Amazons and small children ?'s

[Sarah]

Hi,
I've been trying to find info on some questions I have regarding a rehomed amazon, and haven't been able to find it.
Heres some background info, (Its quite a bit)
I had a red headed amazon named Moe for around 8 years. He was grumpy, and angry. It took 3 years of me working on him til I could scratch him on the head. We were best buddies. Fast forward a bit (I was 13 when he was given to me by my dad, he got sick of him) I was 19, and got a job working quite a ways from my parents home (where I lived), no one in my family liked him, and I was gone th entire week staying at a friend's house. He quickly became sad and depressed, I got to know a co-worker pretty well, and her daughter loves animals, so I gave him to them, in the understanding that I would get him back eventually. Well, we lost contact, and I have been sad ever since. I have done a LOT of stupid things in my life, but giving him up and not being able to find him has been my only regret.
Part 2 of back story
I am living with my boyfriend and our 2 boys, we live in a mobile home. Its by the highway, so sounds of a bird would be drowned out, we have a neighbor on one side, who is NEVER home, and when he is home, he never opens his windows...(I don't ask, figure its his choice...) We were suppose to be getting a BFA last weekend, the girl we were going to buy her from said she would hold her until we brought our sons over to see how they reacted to each other. We went alone to meet the bird, and she was healthy alert, friendly. I got an email from her the same day saying she sold it. I was completely shocked! I guess money was more important than finding a good home So, now all the sudden my boyfriend (Steve) is NOT okay with having a parrot in the house. I figured if I were able to show him people opinions on it, he may open his mind a bit. He has NEVER owned a bird, and has a fear of the unknown.

The first question I have, which is the BIG one. The make or break the deal on whether or not I can get an Amazon is...How well do they do with small children? I have an almost 3 yr old and a 7month old. Obviously, for safety reasons, the bird's home would be out of reach of little fingers, I have thought of a way to KEEP little fingers out of there, but does anyone on here have small children and also keep larger parrots? Any tips or advice?

Secondly, I have found a Lilac Crowned amazon that I am interested in. It a seven hour round trip, which I am willing to make. His/Her background isn't well know. The woman I have been talking to said she say it at the petstore, and asked about it, and the guy told her someone came in here and said "Take the bird, or I will kill it!" SO they took the bird, whose name is Buddy. He was on a peanut ONLY diet, and the woman who has him now is trying to switch him off of it. He was afraid of the toy she put in with him, and hasn't been aggressive with her when she puts in fresh food or water, he did try to get her once though, without success. He is comfortable with being wrapped in a towel, which to me would be a good sign that he can be successfully saved and turned friendly. I haven't asked her if he talks, as I'm not too concerned about that. I looked at his picture and just felt that he needs me. Does any of this information sound promising that he can learn to trust again?

3rd question~ Steve is afraid the bird would get out of its cage and destroy his computer, and stuff. Moe had free reign of my room, and never destroyed a thing, so has anyone had their amazon destroy things?

I think thats all the questions I have for now, I have no problem with getting Buddy, its my boyfriend who is more reluctant, and I thought that hearing some one's opinion (other than mine LOL) might be good for him
Thanks in advance everyone! I really appreciate it

 

[Admin]

Sarah,

First let me say welcome to the site. Hopefully someone with a bit more experience will chime in here and answer your question.

 

[TexDot33]

AHHH, I can answer this one ... all three of these question, but I really should have dinner first before I get into any thing in depth ... please give me an hour or two and I will be back to help you out! PROMISE!!

 

[Auggie's Dad]

While we wait on tex I can address one point:

"has anyone had their amazon destroy things?"

Nope, but I have a conure for whom it would be far easier to list the things he hasn't destroyed.

If you don't want it eaten don't leave it in reach of a parrot. )

 

[TexDot33]

Hi Sarah, thanks for waiting! I had to make dinner for me, and my pregnant wife (lately, when she gets hungry she gets super cranky quickly). I think that I have some info for you, I don't think it's the information that you are going to want to hear, but it is information that I think that you need to know.

