What to Say to People Who Think Flighting your Bird Is Like Abuse

[LoryLover]

Thirteen years ago, when our lory was 2 yrs old we stopped clipping her wings. My husband and I both feel a bird should be a bird (and birds are meant to fly). We clipped until she was 2, because we felt she'd be completely bonded to us by then. She doesn't just fly around the house though. On weekdays when we get home from work and let her out of her cage, she will fly from the top of her 6 foot cage and land on a chair or the bed in the room across the house, and do a couple flights back and forth like that. The rest of the evening she mainly travels on floor, as she plays with her toys. She seems to use flight if she needs to travel a distance of 5 feet or more, otherwise, she just walks or hops on the floor. If I'm sitting in a chair, she will walk over and wait for me to reach down and pick her up, or if I have long pants on, she will climb up my pant leg. My husband likes to lay crosswise on our kingsized bed and watch tv, so she will walk on the floor to the bed and then fly up to the bed to be with him. This is just how she acclimated herself to our routines.

 

[birdbrainzz4me]

this is some excellent reading! because flighted and non flighted is definitely a non stop debate on weather you should or shouldn't do it. in the past with my two ekkies i had, being they were my first larger birds, our breeder recommended that they had their wings clipped. being a novice at the time fallowed as instructed for the safety of my new fids. but as they got older, and wanted to be were ever i was their clipped wings never stopped them. granted they couldn't fly fly but still managed to at least glide a few feet and flutter to the floor and walk the rest of the way to were i was at. wanting to bring a gw into the house in the near future, this is something that i thought about. watching youtube videos of macaws in free flight is something mystical. i get the goosebumps sometimes just watching them. i agree, birds were given wings so they could fly the same as fish were given fins so they can swim and we were given legs so we could walk. by taking that away from some one or something disables them from doing much more than they are capable of doing. but i can also see the other side of the debate the mother hen side so to speak about keeping the fids safe from harms way. i would love to have my gw fully flighted, but worry about the dangers as well. like for instance, what if you had a very well trained flighted bird, who just so happened to take a heroic leap and decide that they didn't want a hawk around you, and chase after it to defend it's partner. i never heard of a story like this but it ran across my mind. if they are capable of chasing an undesired person around the house because they didn't want them near their person, they could be capable of doing the same thing to any wild animal outside. maybe i'm over exaggerating on this a little bit but it was a thought that came across. and this forum is the place to clear the air when it comes to topics like these.

 

[Helitorian]

I'm sitting here laughing cause you guys are all worried about hawks getting your birds while I'm looking out my bedroom window at a lovely pair of bald eagles. In the future, I plan on having a macaw(s) and I would love to free fly them but as long as I live with my dad in our cabin, I can't because: 1) I don't have the room and 2) afore mentioned eagles who'd love an exotic dinner.

If it weren't for my majestic Gabriel and his lady friend (I hope!), I would free fly Con outside in a heartbeat after the proper training. In my opinion, nothing is more beautiful than a bird in flight and if I ever could, I would join them. Heck I think we all would if we could.

 

[MonicaMc]

Heather, I have heard of some macaws in southern California that would chase seagulls, and the seagulls would in turn chase the macaws. I think even a crow got into the mix... There were at least 3 or 4 macaws... one or two red fronts, a blue and gold, and maybe a scarlet or greenwing?

Tried to find the photos/story about it and came across some videos by someone I am not familiar with... but may also be of interest.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B0ErV4_nnM]Flying with the seagulls - YouTube[/ame]


Go to Youtube and read the description on this one!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuV9PAJ9ROI]Sea bird chasing Kyle - YouTube[/ame]



I think noblemacaw may also be interested in these videos.



And, I found the birds I was thinking of! And not to mention poor Carly. There's a few blogs about Carly being chased by seagulls, falcons and crows?

Carly | Carly Lu's Flight Blog

I can't find the particular article/blog about it at the moment, but I believe it was Hugh Choi and Otis and Gizmo that were flying with some other macaws in California. Otis and Gizmo are mentioned a few times in Carly Lu's blog, but I'm pretty sure it was probably on Hugh's website that has since been shut down/changed ownership? At least, I'm assuming so since Hugh has a new website for parrot training (not just free-flight but training in general) and the other is, unfortunately, gone.

