Wings clipped or no?

[StChelle]

Good topic and is a decision I am struggling with. All three of mine (I adopted Petra) are babies and were clipped prior to coming home. I believe all three should eventually be flighted and trained for health. But, I'm glad all three are clipped right now. My home is not one that allows all three free range because of one of my dogs. All three are closely supervised and can only be out of cage indoors when they are in the bird room or my dog is locked up. My bigger concern is that none are trained to come to me on command. I will try my best to train for this and it is my intent to keep them clipped until I am confident that they will come to me. I think my galah will, and Harley is food motivated enough and bonding to me where I think he will, but Petra likely won't. Anyway I am working on step up and come while they are out of the cage in the aviary or in the bird room. I guess my question is is this enough or would it be best to let them fully fledge and take it from there? I have not had them clipped since they came home and am debating if I should or should not before I have training firmly in place.

 

[Anansi]

I don't find it necessary to clip in order to train a bird in recall. My method was simply to take my bird into a smaller room that could be closed off from the rest of the house and do the training in there. I used 2 adjustable height training perches that allowed me to increase difficulty as his skill level improved. (I didn't need to do this step with Jolly, as he was already fully fledged when he came to my home, but it is what I did with Bixby and Maya. Unfortunately, Maya had been clipped before i got her and has never become comfortable with the idea of flight.)

The smaller room kept Bixby from building up to full speed and crashing into the walls as he worked on his flying skills. By the time I allowed him to fly outside of that room, he was a rather skilled flier and fully recall trained.

In your case, clipped or no, just make sure you continue to keep your birds and the dogs segregated.

 

[clark_conure]

In my opinion there is a middle ground. I fine stream my conure so he can gain altitude for about a foot then has to glide down. So if he feels in danger he can jump up and get a few feet away, but he can't technically fly. SOmetimes he sees something and he's like oh shi- and jumps off but then he circles around and come back. I find this acceptable.

Also I encourage him to exercise his wings, I know it's important, so I just put him on a shelf and lay down close. It forces him to use his muscles and it also gives me a metric to see if he needs an 1/8 of an inch trimmed.

I won't let his wings get to long because...not for nothing, even with a harness a fully flighted bird, if you aren't hanging on, can take off. Golden eagles pick up goats and toss them off mountains....which is awesome, (birds rule)....but I go for the middle ground, he can jump and escape catastrophe, but he can't go far.

 

[Anansi]

...I won't let his wings get to long because...not for nothing, even with a harness a fully flighted bird, if you aren't hanging on, can take off. Golden eagles pick up goats and toss them off mountains....which is awesome, (birds rule)....but I go for the middle ground, he can jump and escape catastrophe, but he can't go far.

Actually, a clipped bird can indeed go far. Several members of this forum have lost their clipped birds in this very manner. All it takes is the right breeze and they're gone, so please don't rely on a wing clip in lieu of a harness.

 

[clark_conure]

Actually, a clipped bird can indeed go far. Several members of this forum have lost their clipped birds in this very manner. All it takes is the right breeze and they're gone, so please don't rely on a wing clip in lieu of a harness.

I've had this come up before....and I know, I lost a bird once in my teens. Broke my heart. But where I'm at now it's almost inconceivable, my house is the highest point for miles and I have a lot of land and it's all grass and no predators.

I DO UNDERSTAND for for most people yes, they should factor this in. So I don't mind the reminder.

 

[greytness]

I vote 'no' to clipping. My primary reasons are that it promotes health and allows them to do what they were born to do. I believe they are happier unclipped. None of mine are clipped, and I thoroughly enjoy having them fly to me, etc.

With that being said, you have to do what's best for your world.

 

[Anita1250]

I had an Orange wing who we called Houdini. Could get out of anything! He got out of his travel cage into Brooklyn in February. He was fully flighted, and took off for the sky. Took us 5 days to find him and catch him. Lucky he survived because it was cold. Worst 5 days of my bird life. That experience wounded me badly. Rocky passed away 5 years ago at the age of 46. My other Amazon, Sam is now 34 and I will NEVER allow his wings to grow fully. I know about all of the arguments against clipping. I just cannot allow my precious birdie to get away from me.

