryphoebe1]

My brother is one of those "crazy" ones that if you get him started on medication, science, Gmo, etc... He won't stop. He has a five acres garden, greenhouses, a fully stocked storm cellar for natural disasters, and has started raising tilapia so he can be fully sustainable. Oh and they have chickens too. He originally got ducks to use for his own meat too but turns out he can't kill them, so they live in the pond and he winterized them just like the chicken. (He lives in maine).

However, he originally told me I should not take my medications for anxiety and depression until he saw that no amount of organic healthy eating would fix me.

I do believe certain foods cause harm and we may never know the extent of it, but being anti gmo, I am not.

It's cool that your brother has done all that. Wow, very smart.

I agree with you and Puck on the meds, though.

Brain chemistry is brain chemistry. Organic foods cannot replace meds that are life saving.

 

[labell]

Gosh I would love it if these topics could be discussed without the words "crazy" and "conspiracy". I appreciate being able to be passionate about something that I have looked into, have witnessed results for myself and seen it in others without being labeled a nut case or extreme in some way.
Some of the words thrown out there are the very reason people keep these topics to themselves.
It is completely fine with me if people don't agree and continue to eat as they please I respect people's right to choose for themselves but right now without truth in labeling we are not given that choice. I for one want that choice.

 

[Kiwibird]

Just want to say first of all, much better thread. Second of all, I don't have a dog in this fight, so I'm just going on what I've learned thus far, and admittedly haven't done extensive research on this topic. But from what I understand, ALL modern produce is genetically modified, and even the "non-GMO" stuff has genetic modification in its history, so it's GMO as well. Genetic modification can be cross pollination (every time a flower is pollinated, genetic modifications occur), selective breeding, grafting, and DNA "splicing". So from my understanding, unless you're going into the woods and foraging wild plants far, far away from human influence, you're eating GMO food...plant and animal.
I've heard a lot of bad stuff about GMO, but I've also heard good stuff. Like how many GMO products have a much higher vitamin content than their wild counterparts, among other things.
What I haven't found yet (and we may never) is concrete study results that GMO is harmful to humans (or pets). I've read a lot of theories, and "Internet news" from biased websites. Now, admittedly I haven't read every post on this (or the other, ruder) thread. Again, I'm not for or against, just want to know more (FACTS).
Also, I'm not into conspiracy theories, nor do I think men in seersucker suits meet in closed rooms plotting against the public. Not from the food industry anyway
Also, from my understanding, GMO foods are chewed up and eaten, then dissolved in digestive juices, nutrients absorbed, waste passed. In order for it to affect my DNA, I would have to have sex with the GMO produce, and reproduce for the genes to be mixed.

I think you may learn few key differences between natural cross pollination or random genetic mutations and the gene splicing and insertion of genes from other species in GMO's. Whether or not you find gene splicing dangerous is a whole other story, but there is some major differences in how those 2 processes work. I would encourage you to learn more so you can make an informed decision.

I think the aspect of deliberate plotting to harm the public is probably not appropriate to discuss here. There isn't much "evidence" to be presented on either side and much is presumption. I think it would be clear where my opinion lies on that subject, but I have no real "facts" to back that up like I do the overall safety concerns of GMO's.

 

[Kiwibird]

Gosh I would love it if these topics could be discussed without the words "crazy" and "conspiracy". I appreciate being able to be passionate about something that I have looked into, have witnessed results for myself and seen it in others without being labeled a nut case or extreme in some way.
Some of the words thrown out there are the very reason people keep these topics to themselves.
It is completely fine with me if people don't agree and continue to eat as they please I respect people's right to choose for themselves but right now without truth in labeling we are not given that choice. I for one want that choice.

I agree. This thread is about debating the safety as it relates to our birds (and maybe a bit how it relates to us humans), not who, what, when and where is "behind" it.

Overall though, the thread has been civil and we are hearing different POV's which is a good thing. I think it may be interesting for those who feel they are safe to post some links to studies and the science that makes them have that opinion.

 

[labell]

Just want to say first of all, much better thread. Second of all, I don't have a dog in this fight, so I'm just going on what I've learned thus far, and admittedly haven't done extensive research on this topic. But from what I understand, ALL modern produce is genetically modified, and even the "non-GMO" stuff has genetic modification in its history, so it's GMO as well. Genetic modification can be cross pollination (every time a flower is pollinated, genetic modifications occur), selective breeding, grafting, and DNA "splicing". So from my understanding, unless you're going into the woods and foraging wild plants far, far away from human influence, you're eating GMO food...plant and animal.
I've heard a lot of bad stuff about GMO, but I've also heard good stuff. Like how many GMO products have a much higher vitamin content than their wild counterparts, among other things.
What I haven't found yet (and we may never) is concrete study results that GMO is harmful to humans (or pets). I've read a lot of theories, and "Internet news" from biased websites. Now, admittedly I haven't read every post on this (or the other, ruder) thread. Again, I'm not for or against, just want to know more (FACTS).
Also, I'm not into conspiracy theories, nor do I think men in seersucker suits meet in closed rooms plotting against the public. Not from the food industry anyway
Also, from my understanding, GMO foods are chewed up and eaten, then dissolved in digestive juices, nutrients absorbed, waste passed. In order for it to affect my DNA, I would have to have sex with the GMO produce, and reproduce for the genes to be mixed.

