Aluminum: Toxic or Not?

[Chikoo]

So I just bought a 10x10x6 "dog kennel" from Costco which will function as an aviary for two ekkies. The kennel is powder coated and everything. It has a cloth roof that isn't really ekkie-proof yet. They could find their way out. But primarily, I don't like this blackened ceiling above them. I feel like it would be nicer if they could see the sky above them and so forth.

So I'm considering replacing the roof with a corrugated style roof (which is plastic). This won't let rain through, which is a disadvantage, but they need shade too.

Part of the consideration involves adding more wiring. Of course, I can't use galvanized wire because of zinc toxicity. But what about aluminum? Is that just as toxic?

 

[moni.k]

Aluminum isn't toxic to birds. The only aluminum product that should be watched for is aluminum foil as it contains tin (toxic to birds). Aside from that, it's all good. King's Cages offers aluminum cages and travel carriers (what they're most famous for). Can't wait to see pictures of the aviary!! I'm terrible at handiwork, but I would love to get updates on how the roof construction works out. I am really considering a dog kennel, but I don't want to start a project I can't finish...

 

[Chikoo]

The handiwork is not my own but hired labor from a friend! I'm just the mind behind it. Haha!

 

[moni.k]

I tried an attempt to drill a hole with a dremel and broke it... after that my dad banned me from all tools. Haha, I have terrible hand eye coordination. Wish I had a friend who would be able to build me an aviary. BTW how much was the dog kennel? is it from precision?

 

[nicki]

As one considering drilling holes with a dremel, what bit did you use? Why not a drill?

 

[moni.k]

I think it was one of those fine tip sanding attachment... I have no idea why I thought a sanding tip would drill a hole. I figured it was wood and the tip was pointy enough that it would work... I also broke a drill trying to make a make-shift desktop air conditioner. Yea, let's just say I'm not to brightest when it comes to tools. :54:

 

[weco]

Moni.k, I was wondering where you got information that aluminum foil had tin in it? Back in the late 1800s & early 1900s there were both tin foils and lead foils used in food stuffs, with tin foil being prominent as wrappers in cigarette packages, but in 1910, a Swiss company came out with aluminum foil as a cheaper solution…..and as the saying goes, the rest is history…..

The terminology ‘tin foil’ is still used interchangeably in many parts of the U.S. and the world, but it’s been quite a long time since it was ever used with that metal…..many of us still refer to metal food stuff containers as tin-cans, when those cans were actually steel cans with tin coatings on the inside to prevent cans rusting from the inside out…today those cans are plastic coated on the inside…..

Back in 2008, after non-stick aluminum foil showed up on the market, there was concern that Teflon was used to make it non-stick...

Here’s a reply from Reynolds about the potential toxicity of their product, questioned by a ‘too owner back in 2008:

Dear Nancy:
Thank you for your inquiry regarding Reynolds Wrap® Non-Stick Aluminum Foil.
Reynolds Wrap® Release® Non-Stick Aluminum Foil is 98.5% aluminum. The balance is primarily iron and silicon. These are added to give the strength and puncture resistance obtained only in the alloy used in Reynolds household foil. Reynolds Wrap Release Non-Stick Aluminum Foil contains no recycled material and complies with U.S. Food and Drug Administration requirements for direct contact with food.
The coating on the Release Non-Stick Foil is a food-safe coating. Release Foil does not contain Teflon®, PTFE, or any material related to Teflon. We know of no hazards to birds or other animals that would occur during normal or even extreme heating of Release Foil.
Please let us know if we can be of future assistance.

Jim, Reynolds Consumer Response
ContactUs@reynoldskitchens.com

 

[sodakat]

Why not use GAW wire to cover the top? I doubt the will hang from it by their beaks.

 

[moni.k]

Moni.k, I was wondering where you got information that aluminum foil had tin in it? Back in the late 1800s & early 1900s there were both tin foils and lead foils used in food stuffs, with tin foil being prominent as wrappers in cigarette packages, but in 1910, a Swiss company came out with aluminum foil as a cheaper solution…..and as the saying goes, the rest is history…..

