What to avoid when buying new parrot-safe Oven?

[Aratingettar]

What to avoid when buying new parrot-safe Oven?...

... and why?


I know it may be hard, as there are huge differences between US and EURO appliances, but maybe some general rules will apply.
I need to upgrade my built-in electric oven, and need to know what should I avoid to keep my house safe for parrots.


TEFLON - does it happen to be used in Ovens? If yes, is it listed explicitly or hidden under some marketing mumbo-jumbo?


SELF CLEANING (catalyst) - is it dangerous? If yes, is it dangerous if the "self cleaning" function is not used? (may be important, because now most of the mid-range stuff is equipped with some form of self cleaning, so probably giving up on that would mean low-end only)


Anything other in particular that comes to your mind?

 

[noodles123]

What to avoid when buying new parrot-safe Oven?...

... and why?


I know it may be hard, as there are huge differences between US and EURO appliances, but maybe some general rules will apply.
I need to upgrade my built-in electric oven, and need to know what should I avoid to keep my house safe for parrots.

TEFLON - does it happen to be used in Ovens? If yes, is it listed explicitly or hidden under some marketing mumbo-jumbo?

SELF CLEANING (catalyst) - is it dangerous? If yes, is it dangerous if the "self cleaning" function is not used? (may be important, because now most of the mid-range stuff is equipped with some form of self cleaning, so probably giving up on that would mean low-end only)

Anything other in particular that comes to your mind?

Yes it is in old ovens as well (it has been around since the late 30s) and it can be applied to metal as a colored coating (black, grey, silver, pink, green etc), a transparent topcoat (invisible), or mixed into the metal during the molding process (invisible). It doesn't go away with age (and off-gassing potential is actually even higher in older products, as the chemicals start to break down and off-gas at higher rates).

It is even woven into fabrics that are intended to repel water or heat up (e.g, raincoats and ironing board covers)...A raincoat will be safe to wear unless you iron it or put it in the dryer--then the chemicals heat and can off-gas. Using a steel iron on a teflon-woven ironing board covers poses similar risks...Heck, I just saw a bunch of cloth dog crate covers (cute ones) containing it, and it is even in some water-proof mascara (again, not that it matters...but it is in a lot of stuff that you wouldn't expect). It is relatively safe unless you heat it up at all.

Yes it is hidden under a million different names and it can be hidden inside of appliances that heat (on motor parts etc).

If an appliance heats up (internally or externally) or is designed to withstand heat (as in trays, pots, pans etc) you need to call or write with an inquiry specifying all of the full chemical names and abbreviations...not just Teflon (as Teflon is merely one popular brand). Like ParrotGenie said in a separate post, a lot of companies are now marketing things as PTFE/PFOA free because they know this is frowned upon, but you still need to verify that they aren't using some chemically similar fluoronated compound just so that they can call their product PTFE/PFOA free.

Self-cleaning ovens can be dangerous, but if Teflon free, they often are generally safe unless you use the self-cleaning function.... If you get any oven (self-cleaning or non) you must make sure it is free of PFCs/PTFE/PFOA/Teflon. Some self-cleaning ovens do contain it, so those wouldn't be safe even if you never used the self-clean function. Other ovens without a self-cleaning function also contain it, so again, those would not be safe. If you find a self-cleaning oven without any of these chemicals, then it should be safe as long as you never use the self-cleaning function.

Even an oven without Teflon in it can kill birds on the self-clean setting...SO once you verify that something is Teflon/PTFE/PFOA/PFC free, you still cannot use the self-clean function.

When you get a new oven (even Teflon free) you need to run it at a very high heat with your bird completely out of the house. Then give your house plenty of time to air-out...seriously...
They are all coated in factory coatings that burn off and off-gas during the first few uses.


WHY- Teflon/PFCs/PFOA/PTFE produces an odorless gas when heated. This gas can kill birds in as little as 5 minutes and there is no cure. Doors/walls do not prevent poisoning, so using products with Teflon anywhere in your home can kill your bird. People have lost birds on different floors when using Teflon products... Dupont (one main manufacturer) claims that off-gassing only occurs at unsafe temperatures (like when you burn food or forget a pot of water on the stove to the point of dry heat)--This is not the case though, as MSU (a college in Missouri) lost thousands of chicks due to heat lamps coated in Teflon--they only reached a heat of something like 350 degrees F. My point is, regardless of the supposed safe temperatures, there are plenty of well-documented, conflicting reports that indicate lower temperatures can be just as deadly to birds...SOOO....don't use it in your home.

 

[LauraC]

Noodles123, thank you for all the information.

I am thinking of remodeling our kitchen and family room area. We plan to completely gut it and also buying new appliances and flooring and painting and scraping the ceilings

I have a lot of anxiety about this because I don’t want to do anything to harm Fuji just because I want a fresh look for our house.

How long do you think the bird should be removed from the house once the work is done and the oven and stove have had their burning cycle?

We are in the beginning stages of planning this. I also plan to discuss this with my Avian vet. I would never forgive myself if something happened to Fuji.


All comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Laura

 

[noodles123]

Noodles123, thank you for all the information.

I am thinking of remodeling our kitchen and family room area. We plan to completely gut it and also buying new appliances and flooring and painting and scraping the ceilings

I have a lot of anxiety about this because I don’t want to do anything to harm Fuji just because I want a fresh look for our house.