You actually don't have to have sex with something to have it effect your dna. You are in Michigan, I was raised there during the time that PBB a flame retardant was accidentally put into farm animal feed. (pellets were similar in size) this was early 70's. It never goes away, it is in your body forever and can even effect future children and their health thereby effecting your dna.

Once the farmers realized what was happening (it took quite a while) they estimate that 9 out of 10 people during that time have some contamination of PBB I can remember going to the store with my dad and entire shelves and cases were empty. NO milk, cheese or red meat.

There were farmers that in a panic back hoed huge holes on their farms, drove their cattle in and started shooting... then buried them. Unfortunately they didn't think about those cows decaying and the PBB now being released into the ground water where it remains to this day, leeching out.

 

[Flboy]

Agree, agree, agree! There is the sky is falling crowd, ' what if, can never be too careful, global warming, etc. Many folks do think GMO is just cross pollination! There are strong studies linking increased soy allergies to GMO strains. But, hey, soy is another sore point by itself!

 

[Flboy]

And don't get me started in the whole 'organically grown' thing!

 

[Kiwibird]

You actually don't have to have sex with something to have it effect your dna. You are in Michigan, I was raised there during the time that PBB a fertilizer was accidentally put into farm animal feed. (pellets were similar in size) this was early 70's. It never goes away, it is in your body forever and can even effect future children and their health thereby effecting your dna.

Once the farmers realized what was happening (it took quite a while) they estimate that 9 out of 10 people during that time have some contamination of PBB I can remember going to the store with my dad and entire shelves and cases were empty. NO milk, cheese or red meat.

There were farmers that in a panic back hoed huge holes on their farms, drove their cattle in and started shooting... then buried them. Unfortunately they didn't think about those cows decaying and the PBB now being released into the ground water where it remains to this day, leeching out.

I never heard about this, but will look into it.

My mom says when she was a kid her and my aunt would run through DDT mist when it was sprayed in the summer (which was apparently a pretty common thing to do). That's another persistent environmental toxin that will wreck havoc for generations to come from our 'friends' at Monsanto.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I really want to applaud everyone how great this thread is going! :respect:

...and you all know me, I now have to throw in a funny (but a fact nonetheless)

While growing up in Germany, a small village, 1,500 people, surrounded by farm land, I more often than not smelled like the 'honey wagon' that would regularly fertilize the fields. No, not human compost, but compost from cows.... :54: :32: (Fond, FOND memories)

 

[labell]

I do want to clarify I typed fertilizer but PBB was actually used as a flame retardant.

 

[Doublete]

I put crazy in quotes because my brother can go off the deep end when he gets started. I love him but sometimes I wonder how we are related.


When those nurses came back possibly infected with Ebola I got multiple page long texts warning me and how to go into isolation if I had to. And my mom would relay what his plans were if he and his chihuahua had to go in to the storm cellar. Comical somewhat.

Please don't take offense to the fact I put crazy in quotes. He is my brother, so it is a term of endearment knowing the passion he has for all of this.

 

[Doublete]

Oh... And if you want proof of certain things...
My brother feeds his chickens all organic natural food.
The eggs are PHENOMENAL.

he also raised guineas at one point. But once you eat an organic natural fed chicken you will never buy a normal grocery store chicken again.

Coincidence?

 

[Kiwibird]

Oh... And if you want proof of certain things...
My brother feeds his chickens all organic natural food.
The eggs are PHENOMENAL.

he also raised guineas at one point. But once you eat an organic natural fed chicken you will never buy a normal grocery store chicken again.

Coincidence?

Diet is one factor, so is lack of antibiotics, hormones and stressful/unnatural living conditions commercial chickens suffer before slaughter. THAT is a WHOLE other topic though:54:

 

[Puck]

Oh... And if you want proof of certain things...
My brother feeds his chickens all organic natural food.
The eggs are PHENOMENAL.

he also raised guineas at one point. But once you eat an organic natural fed chicken you will never buy a normal grocery store chicken again.

Coincidence?

Diet is one factor, so is lack of antibiotics, hormones and stressful/unnatural living conditions commercial chickens suffer before slaughter. THAT is a WHOLE other topic though:54:

OH YEAH, the treatment of chickens by big corporations is one soap box you don't want to get me on cause I ain't coming back down!!! BackyardChickens forum member here! But then considering this is a bird forum I'm guessing we would all be up on that box!