First, I would want to ask why, if your boyfriend didn't want a parrot why you would want to start with something as ambitious as a rehomed amazon? I understand that you have a fondness for amazons, and you seem to have longings to have your Moe back in your life, but taking in a rehome amazon is A LOT of work (and for someone who already has a 3 year old and a 7 month old this would be a monumentous task). You had a great relationship with your Moe and you had a history with him, not all amazons are going to be like him, and not knowing the history of this new amazon I am not sure this is a great idea at all. Let me get in a little deeper.

The first question I have, which is the BIG one. The make or break the deal on whether or not I can get an Amazon is...How well do they do with small children? I have an almost 3 yr old and a 7month old. Obviously, for safety reasons, the bird's home would be out of reach of little fingers, I have thought of a way to KEEP little fingers out of there, but does anyone on here have small children and also keep larger parrots? Any tips or advice?

I am going to be straight up with you here ~ I would never, NEVER allow a 3 year old around ANY 'Zon even if I am handling the bird myself! I am going to "paint in broad strokes" here (I want everyone to understand that there are going to be exceptions to what I am going to say as each parrot has an individual personality, but generalities can be laid out for guidance) and say that, personally, I feel that 'Zons are the toughest of all the parrots to read, and I feel they are the most unpredictable to work with. And, if they feel the need to bite, they will, and they can do damage! Also, when a 'zon finally aserts its domance over someone it is really hard to take it back and be in command of the relationship.

"But what does that have to do with my three-year-old" you might ask? Remember, parrots pair bond FOR LIFE, and if you new 'zon would happen to choose you as his/her mate he/she would see all others as inferrior and would be willing to attack anyone who he/she would see as a competetor for your love and affection (not just your 3 year-old, but your 7 month-old AND your boyfriend ...) and during hormonal season I can just see this ending very, very badly for your kids, your parrot or both.

Secondly, I have found a Lilac Crowned amazon that I am interested in. It a seven hour round trip, which I am willing to make. His/Her background isn't well know. The woman I have been talking to said she say it at the petstore, and asked about it, and the guy told her someone came in here and said "Take the bird, or I will kill it!" SO they took the bird, whose name is Buddy. He was on a peanut ONLY diet, and the woman who has him now is trying to switch him off of it. He was afraid of the toy she put in with him, and hasn't been aggressive with her when she puts in fresh food or water, he did try to get her once though, without success. He is comfortable with being wrapped in a towel, which to me would be a good sign that he can be successfully saved and turned friendly. I haven't asked her if he talks, as I'm not too concerned about that. I looked at his picture and just felt that he needs me. Does any of this information sound promising that he can learn to trust again?

Ok, there are a few things that I need clarification on in this paragraph ... Why was the guy going to , "kill" the bird? Was it screaming behavior, was it biting behavior ... what was the bird doing that was driving this guy mad? I need more info on this one ...

Also, what experience do you have that would make you think that because a bird allows toweling that it will become friendly? In my experiences no bird likes to be toweled and will bite/squirm/claw (and otherwise fight for their lives) while they are being toweled ... this is not a great situation to judge the temperament of a bird.

Also, Amazons are more susceptible to liver issues than any other of the parrots. An amazon who has been on a peanut only diet (peanuts are VERY HIGH in fat) would need an instant & complete well check (with blood work for liver function) with a CERTIFIED AVIAN VET before I would even consider taking them in as a foster (can you afford the initial medical care and then, possibly, the reoccurring care that may be needed ~ as a side note, I have dealt with 2 amazons who suffered from Fatty Liver disease, and they both showed markedly lower levels of energy than other 'zons I have worked with). Aside from the fatty aspects of the peanuts, a bacteria called Asperilligis CAN (dosen't mean it does 100% of the time) reside in the peanut shell and is almost always fatal to parrots (Greys, 'Zons and Macs tend to be the most susceptable to the disease).