 

[LordTriggs]

I had an Orange wing who we called Houdini. Could get out of anything! He got out of his travel cage into Brooklyn in February. He was fully flighted, and took off for the sky. Took us 5 days to find him and catch him. Lucky he survived because it was cold. Worst 5 days of my bird life. That experience wounded me badly. Rocky passed away 5 years ago at the age of 46. My other Amazon, Sam is now 34 and I will NEVER allow his wings to grow fully. I know about all of the arguments against clipping. I just cannot allow my precious birdie to get away from me.

You are aware a bird can still fly when clipped? And in that situation of getting out of the cage and flying off probably wouldn't survive those 5 days

It's lucky you got Rocky back but the same situation played out clipped or not they would have flown off. I'll just reiterate (until my dying breath) clipping should only ever be done for safety, not to stop them flying off, changing behavior or whatever reason

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

I agree with LordTriggs. Clipped birds can and do fly away when there's enough wind. Don't ever rely on a clip to take your bird outside, they will get spooked and fly away just the same. Not that I ever agree with clipping, though, unless the bird has never fledged and is a bad flier.

 

[greytness]

Two days ago I brought in an 18 month old male Scarlet who was clipped before he'd ever fledged. It is my goal to allow his butchered flight feathers to grow back out and to teach him what wings are for.

For now I'm figuring out what actions stimulate him to flap his wings. That way his breast muscles will be exercised while I wait until his next molt. So far spritzing him with a water bottle makes him flap his wings a lot.

It makes me sad that he must sit on a perch and wait for me to come get him. This experience is very new to me and I can see his frustration.

 

[KevH]

Bird clipping is an outdated process should be banned if you don't want your parrot to fly don't get a bird its cruel they were given wings for a reason there's absolutely no benefit for the bird only for the people who have them the world has woken up to clipping its time Americans did aswell not trying to offend anyone but it needs to stop.

 

[LordTriggs]

Clipping itself should not be banned

there are instances where clipping is the correct course of action but I can only tell of 2 situations. 1. The bird struggles flying and crashes often. 2. the bird constantly launches themselves at humans to attack viciously.

For 1, though we don't think of it some birds struggle with flight in the wild we just don't see them because Darwinism takes hold and they become a meal for a predator. In our homes these birds are unstable in flight and they hit something as I'm sure some of us have experienced causing serious injury or death

2. Some birds are temperamental for a multitude of reasons and can become disposed to attack rather than flee, in this situation you need to think of your safety, having say a Hycanith macaw with a chip on their shoulder propel themselves to attack a human is not going to end well for either party. though I will say that in that situation a clip must be done with extensive training with the clip purely being used to stop them flying at a person. Once trained the wings should be allowed back

 

[clark_conure]

Also take into account loving bird owners that might be short, or partially disabled and wouldn't be able to retrieve a bird on a curtain rod, or chase after it even in their house.

Or a house that has a lot of open doors. Or the fact that most accidents, and losses happen to flighted birds.

I think everyone can make the best decision for themselves, and make the pragmatic choice. To think you know better than the owner that loves the bird is very self-centered, and shows ignorance to understanding another person's situation with their bird.

It's a personal decision that each owner can make for themselves.

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

I do know for a fact that wing clipping is banned in some European countries but I agree with LordTriggs. I get it when you do it for your own safety, but then you should allow the wings to grow back. Birds that have never fledged may crash into things when their flights grow in, but then it's the owner's/breeder's/whoever clipped the bird's fault.

 

[KevH]

For the two reasons you gave there's an answer it's training the bird usually birds that spook or fly into things are new to the home I've raised 2 parent reared really wild amazons it's letting them settle gaining trust in the cage once they know this big giant ain't gona hurt them they settle down same for bird that attacks its attacking for a reason you don't clip the wings to learn it you build trust there can be a number of reasons why it's attacking you find out why again build the trust in the cage as sailboat says it's never the birds fault it's the human don't punish the bird coz of human errors.