How long do you think the bird should be removed from the house once the work is done and the oven and stove have had their burning cycle?

We are in the beginning stages of planning this. I also plan to discuss this with my Avian vet. I would never forgive myself if something happened to Fuji.


All comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Laura

Paint is tough because it can take a long time for that smell to go away (depending on the type used). I am honestly not sure, but if you can smell it after leaving for a period of time and then coming back into the house, I would definitely say that you should keep your bird away..On top of that, if you do a laminate flooring or something, that will need time to off-gas as well, plus whatever adhesive is used to apply it. Then there is the dust from the ceilings...Just on gut instinct alone, I am inclined to say 1-2 weeks or so....but again, I haven't remodeled with my bird around. It could take more or less time, depending on so many factors.

I would definitely invest in a few air filters (hepa, non-ionizing/non-ozone producing) and run them after the renovations. I have a Veva that I got off of Amazon and you could get more than 1 for under $100 (I think). At one per room, you still wouldn't be out that much (compared to the cost of renovations).

In terms of the oven, I would say at least 24-48 hours or so (24 would probably be okay)---with windows open- When my ex seasoned cast-iron at high heat, that smell lingered for HOURS ...Like I said, you will want to crank up the heat to burn off anything from the factory and run it for a few hours at that high heat). Remember, birds are more sensitive than we are and smells we can't detect (AKA PTFE/PFOA etc) can kill them, even when we can't smell it.

I wish I could be of more help! I would rather be safe than sorry.
Hopefully someone else will chime in.

 

[SailBoat]

If you use drip pans or plates there is no reason to buy a 'SELF CLEANING' oven /range. In addition to being dangerous to Parrots and Humans, they are a fire source since they are commonly tightly installed between the cabinets and back wall trapping heat, which can seriously damage or cause a fire. A detailed read of the installation directions define spacing requirements for this type of oven /range.

All ranges and ovens off-gas protective oils used to coat the ranges and ovens prior to installation. As a result, after installation and prior to finishing your kitchen remodel, you will need to heat cycle it over several hours to cook-off those coatings. Once they are removed by this process, no further concern is needed.

FYI: Assure that your design includes a fan (commonly over the range /oven) that removes kitchen cooking flumes.

NOTE: The above is a standard procedure for common protective oils and the heat cycling will not remove or reduce the thread of PFCs/PTFE/PFOA/Teflon.

Add Point: Ovens /ranges that do not include PFCs/PTFE/PFOA/Teflon, but do have a 'self cleaning' functions can be used like a standard oven /range that does not have that function. But remember: The drips and drops that 'burn-off' and the volume in the air from that 'burning' (cleaning process) is dangerous to Humans with COPD and like illnesses, young Humans and Parrots.

 

[noodles123]

Yes--- most new appliances that heat or need to be heated contain an unsafe factory coating-- this has nothing to do with whether or not the product contains Teflon/PFCs. Heating Teflon/PFCs will not get rid of the risk over time...it will actually only amplify it. No Teflon/PFCs should ever be used in a bird owner's home.


BIG WARNING THOUGH--- drip trays are a rather notorious source of PFCs (for easy, non-stick clean-up). Make sure there is no coating on them because when they heat up, the heat is dry and if they contain a Teflon-type chemical, it will off-gas. More than one parrot death has been linked to PTFE/PFOA/PFC/Teflon-containing drip-trays (an oft-overlooked source of poisoning). Remember- visual inspection alone is not enough, as the coating can be transparent or mixed into the metal itself. People often assume that it will look like a traditional non-stick pan, and that is simply not true.

 

[noodles123]

"I always specify the full names AND abbreviations of everything I am worried about: PTFE= polytetrafluoroethyline, PFOA=Perfluorooctanoic acid, PFCs=Perfluorinated compounds, PFAS= polyfluoroalkyl substances and Teflon...anything with "fluoro" in it..."

^^^from another thread-
http://www.parrotforums.com/general...rd-safe-non-ptfe-non-teflon-toaster-oven.html

 

[LauraC]

It makes me almost not want to remodel but our house is in desperate need of it. I will look into the air filters. I was told Rabbit Air Purfiers were the best but they are very expensive.

I was going to ask a friend or relative if me and Fuji could stay with them for awhile but I will have to educate them about Teflon as well. To non-bird owners they just don’t get how sensitive birds are to these things.

 

[Jen5200]

I just bought an oven a few months ago, and the manufacturer website advises against using the self-clean function if you have birds. It also advised running the oven at high temp for a few hours away from the birds to burn-off any chemical residue. I set it up on my deck outside and ran it for a few hours - I could smell chemicals, so was glad that I looked into it first. Then moved it into the house and all has been fine - and we’ll clean the oven the old fashioned way...by hand.

 

[LauraC]

I just bought an oven a few months ago, and the manufacturer website advises against using the self-clean function if you have birds. It also advised running the oven at high temp for a few hours away from the birds to burn-off any chemical residue. I set it up on my deck outside and ran it for a few hours - I could smell chemicals, so was glad that I looked into it first. Then moved it into the house and all has been fine - and we’ll clean the oven the old fashioned way...by hand.

Do you mind me asking what brand you bought?