3rd question~ Steve is afraid the bird would get out of its cage and destroy his computer, and stuff. Moe had free reign of my room, and never destroyed a thing, so has anyone had their amazon destroy things?

Think of your parrot as a toddler with a can opener attached to its face. Is there a (good) chance that things will get destroyed, under normal situations, yes! Again, if we are talking about a hormonal amazon ~ I would bet the last dollar in my wallet that something left within reach of an amazon will be destroyed! Simple solution, keep things out of reach of the Amazon ~ but, if you think of your Amazon in terms of a toddler, you will understand that no matter how hard you try, you will always miss something that they will end up finding.

I know this isn't the information that you probably wanted to hear, but these are, in my opinion, hard facts that need to be looked at in your situation. Would I be against you getting a parrot, not at all, would I advise you against taking in this amazon, yes!

There are a lot of great smaller parrots that you could look at taking in as a new home. A smaller parrot might not be as intimidating to your boyfriend and would provide a better all around fit in your household.

I hope that I have given you a little more information to think about, please feel free to ask anything you want, or for anymore help .. we are a really friendly bunch!

~ Tex

 

[Sarah]

It was worth the wait, having been pregnant and hungry, I know how it goes LOL Hungry pregnant women are not a force to mess with hahaha


The woman was not told why the guy brought the bird to the petstore, your guess would be as good as mine. My guess, is that he didn't know what he was getting into, bird screamed all the time, and it drove hiim mad. He may have been a biter, but from what she has told me, he was only aggressive towards her once, and didn't bite, just the whole warnoing, I may bite you kinda thing. She is also afraid to touch him, as she has only kept smaller birds. I don't know if the peanuts he was being fed were human or pet grade. I asked her if she has taken him to a vet, but have not heard back yet. Will let you know when I know. I know she has been working him off the peanuts, and he is starting to branch out a bit with his diet, ideally, I would like to get him on a pelleted diet, that is, if we do end up going for it.

I know amazons tend to bond to one person, and I did some research on that, a lot of books say if you assign each person a job with him, he will be less likely to bond with just one person. Say, like my almost 3 year old can talk to him from a safe distance. My boyfriend can give him treats,talk and change around his toys. I will be the one doing the cleaning. Does that work for amazons?

I have done a TON of work into looking into this, I didn't just randomly wake up and say "Hey, I want a parrot today, I miss Moe." I've been thinking about this off and on over the last 2 or 3 years now. Been searching for him as best I can, with no luck.

You say amazons are all crazy and such... I had no idea Amazons were like that LOL I have never met a mean one, I guess I've been lucky. Never had the mood swings with them as other people here seem to. I always thought they were nice birds...Tend to take awhile to gain their trust, but never considered them vicious. Moe must have been female, I don't think the lilac that I am interested in has been DNA sexed.

I guess its like pitbulls, my mom is fostering one right now, and a lot of people will say they're great dogs, good with kids, and others will say BAN THEM! That dog listens to me better than anyone else in the family. Like you wrote, a lot of it has to do with individual temperment. You say you would never let an amazon near a 3 year old, Moe was great with my niece and nephew who were 2-4 years old in the time I owned him. Again, like you said, because I don't want to give the green light to others who may be curious of this topic, its a bird by bird case.

Moe was actually a rehomed parrot.He was grumpy, and mad, but he lost the home he was in and I felt his pain. I took as much time as I needed to gain his trust.I was at school most the day, when I got home I would just sit and chill with him. I had no experience with birds, he bit me HARD on a few occasions, most of them were my fault, such as not knowing to put my hand into a cage when the room was dark. Of couse I was like 14 and had no idea. Even though he had bonded to me, he would let my friends hold him, only bit one of them, and I had warned her not to mess with him, he wasn't in the mood.
If we did go with this one, even considering all you have told me, as I am deeply pondering it right now, Do you have any suggestions for ways to make the transition easier? Ideas on keeping little fingers away from the bird? I have been thinking about that, and a few ideas have come to mind. I kind of doubt based on your respone that you would approve on such an endeavor, let alone give advice on doing it, but also, at the same time, I would hope some one with as much knowledge on the subject would share ideas.