The terminology ‘tin foil’ is still used interchangeably in many parts of the U.S. and the world, but it’s been quite a long time since it was ever used with that metal…..many of us still refer to metal food stuff containers as tin-cans, when those cans were actually steel cans with tin coatings on the inside to prevent cans rusting from the inside out…today those cans are plastic coated on the inside…..

Back in 2008, after non-stick aluminum foil showed up on the market, there was concern that Teflon was used to make it non-stick...

Here’s a reply from Reynolds about the potential toxicity of their product, questioned by a ‘too owner back in 2008:

Dear Nancy:
Thank you for your inquiry regarding Reynolds Wrap® Non-Stick Aluminum Foil.
Reynolds Wrap® Release® Non-Stick Aluminum Foil is 98.5% aluminum. The balance is primarily iron and silicon. These are added to give the strength and puncture resistance obtained only in the alloy used in Reynolds household foil. Reynolds Wrap Release Non-Stick Aluminum Foil contains no recycled material and complies with U.S. Food and Drug Administration requirements for direct contact with food.
The coating on the Release Non-Stick Foil is a food-safe coating. Release Foil does not contain Teflon®, PTFE, or any material related to Teflon. We know of no hazards to birds or other animals that would occur during normal or even extreme heating of Release Foil.
Please let us know if we can be of future assistance.

Jim, Reynolds Consumer Response
ContactUs@reynoldskitchens.com

wow, I had no clue! haha, I learn something new every day. To be honest I google searched harmful toxins to birds and under tin, it stated that aluminum foil can have tin. I never thought to look up whether today's aluminum foil still contained tin. Thanks for the new info, I'm probably gonna end up reading my aluminum foil label today now.

http://www.thebirdclinic.com/UploadedFiles/BirdClinicHandout4.pdf

 

[Chikoo]

Why not use GAW wire to cover the top? I doubt the will hang from it by their beaks.

So is GAW wire different from galvanized wire? It is just galvanized after weld, so it prevents rust. But still could lead to zinc toxicity?

I also doubt that they will hang from the top with their beaks. But maybe aluminum is the safer option?

The other issue with wire is that it will leave the top exposed to direct sun, so no shade for the birds. They will just cook out there. So that's why I am thinking of doing half the roof in plastic and the other half in wire.

What do you guys think? Good idea? Bad idea? I regret having to do half of it plastic because then they can't get rained on. But I also don't want them just baking under the sun.

The dog kennel was $460, moni.k.

 

[weco]

Why not use GAW wire to cover the top? I doubt the will hang from it by their beaks.

So is GAW wire different from galvanized wire? It is just galvanized after weld, so it prevents rust. But still could lead to zinc toxicity?

GAW stands for galvanized after welding and is a marketing term used to refer to hot-dipped galvanizing processes, while GBW stands for galvanizing before welding and refers to electroplating galvanizing processes.....GAW wire/fencing is usually dull in appearance and may be rough to the feel, while GBW wire/fencing is normally shiny and smooth to the touch.....

You may want to investigate the different corrugated plastics available...they don't all have the same longevity properties...some will disintegrate before others.....if the product information tells you that it is good for 20 years, somewhere between 12 and 15 years is more realistic.....

 

[Chikoo]

Thanks for the info, Weco. I will definitely look into longevity re corrugated plastic.

And thanks for explaining about galvanized wire. In any case, it is still toxic to birds, right? But it still may be ok for the ceiling?

 

[weco]

The zinc in the galvanizing is the toxic part & while both forms of galvanizing has zinc in it, my choice would be the electroplated version rather than the hot-dipped.....

If you feel and/or look closely at the two versions, you will find the hot-dipped to be thicker & have drips, often at joints/corners, that can be broken off, sometimes with just your fingers, and is often ingested by the birds.....with electrolysis, the solution is attracted to the wire/fencing with an electric current, forming a more uniform coating, with less drips.....

