Wing clipping questions....
- Thread starter TonyCagg
- Start date
My birdies are not clipped.
From Tinkerbell
To Yingshiong, a White rumped Shama
A shama is a songbird. He was caught from the wild at about 3 years old. He was given into my charge at about 5 years old. He flew to me on cue within a month of coming to me. Breeders of shamas told me even their breed shamas , some they hand raised, never ever landed on them. They told me above was the first ever they seen of a male shama landing on a human.
To Riamfada
And Libai. a greater greenleaf bird
Clipping to keep a bird from flying away carry its own risks. Clipping alone will not do that. Riamfada was clipped, and assymmertrically clipped on that. She flew away, was rescued by a lady, and given into my care.
Do consider allowing the gift of flight to your birdie.
Why not go into the webpage in my signature to have a glimpse into living with flighted birds.
And go into Part 2 Tinkerbell Legacy that sets out the steps that you need to take to live with a flighted bird.
Perhaps you might find that to be possible.
From Tinkerbell
To Yingshiong, a White rumped Shama
A shama is a songbird. He was caught from the wild at about 3 years old. He was given into my charge at about 5 years old. He flew to me on cue within a month of coming to me. Breeders of shamas told me even their breed shamas , some they hand raised, never ever landed on them. They told me above was the first ever they seen of a male shama landing on a human.
To Riamfada
And Libai. a greater greenleaf bird
Clipping to keep a bird from flying away carry its own risks. Clipping alone will not do that. Riamfada was clipped, and assymmertrically clipped on that. She flew away, was rescued by a lady, and given into my care.
Do consider allowing the gift of flight to your birdie.
Why not go into the webpage in my signature to have a glimpse into living with flighted birds.
And go into Part 2 Tinkerbell Legacy that sets out the steps that you need to take to live with a flighted bird.
Perhaps you might find that to be possible.
Nimwey
New member
- Jul 27, 2011
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- Eight year old female Meyers Parrot and three year old male Scarlet Macaw.
My birds are not clipped - birds are made to fly, not sit still where we put them.
I had an Eleonora Cockatoo (who I gave away to a man who owns a zoo, together with my other Sulphur-crested), and he enjoyed flying so much I can't tell you. That's part of the reason why I don't have him anymore, he was extremely needy and active and to fly in a big living room a while every day was just not enough for him.
If you want to have a bird, put the bird in front of your own comforts, and let them be birds. They have wings for a reason.
I had an Eleonora Cockatoo (who I gave away to a man who owns a zoo, together with my other Sulphur-crested), and he enjoyed flying so much I can't tell you. That's part of the reason why I don't have him anymore, he was extremely needy and active and to fly in a big living room a while every day was just not enough for him.
If you want to have a bird, put the bird in front of your own comforts, and let them be birds. They have wings for a reason.
OP
TonyCagg
New member
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #24
I adopted Nic and his wings are clipped, although he looks to be about 1/3 way through having them grow back in.
Even with his semi-clipped wings, he has flown from atop his playpen cage and landed on my shoulder twice...it was quiet surprising.
My wife and I have spoken and we agree that we hope to have him fully flighted eventually, it will take time for his feathers to grow back in.
He has been with us for a week and a half, but already comes to me when I call him (I realize this is in the confines of our home, but certainly a wonderful start for so short a time with us).
I have an aviator harness and will begin training him to accept it as soon as I feel our relationship is ready for that.
I will certainly keep everyone updated as things progress with him.
[/IMG]
Even with his semi-clipped wings, he has flown from atop his playpen cage and landed on my shoulder twice...it was quiet surprising.
My wife and I have spoken and we agree that we hope to have him fully flighted eventually, it will take time for his feathers to grow back in.
He has been with us for a week and a half, but already comes to me when I call him (I realize this is in the confines of our home, but certainly a wonderful start for so short a time with us).
I have an aviator harness and will begin training him to accept it as soon as I feel our relationship is ready for that.
I will certainly keep everyone updated as things progress with him.
MikeyTN
New member
- Feb 1, 2011
- 13,296
- 17
- Parrots
-
"Willie"&"Lola"B&G Macaw,
"Dixie"LSC2, and "Nico" Scarlet Macaw.
About the shama, beautiful bird!!! Wild birds can learn to fly to you. I handrear a baby robin that loves to sit on your shoulder while your rocking in the rocking chair, it puts him to sleep. He would fly right on your shoulders!!!
birdmama61
New member
- Apr 13, 2011
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OMG MIkey that is awesome !!! good for you for adding to the wild flock as well .