With the toweling, the fact the bird didn't goes nuts could suggest a laid back temperment? A lot of books have kind of led me to believe that, or have I just totally skewed what it was saying? If I have, please explain to me why they suggest playing games with a towel to get your bird used to it for nail clippings. In my mind, an untamed bird would go ballistic, Moe would even go crazy after he calmed down.

I understand birds are like like toddlers, if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. You have to stand your ground with them, and not give in, having a toddler and having had an amazon, trust me, I know They look for the slightest sign of weakness, and will challenge you constantly until they see you are boss, out of respect, not fear. I also have a great respect for keeping things out of reach, I have lost many things I liked, some very sentimental. It was a hard lesson to learn, and I keep everything of importance locked away in my bedroom, on top of the cupboards, and all drawers, cabinets, ect.. are locked.

I think I covered everything you had written, if not, I am too tired to really think, after spending 3 hours at Chuck E. Cheese, my brain has kinda crashed on me LOL
I look forward to hearing back from you, as you seem to be very wary of this whole idea, which means you will quite brutally honest.

One question for you, other than the bun in the oven, do you have kids? When you're little one is born, are you rehoming all your birds? Or do you not keep birds, or not own amazons? Not trying to pick a fight or anything, just an honest question as you seem to have a lot of advice on this, maybe you know people who have done this before, or are just giving the worse case scenerios of what could happen, or what has happened. Again, don't want to start a fight. Just wondering.

 

[Auggie's Dad]

Sarah,

I think Tex gave quit a bit of good advice. While you may have read other viewpoints elsewhere could it be that you are filtering the info for the answers you want to here?

I fully understand the passion to get a feathered friend, and I wouldn't want to discourage you in general. But is there any reason it has to be Amazon? Couldn't a new addition to the family be a great learning experience for your children if you got an "easier" bird that they could interact with much more than a 'zon?

Have you considered other parrot species?

 

[Sarah]

Hey,
I am trying not to hear the answers I want to hear. Which is hard when you've already got your mind made up...I'm just having a hard time believing that amazons have this terrible reputation. I think thats what the issue is.
I thought about everything he wrote last night, was up later than I wanted to be, laying awake in bed considering it all.
I guess you could call me stupid, or blindly optimistic. I just prefer amazons. They're what I know. My mom managed pet stores growing up, so we had a lot of different animals, and I would go with her to work on several occasions and get to know all the large birds. I had better luck with them than the smaller parrots, they would always attack me.
I'm going to keep thinking about it. The last thing I want is for my kids to get hurt. I could careless about myself, doesn't worry me much.
I guess you're all thinking there is no point in arguing ignorance now, so I thank you for taking the time and returning questions I had.
Tex ~ may your wife have a quick L&D and an even quicker recovery. Oh, and a NON-colicky, healthy baby. Good luck with your little one, they are awesome lil buggers, the sleepless nights get to you, but eventually you get sleep again, and once they start walking, you can't believe how quickly the time went. Its something else.

 

[Auggie's Dad]

Hey,
I'm just having a hard time believing that amazons have this terrible reputation.

I don't think they have a terrible reputation. And I couldn't agree with you more about pitbulls, by their own nature they are some of the sweetest and most patient dogs. But it is a matter of "the right tool for the right job" so to speak. I love dobermans as well, but I wouldn't have a doberman in my small apartment... it's more of a chihuahua sized home

Similar considerations can be made of birds. Not whether a breed of bird is "good" or "bad" but rather whether they are the right fit for a given situation.