If you're thinking of using electric screen wire, that is easily cut through by determined beaks.....one of my sun conures likes to make her own exits in aluminum screens.....reminds me of my daughter when her mother would ground her.....she thought she was smart & got her boyfriend to bypass her window alarms until I flew into town, screwed & caulked her windows shut, where it could not be seen...her little brother threatened to tell mom if she tried to use his windows.....

 

[Chikoo]

Weco, that's interesting. So aluminum = easy to break through. I'm wondering if maybe I should forgo wire altogether and just do a 100% corrugated plastic roof. I am concerned about shade for the birds. They will be in full sun otherwise for hours at a time.

 

[sodakat]

They must have shade. The choice to sit in the sun has to be theirs. I've found they will overheat in just minutes if they can't get out of the sun.

I have an aviary. My wire is 14 gushed GAW and it is shiny with no loose pieces.

Be careful that mice and snakes cannot get in the wire on the dog run you bought.

 

[Chikoo]

Sodakat, what do you have for a roof?

Here is a picture of my aviary and some birdie pics from today...no idea why it comes out sideways.

 

[drlisaort]

Beautiful aviary Chikoo!

 

[MonicaMc]

GAW is reportedly better than GBW...

You could always look into stainless steel wiring or zoo/aviary netting as well, that way, you could leave a part of the roof open?

 

[weco]

Moni.k, I was wondering where you got information that aluminum foil had tin in it? Back in the late 1800s & early 1900s there were both tin foils and lead foils used in food stuffs, with tin foil being prominent as wrappers in cigarette packages, but in 1910, a Swiss company came out with aluminum foil as a cheaper solution…..and as the saying goes, the rest is history…..

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wow, I had no clue! haha, I learn something new every day. To be honest I google searched harmful toxins to birds and under tin, it stated that aluminum foil can have tin. I never thought to look up whether today's aluminum foil still contained tin. Thanks for the new info, I'm probably gonna end up reading my aluminum foil label today now.

Moni.K, there is actually more skewed and blatantly wrong information on the internet than there is true/correct information.....

The ease with which unverified or incorrect information can be posted is really a shame.....it is up to we pet/animal stewards to view new information with common sense and an inquiring mind...don't let one piece of information or idea be your guide in your quest for the right information.....

You may see a sentence or several sentences of information that is exactly or almost exactly the same, word for word, in 50 places on the internet, but if you research that particular idea/theory you may in fact, find that all those 50 postings of information are totally wrong.....often, to give an appearance of knowledge and expertise, people will build webpages/sites with information extrapolated from other sources without ever really knowing what they are proffering to those seeking factual information.....

When I got my first bird, an MBC, I believed what the pet shop salesperson told me about supplements, feather washes, mite/flea repellents and a raft of other junk sold for birds, but unlike many, I went looking for more information.....keep in mind that this was back when the internet was either accessed through colleges, universities, government access points or dial-up bulletin boards.....back then I was spending a lot of free time in libraries, heck, I was even sourcing books from the Library of Congress through a inter-library loan program.....

I learned a long time ago, if the data I'm reading comes from or is being supplied by a manufacturer or vendor interested in selling a product, I go looking for independent studies/research to support that manufacturer/vendor provided information and if I can't find any, I consider the information/data to be suspect and not verified.....

Enjoy your reading.....

 

[weco]

Weco, that's interesting. So aluminum = easy to break through. I'm wondering if maybe I should forgo wire altogether and just do a 100% corrugated plastic roof. I am concerned about shade for the birds. They will be in full sun otherwise for hours at a time.

There are several metal roofing products, as well as plastic roofing panels on the market.....the metal roof systems that have become popular in the last few years are galvanized based steel or an aluminum product called galvalume.....both would be both safe & durable...your birds are not going to be sitting at the corner of a galvanized panel or beneath a galvanized panel, licking the bare metal.....

If a bird has enough distractions, it most likely will not be hanging out on galvanized fencing enjoying its morning & afternoon licking sessions.....

The trouble with the plastic corrugated roofing panels available today is that they are extremely susceptible to damage/breakage from falling tree limbs...and...after a couple of years in the elements, a mis-thrown/errant softball will put a nice hole in it and/or cause the panel to crack.....