For Mikey who loves shama,
Here is more of Yingshiong.
He is a white rumped shama (Copsychus malabaricus)
Yingshiong is a very good songbird and mimic of sounds.
See this for recordings
shamasong2
But back to the subject of clipping wings.
In recent surveys, it seemed that more than half of folks are now keeping their birdies flighted.
Strangely enough, in birdie911 on escapee birdies, the vast bulk of birdie escapees had been clipped.
With the urgings by folks to clip wings to prevent escapees, why then most of escapees had wings clipped? Surely it should be the other way round.
Far too many people believed clipping solved their problems when in fact, data showed otherwise. I guess when they clipped, they thought their problems were solved and they totally lowered their guard , and then their birdie flew away.
One particular case in point is how I got Riamfada, my CAG of the Sultanate of Oman.
She was clipped by her former owner, and asymmetrically clipped just on one wing thinking that would prevent her from flying away. That former owner obviously never read my warnings. Riam flew away and landed in a garden.
Riamfada was then found by a lady who knew of me and Tinkerbell. She decided I was a far better care giver than that former owner. And thats how Riam came to me.
Another so called reason for clipping is for better bonding.
Riam was an old bird, maybe 5-6 years old. She was caught from the wild as could be seen in the open ring on her leg. She came to me bitey and fearful.
With love and understanding, she stood on me within the next day, and flew to me on recall cues by the second day as documented clearly in my livejournal entries made in real time.
You seen the Yingshiong and LiBai who were not even hookbills and caught from wild and fully flighted. Less than a month for them to fly to me on recalls.
All my birdies, from Tinkerbell to Yingshiong to Riamfada and LiBai, responded to my cues with split second timing.
All because I treated all of them with the dignity, respect and consideration due to fellow sentients of equal standing.
So those that urge clipping of wings to bond better with them might not known of that even more effective and better faster way.
In closing, allow me to reproduce here a letter I wrote long time ago in 2007 on clipping of wings. I think that letter is still valid even now years later.
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
[quote from Dave]
Proper wing clipping will allow a bird horozontal movement and the ability to glide downward to a floor. The ideal wing clip is one that allows a bird to fly about 8 ft before gliding down. [/quote]
Hi Dave,
In an ideal world, what you say above may be right.
The other extreme will be extremely severe clipping of wings. When I was in Riyadh and in a parrot shop, this grey jumped off the top of cage about 5 feet from ground. The sound of him hitting down, the spray of blood around him, and the screaming of that poor guy hurt me crazy. I do not wish ever to have another keel bone broken even if not in front of me.
People clipped for a few key reasons.
1. They had been conditioned to that because of what they read or were told. This seemed to be peculiarly American. Tinkerbell wings were so nearly clipped by me at the beginning as the books I read all recommended that (all American books) as well as forums in 2002 when I first had Tinkerbell. I was lucky enough to bought a British parrot mag to give me second thoughts.
2. The sight of initial flights, the crashing into walls was extremely frightening and I thought my precious Tink was crazy in trying to fly through walls while I stumbled about chasing her with a pillow to cushion her falls after hitting the wall. Once again, I so nearly reached for that scissors and Tink the flying grey of Taiwan so nearly did not exist. But that british mag persuaded me to let that continue for a few more days.
She then found her flying skills to turn, slow, hover and stopped banging into walls.
Folks, this episode is inevitable. Your birds may be natural fliers, but even so, they MUST develope their muscles , flying skills and sense of balance. But at this early stage, their speed will be very slow(even if it appeared fast to you) and chances of harm to them will be there, but less.
You can minimise this by letting them fledge in a small room, with curtains or rope nets around the walls for them to fly to and cling too. Or you can run around like me with a cushion.
If you see a human toddler trying to walk and falling down, will you have fear for his/her safety and not ever let him discover balance and walk? Will you have him/her crawl for the rest of their life because you are afraid to see them fall?
This is same as your choice for your bird.
3 By clipping wings and thinking thus the clipped bird will never fly away. I need not repeat my earlier postings of clipped birds that flown away.
In what Dave said , that is true in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we live in the real world.
But most people then went on to extrapolate that then, their bird will never be able to fly away. That is where I draw that line.
So after you got that 'perfect clip' and your parrot then fly about 8 feet and not gaining height. But again, have that clip been tested under worse case condition? Such as a sudden blast of air horn , or a strange hat thrust in front to see if that parrot cannot gain height in a spook situation?
Can you bear to do a sudden spook, or allow others to do that to your parrot? To see if that clipped wings hold good in spook conditions? And with Murphy at your elbows, how about throwing in that gust of wind at the same time?