 

[Tammy]

I don't know how big your bird is, but when I got my boxer puppy hawks would dive bomb him while I was holding the leash. Also, in our parking lot I keep finding torn up birds, half wings & feathers strewn about underneath the hawk tree.

I think a lot of people just don't want to take the risk. It's like I trust my 10 year old to walk a block to the store, but do I want to take the chance of some crazy person grabbing her? No I don't.

But there is a free-flighted Cockatoo on this forum (Amigo I believe?) He is as large or larger than the area hawks & therefore there's nothing to worry about. Someone else on here posted a picture of a hawk on the ground stunned after ramming into the window in a failed attack.

 

[noblemacaw]

Monica,

I have seen the California RFM's videos and have seen Hugh Choi free fly his Otis. The birds came from my breeder Wendy Craig. I think Otis and Hugh are now in NYC

Here is the link from Wendy's web site

Once Otis settled into his New Y

I don't think I will ever be brave enough to totally free fly my Valentino. He will fly from his harness with an extension after he is trained to come to me every time. Once he has total recall and the weather is warm enough I will try him in his harness outside. I cannot wait.

Right now I am having a bit of a time getting Valentino to fly from me to a station. I point to where I want him to fly and then motion my arm in that direction. Valentino will fly but like a boomerang lands right back on my hand. Sometimes Valentino is like a cootie bug I can't get him off of me or to fly off of me back to his tree. LOL

 

[MonicaMc]

I didn't know that's where Hugh got his RF's! Although, it should be of no surprise!


I was hoping to find photos of Otis & Gizmo at the beach in California where they were flying with other macaws and something about them being chased by seagulls and crows... at least, I was pretty sure it was them and from The Otis Effect website. The website is gone now, so I can't confirm this without contacting Hugh... but it's just something of interest and not great concern so I don't feel the need to confirm it really.


It is possible I may have gotten it confused with Carlylu and her advantures, too. It's been many years now...

 

[faeryphoebe1]

Is letting your bird fly around the house not the norm then?

I can relate with this question. I also believed that many parrot owners free-flighted their parrots inside the house, as well, haha!

I've had such a personal struggle with the issue of wing clipping. Trixie's were clipped when I brought her home. After months of careful thought and consideration, I decided to allow her feathers to grow out. They haven't grown out all the way yet, but she's beginning to fly and can land on my head from her playtop perch (that's on the top of her cage).

I can tell that she's afraid, but her confidence is growing daily. We just mustn't eat in front of her, otherwise she's fly right at us, lol.

Kudos to you free outdoor flight folks. It must be a marvelous site to see these pet parrots flying outside. How incredible!

 

[noblemacaw]

I can't wait to be able to take Valentino outside. I will be using the Aviator harness for him to fly outside. I am not brave enough to totally free fly him. In the short time I have had Valentino I have become quite attached to him.

I have learned the hard way that Parrots need a LOT of exercise. Both my mini macaws had heart disease and eventually killed them. I will say there was more to their health problems than not enough exercise and avian medicine has come a long way in the 20 plus years I have lived with parrots. I am committed to keep Valentino as healthy as I can with what I have to work with and the information I learn. Also years ago I committed that if I am going to live with parrots I will live with them as fully flighted birds. This has worked well with me but it is a commitment to their safety and health.

Maybe someday I will learn to free fly Valentino. I would never do it without a mentor, someone to train us how to do it properly. Even if I never meet such people I will safely fly Valentino outdoors with his harness and he is flown daily indoors thought out my home.

Monica,
I have seen those video's myself years ago and was fascinated by free flying pet parrots. I remember seeing African grey with the RFM's flying free on a beach in southern California. With my first meeting a RFM back in 1997 those videos made me want a RFM even more. It has taken me all this time to finally get a RFM of my very own. Back then at 3 grand for a RFM I simply could never afford that price tag.

 

[birdbrainzz4me]

sorry it took me a while to respond to the you tube videos you shared, monica. thanks for posting them. i didn't think anybody had any response to the idea of free flighted birds chasing wild animals, or even the opposite. i enjoyed the videos, they were just awesome, the gw in the video is really enjoying himself.

 

[MonicaMc]

Free-flight is not for everyone, but a harness, when used correctly, can still be a great way to give birds exercise! If you aren't comfortable free-flying Valentino, then don't. The plans you have for him already sound fantastic!


Heather, that's fine! And glad you enjoyed!