 

[LordTriggs]

For the two reasons you gave there's an answer it's training the bird usually birds that spook or fly into things are new to the home I've raised 2 parent reared really wild amazons it's letting them settle gaining trust in the cage once they know this big giant ain't gona hurt them they settle down same for bird that attacks its attacking for a reason you don't clip the wings to learn it you build trust there can be a number of reasons why it's attacking you find out why again build the trust in the cage as sailboat says it's never the birds fault it's the human don't punish the bird coz of human errors.

answer to number 1. I had a bird who had fledged, he was actually settling in okay albeit slowly, he struggled to fly, turn and land even in the aviary. He set off one morning and broke his neck against a wall. If he were lightly clipped then he would still be around

number 2. How do you train a bird that is currently dive-bombing you? Picture trying to teach a child maths whilst they're running around, it's impossible. If you had read through I said they should be allowed to fledge but they need the training whilst unfledged because it's physically impossible to train a bird whilst it's ripping your flesh out.

also just to add a clip is not punishment IMO, there are many people here with clipped birds and I think to pass judgement as you are on clippers is extremely rude to them. Situation pertains what you feel is right for them. Are you seriously telling me you would not clip a bird who crashed every time they flew despite having fledged and had flight feathers for years? Like I say, poor flyers do exist in the wild and nature removes those ones

 

[CKP]

We got our BFA a little over a year ago. He was allowed to fledge, then was clipped before he came home to us. With his molt, all of his feathers have now grown back in. I was loving it. We were working on flight training and he was doing great. He occasionally flew to the ceiling fan, but I could quickly retrieve him and continue with positive reinforcement of flying to me instead. Until....

We got home from vacation this weekend and picked him up from where we board him yesterday morning. He LOVED his birdie vacation (they get "outside time" daily in the outdoor aviary... project now ongoing for our home lol). Instead of punishing us for leaving him he was all flirty and loving and sweet. When we are home he gets free reign, usually hanging out on the perches on and around his cage.

This morning, I was making my wife tea on her way out of the house for work. I was walking around in the kitchen and Mav took off. He flew to the hanging light and climbed ALL THE WAY to the top (about 16 feet from the ground). I grabbed a chair and got his dowel post, but it was a far reach and he couldn't get a good grip. Instead he flew to the ceiling fan, then back to the chain. Then he realized... there's fun wire braided through the chain up here!! I PANICKED. I ran to the garage and grabbed the ladder and got the you-know-what bitten out of my finger cause he was scared too.

After we finally got him down and everything calmed down we had a talk. We are going to have him clipped again. The danger of him getting hurt for us does not warrant having him flighted. Our ceilings are too high for us to reach him, and I have NO IDEA what we would do if he realized he could latch on to our safety sprinklers on the ceiling (20 feet from the ground). We also have a large sliding glass door that is currently covered for his safety, but if it were ever open and he flew into it....it would break my heart to know that OUR home and WE were the cause of his injury or worse.

Long-winded as that may have been... my point is that we didn't make the decision lightly. I was avidly against clipping him again, my wife was more for "i want to use our ceiling fans again" and "you get him down, you're taller". But for his safety I've agreed. Soooooo CAV here we come!

 

[LordTriggs]

Sounds like a wise decision CKP, let's be fair that level of stress coming from you wouldn't be able to continue in the long run and something would give eventually.

I was lucky m conure preferred to hang out on my clothes airer, the railing on the upstairs balcony overlooking the living room and of course me rather than lights and such so I was never worried. But if he did hang out on the lights I would be worried about chewing the cords

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

I would not get a bird if I had to clip its wings. One of the reasons I love birds is their ability to fly, and I could never take that away from them. If my home was so dangerous I would just get a dog instead. I can't imagine why so many of you have dangerous homes and can't responsibly keep your bird flighted. Like I said before, wing clipping is illegal in some European countries. They obviously don't have a problem with keeping their birds safe. Like LordTriggs said, wing clipping should only be done in special circumstances, such as birds attacking or bad fliers.

 

[Laylatoo]

I know it’s a touchy subject. Both of mine are clipped and I don’t apologize for the decision. They came to me clipped and I’ll keep them clipped. It’s a personal decision.