 

[Kiwibird]

Now, I'm not a "prepper" type or anything like that, more someone who feels if the information is out there on certain subjects, I should go ahead and inform myself. I have a pretty good BS filter though (aliens run the government? I think NOT). My family refers to me as a "tree hugger", "earth muffin", "bark licker" and I'm sure call me a conspiracy nut behind my back (except my mom, I think she just agrees to disagree). I guess I've grown a pretty thick skin about such terminology personally. It's not constructive, but it usually reflects more on the person saying it than it does me.

Back to the topic of GMO's for parrots though I like that this has been kept pretty civil so far despite opposing viewpoints. Anyone care to possibly do some joint research to compile a list of GMO/non-GMO pellet brands/varieties as a reference for members (since so many use them)?

 

[Ann333]

I'm currently studying GMO food in my microbiology class. I'm fine with it.

 

[RavensGryf]

Take it as you will, but I was diagnosed with Crohn's in my teens. It is a truly painful, debilitating condition that was so aggressive in my case, I was essentially starving to death. I was frustrated, exhausted and in agony 24 hours a day. The medications, stays in the hospital and (clearly) unsound diet recommended by the doctors only seemed to be exacerbating it. I didn't even want to entertain the idea of surgery at that point. That is when I switched my diet to predominantly organic, more fresh and limited to no processed foods. Within 6 weeks of making common sense dietary changes I was improving more than my doctors had been able to help over the course of 18 months with their "advanced medical knowledge and technology". It took a good 8 months to return to 'normal', but it has been in total remission now for about 7 years. Some may not believe or agree with me, but I will never be convinced otherwise that it wasn't the food (including a lot of likely GMO products) that caused the Crohns and that removing those foods saved my life.

Wow April, what a great testimonial! That's wonderful, 7 years in remission! If that's not proof right there what foods can do to help or hinder long term... I'm learning something here ...

I've been a fitness enthusiast for many years, but I have to admit (even as a former personal trainer) I haven't always eaten real clean :54:... and when I do eat right, I admit I don't give too much of a second thought about whether it's organic, GMO, etc. I'm going to become much more aware now!! My digestive issues have gotten worse and worse in the past several years too... gosh, who knows what's in a lot of my food that I think is healthy?! Maybe it's the culprit for me also.

 

[Hawk]

The long term effects are something that truly concerns me. Most folks when I ask them their thoughts on gmo don't realize that it isn't healthier more hardy plants or hybrid roses but gmo'd with bug dna or built in pesticides. Or a kill gene that keeps the plant from producing seed to be replanted. The biggest offender Monsanto is the creator of Round Up and many of the pesticides that are killing off bees. Another topic I don't think a lot of folks realize the important role bees play in our food chain.
Monsanto was responsible for agent orange, those of us old enough to know or have fought in Vietnam know the long term effects this defoliant had on people.

“If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man.” – Albert Einstein

Albert Einstein said it best....without batting an eye, because it's true.

 

[Dinosrawr]

I think, in general, there does need to be clarification on how an organism was GM'd before we consider it harmful. I do not enjoy that my food is overwhelmed with pesticides to increase the overall look and production of it. But being sprayed with pesticides vs. being genetically enhanced are two different things.

We've genetically modified so many things, and April I agree very much that GMO's can be used for good. We've been genetically modifying plants for increased crop production, improved vitamin intake, or the ability to withstand harsher conditions. What is concerning is when there isn't enough transparency or explanation on what is being inserted, how that particular piece of genetic information from that particular species of bacteria/plant has adverse effects on what the plant produces physiologically, and what those physiological productions do to human physiology in return. It isn't as simple as, "omg, those genes are altered which means mine will be!", rather "well, what does it make this plant produce, and how will my body be impacted when it breaks it down and absorbs it?"

The issue I have with the GMO battle is that it's constantly shoved in your face by individuals who aren't willing to encourage but instead willing to shame (from either side). There's just too many people who don't know what it means to be organic vs GMO-free vs non-organic. Generally speaking, organic IS and SHOULD BE (by law) GMO-free (which is why I find the label to be redundant, personally). But even then, what consumers don't understand is what a GMO is. Can they be harmful? Most definitely. Is the purpose and aim of a GMO to harm? No. Can it be a side effect? You bet your pretty little bottom. I would argue that's also part of being in our current society. Everything you can buy commercially is laced with a chemical that can do you harm, but is deemed inactive enough by strict regulations that they are considered safe - deodorant, shampoo, hairspray, make-up, lotion, creams, you name it.

Science is a double edged sword. It can't always be perfect, and when it's purpose is capital gain then it becomes difficult to put your trust in it. But without it, we would have so little in means of medicine, food, and technology to name a few things. I am not against a GMO, and chances are we're going to need them pretty badly with the way the world is going (hello chocolate crisis!). But there's a serious need for transparency. I hope one day we'll get there.