 

[goalerjones]

My breeder has a macaw on his farm that basically lives outside except for night time and winter on his farm. The bird follows him around and feeds in his common areas but is able to come and go as he pleases. He is extremely experienced and knows what he is doing.

I on the other hand have only had smaller birds. My hahns now and my Jenday before. My Jenday was fully flighted and absolutely loved to fly. It enhanced his life and gave him confidence and allowed him to overcome his insecurities which he had upon coming to us.

Before we got our house we lived in a small studio and my Jenday escaped 3 times. Then after moving he escaped 2 more times. The 5th final escape cost him his life after eating something toxic while he was out. He died in my hands the night after we got him back.

I always thought of clipping his wings but felt I would be robbing him of who he truly was by doing so.

My Hahns is not flighted. There are 3 reasons for this. 1) losing my Jenday broke my heart, 2) my Jenday was fearful and would stay away from the areas of the house like the stovetop, the oven, etc after I showed him but my Hahns has zero fear of anything and 3) since my Hahns is so very willful, it is necessary to be able to discipline him with "alone time" when he bites or terrorizes someone unprovoked and allowing him to fly would make me put him in his cage to do this.

 

[newclassic]

I have my birds' wings unclipped so they can fly around freely in the house (they're always supervised, it's not like they'd get stepped on). However, considering how many hawks/"outdoor cats"/raccoons live in my area, on top of everything else that could spook them away, I'd never let them fly freely outside.

The reason we got birds in the first place was because a spooked lovebird flew into my mom's hair. The owner had him on his shoulder when he was like outside on the porch or in the garage, and thought it was no big deal (maybe he thought its wings were clipped but they outgrew or something? idk). He was damn lucky it flew to us, and we were able to eventually reunite them--sad thing is, literally a few months later he lost his bird for good in the same way.

We actually even had two Eclectuses fly in our yard into our 100ft eucalyptus trees! Something spooked them outside, and they flew into branches some 30 feet off the ground (the lowest branches were still some 20 feet off the ground, totally inaccessible). The owners were with us for an hour trying to figure out how to reach them, when a hawk in a nearby tree flew towards them. Funny thing is, the hawk didn't chase them or anything, he just got them to move off the tree .

I'd be leery about having small parrots (i.e. my lovebird and cockatiel) fly freely outside, or letting a bird fly freely in a confusing environment (i.e. lots of potential predators, overwhelming stimuli from the city/town, etc). But I trust the people who do it, know what they're doing.

 

[Annageckos]

You can't guarantee on a strong bond to get a bird to fly back to you, especially if they have no experience in flight and flying from different angles.

Agree!
My friend lost a bird that he has had outside free for over seven years. (and they had a very strong bond) One day the bird left him and never come back.
And he never forgive himself for that. I will never take a bird outside free after that happened. I mean seven years,,, it's only sad, and for me NOT worth it!

That is sad, I would be so heartbroken. The bird may have not have just left. Being outside the bird may have been taken by a predator. It happens, but that is the chance you take when you let an animal fly/run loose. Hawks are a big danger, they are hunters and one day may take a free flying bird. Larger birds are safer, but not immune to raptor attacks. I would love to let my little GCC free fly outside, but she will stay on the harness. There are too many raptors around my house. We have a pair of red tailed hawks and their young every year. Plus I have seen coopers hawks, sharp shinned hawks, peregrine falcon (once), bald eagles and great horned owls. The red tails, coopers and owls are the most commonly seen around the house. I am not against free flying a bird at all, you just need to be aware of the risk involved.

 

[Abigal7]

I can't wait to be able to take Valentino outside. I will be using the Aviator harness for him to fly outside. I am not brave enough to totally free fly him. In the short time I have had Valentino I have become quite attached to him.

I have learned the hard way that Parrots need a LOT of exercise. Both my mini macaws had heart disease and eventually killed them. I will say there was more to their health problems than not enough exercise and avian medicine has come a long way in the 20 plus years I have lived with parrots. I am committed to keep Valentino as healthy as I can with what I have to work with and the information I learn. Also years ago I committed that if I am going to live with parrots I will live with them as fully flighted birds. This has worked well with me but it is a commitment to their safety and health.


I think it will be fine to take
Maybe someday I will learn to free fly Valentino. I would never do it without a mentor, someone to train us how to do it properly. Even if I never meet such people I will safely fly Valentino outdoors with his harness and he is flown daily indoors thought out my home.