Can you ever guarantee such conditions will never ever occur to you?
People had thought so. Their parrot paid heavier price than they did.
Your choice again to see if you can beat those odds.
Here is more of Yingshiong.
He is a white rumped shama (Copsychus malabaricus)
Yingshiong is a very good songbird and mimic of sounds.
See this for recordings
shamasong2
But back to the subject of clipping wings.
In recent surveys, it seemed that more than half of folks are now keeping their birdies flighted.
Strangely enough, in birdie911 on escapee birdies, the vast bulk of birdie escapees had been clipped.
With the urgings by folks to clip wings to prevent escapees, why then most of escapees had wings clipped? Surely it should be the other way round.
Far too many people believed clipping solved their problems when in fact, data showed otherwise. I guess when they clipped, they thought their problems were solved and they totally lowered their guard , and then their birdie flew away.
One particular case in point is how I got Riamfada, my CAG of the Sultanate of Oman.
She was clipped by her former owner, and asymmetrically clipped just on one wing thinking that would prevent her from flying away. That former owner obviously never read my warnings. Riam flew away and landed in a garden.
Riamfada was then found by a lady who knew of me and Tinkerbell. She decided I was a far better care giver than that former owner. And thats how Riam came to me.
Another so called reason for clipping is for better bonding.
Riam was an old bird, maybe 5-6 years old. She was caught from the wild as could be seen in the open ring on her leg. She came to me bitey and fearful.
With love and understanding, she stood on me within the next day, and flew to me on recall cues by the second day as documented clearly in my livejournal entries made in real time.
You seen the Yingshiong and LiBai who were not even hookbills and caught from wild and fully flighted. Less than a month for them to fly to me on recalls.
All my birdies, from Tinkerbell to Yingshiong to Riamfada and LiBai, responded to my cues with split second timing.
All because I treated all of them with the dignity, respect and consideration due to fellow sentients of equal standing.
So those that urge clipping of wings to bond better with them might not known of that even more effective and better faster way.
In closing, allow me to reproduce here a letter I wrote long time ago in 2007 on clipping of wings. I think that letter is still valid even now years later.
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
[quote from Dave]
Proper wing clipping will allow a bird horozontal movement and the ability to glide downward to a floor. The ideal wing clip is one that allows a bird to fly about 8 ft before gliding down. [/quote]
Hi Dave,
In an ideal world, what you say above may be right.
The other extreme will be extremely severe clipping of wings. When I was in Riyadh and in a parrot shop, this grey jumped off the top of cage about 5 feet from ground. The sound of him hitting down, the spray of blood around him, and the screaming of that poor guy hurt me crazy. I do not wish ever to have another keel bone broken even if not in front of me.
People clipped for a few key reasons.
1. They had been conditioned to that because of what they read or were told. This seemed to be peculiarly American. Tinkerbell wings were so nearly clipped by me at the beginning as the books I read all recommended that (all American books) as well as forums in 2002 when I first had Tinkerbell. I was lucky enough to bought a British parrot mag to give me second thoughts.
2. The sight of initial flights, the crashing into walls was extremely frightening and I thought my precious Tink was crazy in trying to fly through walls while I stumbled about chasing her with a pillow to cushion her falls after hitting the wall. Once again, I so nearly reached for that scissors and Tink the flying grey of Taiwan so nearly did not exist. But that british mag persuaded me to let that continue for a few more days.
She then found her flying skills to turn, slow, hover and stopped banging into walls.
Folks, this episode is inevitable. Your birds may be natural fliers, but even so, they MUST develope their muscles , flying skills and sense of balance. But at this early stage, their speed will be very slow(even if it appeared fast to you) and chances of harm to them will be there, but less.
You can minimise this by letting them fledge in a small room, with curtains or rope nets around the walls for them to fly to and cling too. Or you can run around like me with a cushion.
If you see a human toddler trying to walk and falling down, will you have fear for his/her safety and not ever let him discover balance and walk? Will you have him/her crawl for the rest of their life because you are afraid to see them fall?
This is same as your choice for your bird.
3 By clipping wings and thinking thus the clipped bird will never fly away. I need not repeat my earlier postings of clipped birds that flown away.
In what Dave said , that is true in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we live in the real world.
But most people then went on to extrapolate that then, their bird will never be able to fly away. That is where I draw that line.
So after you got that 'perfect clip' and your parrot then fly about 8 feet and not gaining height. But again, have that clip been tested under worse case condition? Such as a sudden blast of air horn , or a strange hat thrust in front to see if that parrot cannot gain height in a spook situation?
Can you bear to do a sudden spook, or allow others to do that to your parrot? To see if that clipped wings hold good in spook conditions? And with Murphy at your elbows, how about throwing in that gust of wind at the same time?
Can you ever guarantee such conditions will never ever occur to you?
People had thought so. Their parrot paid heavier price than they did.
Your choice again to see if you can beat those odds.
MikeyTN
New member
- Feb 1, 2011
- 13,296
- 17
- Parrots
-
"Willie"&"Lola"B&G Macaw,
"Dixie"LSC2, and "Nico" Scarlet Macaw.
I loved your stories about Yingshiong! Thank you for sharing that with us!!!!
Flugmeister
New member
- Oct 7, 2011
- 1
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My Parrotlet Copi must have his wings clipped. He is small and fast.
When I originally brought him home, I realized this and clipped his wings myself.
Foolishly, I took him to an avian vet, the "best" in my area, after his wings grew out. The visit was to have his beak clipped. Copi has a malformed beak from poor feeding technique when he was a chick. I have since kept his beak trimmed myself.
Anyway, the vet clipped his wing feathers basically down to the wing itself. I was shocked! Now, almost a year later, his one wing is completely grown back, but a large section of his other wing still has a large open notch.
What I would like to know is--did the vet permanantly clip him? Will he eventually grow those feathers back? There was no blood.
When I originally brought him home, I realized this and clipped his wings myself.
Foolishly, I took him to an avian vet, the "best" in my area, after his wings grew out. The visit was to have his beak clipped. Copi has a malformed beak from poor feeding technique when he was a chick. I have since kept his beak trimmed myself.
Anyway, the vet clipped his wing feathers basically down to the wing itself. I was shocked! Now, almost a year later, his one wing is completely grown back, but a large section of his other wing still has a large open notch.
What I would like to know is--did the vet permanantly clip him? Will he eventually grow those feathers back? There was no blood.
IcyWolf
New member
- Jul 5, 2011
- 1,542
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- ~Alexandrine Parakeet~2 Red Lored Amazons~Blue Fronted Amazon~Black capped conure~4 Green Cheeks~4 Parrotlets~2 lineolated parakeets~9 American budgies~9 English budgies~ And lots of babies :)
Flugmeister, could you post a picture of his wing that hasn't had the feathers grow back yet? Did he only clip the primary feathers or did he take off the secondaries too? I hope you don't go to that vet any longer, or at least explain to him that that is not the proper way to trim a birds flight feathers.
lene1949
New member
- Sep 26, 2011
- 1,701
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Cory: Short billed Corella -
Echo: Galah -
Max: Alexandrine -
Skye: Yellow Sided conure -
Luka: Green Cheek Conure -
RIP Shrek: Quaker
I have considered trimming Max's wings, but Shanlong's post gave me hope... He's crashing into wall, curtains etc, but some years ago I vowed never to clip a bird's wings again.
Cory, my Corella, was clipped, and therefore I was very confident with him. I often took him outside on my shoulder, and nothing ever happened until one day, the wind took him, and he flew away.. I saw him high up in the sky... I was frantic.. I posted on all the websites I knew of, including the RSPCA. I got many calls, and drove far and wide to see birds, which were not Cory. Then one day a week later, I got a call from the RSPCA, that someone had seen a large white bird in the paddock behind them. Only 200 metres from home, I went immediately to have a look, and that was my Cory.
He was in good health, although he was very thin.... He could so easily have been victim to a cat, dog or whatever, and that's when I decided, that if any of my birds were going to escape, they'll at least have to be able to fly!
This is why my emotions at the moment are so torn, because I don't want Max to get hurt or trapped somewhere, where I can't get him.
Cory, my Corella, was clipped, and therefore I was very confident with him. I often took him outside on my shoulder, and nothing ever happened until one day, the wind took him, and he flew away.. I saw him high up in the sky... I was frantic.. I posted on all the websites I knew of, including the RSPCA. I got many calls, and drove far and wide to see birds, which were not Cory. Then one day a week later, I got a call from the RSPCA, that someone had seen a large white bird in the paddock behind them. Only 200 metres from home, I went immediately to have a look, and that was my Cory.
He was in good health, although he was very thin.... He could so easily have been victim to a cat, dog or whatever, and that's when I decided, that if any of my birds were going to escape, they'll at least have to be able to fly!
This is why my emotions at the moment are so torn, because I don't want Max to get hurt or trapped somewhere, where I can't get him.
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