Monica,
I have seen those video's myself years ago and was fascinated by free flying pet parrots. I remember seeing African grey with the RFM's flying free on a beach in southern California. With my first meeting a RFM back in 1997 those videos made me want a RFM even more. It has taken me all this time to finally get a RFM of my very own. Back then at 3 grand for a RFM I simply could never afford that price tag.

Noblemacaw taking Valentino out on a harness will be great. I can understand you not wanting to take the risk. People have lost their birds (it is a chance you take). While Macaws are big they can still be taken down by hawks, owls or eagles even dogs and cats. I plan on buying a harness for Clover and also for the hahns macaw (I hope to have in the future). I have a feeling Clover will stick closly by me when we go outside. We did go out once when the weather was nice.

 

[Inverse]

I am somewhat of a naturalist/conservationist and the decision to keep a tame bird (as opposed to a domesticated animal) was a tough one to make.
I obviously went through the should I/shouldn't I clip debate but it didn't last very long. I already knew I wouldn't feel comfortable with clipping a bird's wings.
And I am so glad I made the decision I did, seeing her fly is a joy and having her fly around the lounge, up the stairs and into the den to find me is amazing.
Now if I can only get her to wear this damned aviator, I can start taking her out with me!

 

[Grinder]

For my own peace of mind I feel not allowing our birds to fly is not fair to them (I am not talking about inside versus outside - just in general). Birds are not domesticated animals and to take away something so natural to them - something that makes them truly unique to other species, just seems cruel. I don't think I will ever take my birds outside without a harness, but indoors they are allowed to fly. I love watching them circle around a few times and landing on a playstand or one of us.

I feel (just an opinion of course) that the human race feels they are above all other species and that what we do for other species is out of the kindness of our hearts and in the best interest of that species. In reality we are just justifying some things that really aren't for the best of those particular animals. Like when the county I live in announces they are gonig to go kill a few thousand deer because we are showing them mercy because there are too many and they are starving to death because of lack of food. Truth is there are actually less deer, but we have taken away their natural habitat by buidling roads, houses, towns. So they have to venture beyond the woods and now they are getting hit by cars causing damage and injurying people. That is our fault - not theirs. We feel we have a right to impose our will on other species.

Birds are not meant to live in cages. We put them there for their own safety and our own peace of mind because we have chosen to keep them and want to justify the fact that we've taken them from their natural enviroment. Our birds tend to learn that their cages are their homes and a great place of safety. Just as our dogs are crate trained and that is where they stay when we are gone, but yet they willing sleep in their crate when we are home because they know it is safe.

The big difference is that we don't remove something from our dogs that is a major part of what makes them a dog. We dont plug their ears so they don't hear what's going outside less or stuff their noses so their amazing sense of smell doesnt distract them. This is why I do not clip my birds wings. Flying to them is an amazing gift and it makes them unique to other species. Why take that away from them? As their 'parront' we justify keeping them and giving them wonderful homes, but I feel that we need to take the responsibility of letting them do what comes natural. We can talk about their safety all we want, but again I feel it is our responsibility to to take the meassures needed to allow for safe flying. I dont have mirrors they can mistake for another room and fly into. The ceiling fan is turned off. Everyone knows they are out of the cage, so they dont open windows or doors.

Again, I do understand we are trying to keep our birds safe, but is more for our sake or theirs?

 

[noblemacaw]

I will do what ever it takes to keep Valentino safe. This is why I taught him to fly down to me from the second story level of my home. This was a skill he had to learn because it was apparent the first time he could not do it. I also work heavy with recall training with him becasue I want him to come to me when called on a consistent basis.

When I take him outside he will also be harness trained. I use the aviator harness so that he can fly while in it. Granted he will not be able to fly huge distances like a free flighted parrot but I am too chicken to free fly him. Harness flying will help him get the exercise he needs, get him outside during good weather and if heaven forbid he escapes I can recall him back to me from heights way above me.

I will never clip Valentino's wings. The RFM is such a flight orientated parrot I could never take away his flight. I have adapted my home for him to fly in. He gets plenty of exercise flying inside my home on both levels and I really enjoy watching my macaw fly around my home. Keeping my baby flighted also helped him have high confidence in himself and he is not a fearful parrot. Valentino is very accepting of new situations and environments. I want to keep him social and confident as he grows older.

I am sure when he gets sexually mature that confidence will present all sorts of new challenges however I will never clip his wings to take away the cockiness and boldness.