Also I don't think anyone meant to imply you were ignorant. If anything I said implied that I hope you will accept my apologies. Bringing home any new pet will carry with it diverse challenges. You initially asked what those challenges may be so the answers you got were what the down sides could be. Of course if you asked what all the joys of owning an amazon were you would hear what the joys were. It is up to you to weigh those downsides with those joys, which it seems you have done.

I hope you will let us know how things go. We'd all love to hear a success story.

 

[Auggie's Dad]

Sarah,

Where abouts in MN are you? I just moved from there not too long ago.

 

[Sarah]

Doesn't make much of a difference now, because I had Steve read all the responses, and he is dead set against it now I figured he would be, but I wanted him to read it regardless. So now, I get to be bummed out. I don't think there is any way of opening his mind the postives now that he has read all the negatives, so yeah.
I originally wanted a Cockatoo, because they have a reputation for being loving birds, but they also have a reputation for wanting to be attached at the hip, and with small kids in the house, it wouldn't really work. Its just really disappointing right now. I honestly thought all would be well, with a lot of work and training. It'd be great to get that bird, and have a success story, it really would, I would love nothing more than that, and now I don't even get a chance to try. Thats what upsets me, that I don't even get to try. If I was allowed to get him, and all he!! broke loose and we couldn't keep him, I would at least know I tried, I did my best, but its like giving up without giving the bird a fair chance. I wouldn't mind being out of the money, that doesn't bother me, I just have this gut feeling that everything would be okay.
I have an idea of where the bird came from, I called a few pet stores that were in the woman's area, and they told me that it was probably the Petco that sold it, and in my mind, they would've done a vet check? I may be wrong.
I live in Fridley, by the way.
Now I get to tell the woman that its a no go, and I just hope that she is able to find him a good home.

 

[Admin]

If your relationship is strong and you really want it, I don't see the harm in him letting you try. Just my 2c.

 

[Sarah]

Thats how I feel about it..I mean, I stay home with the kids, I keep a close eye on things. I have a baby gate to keep them in the living room, or in the playroom, where ever I am. Fear of the unknown is a hard fear to overcome. I felt so bad for telling the woman it was off, she was so sweet in her response saying that even though I ended up not getting him, she was glad to have met me, even if only through email. And said I would find the right bird eventually.

I did have a breakthrough with Steve today, I can get a parrot with next years tax return, which gives me about a year to research, the kids will be a little bit older, and it will also be a way of knowing if this truly is a spur of the moment impulse want, or if this something I REALLY would love to have again.
I was doing some research on Cockatoos, found a VERY brutally honest site, that the people kind of attacked the woman for wanting one with children in the house, so I decided against that. Steve does NOT want an amazon, although, I still kind of do.
I don't know, I guess I have some time to think and research, will probably join numerous bird forums to get a lot of different opinions, maybe join a bird club around here and go to the meetings.
Apparently my experience with Moe was a miracle, from what I have read, not very common.
All birds have the ups and downs, and finding one that will work for us is a good place to start. I just have a grudge against the little ones....I fear them. I fear a bite from a budgie and a cockatiel more so than an amazon.

I still just can't believe an amazon could be so crazy...man...Sorry to go on about that, but it just totally messes with my mind LOL I just can't get over that....I'm still just kind of in awe about it...

I don't know what you guys would recommend, guess I can post in the general area with the questions I'll be having next.
Again, thanks for all the answers, I appreciate it.

 

[Admin]

I have an idea, since with Steve it seems to at least be partially about money... show him you are willing to sacrifice a bit to have it. Show him you really want it.

Why not go into the garage, or closet and start ebay'ing some of the stuff that you own that YOU no longer use (don't sell his stuff, bad idea) -- and with the money you make off that, you can show him you've made the money for the bird, plus the care and feeding of the bird for 6 months in advance.

That would really send a good message.

 

[Sarah]

I have been selling my stuff I don't use. I belong to an Aquarium forum as well, I own a 125gal aquarium in a Mobile home, which would freak out most people, but I also spent time researching how to add supports under the house. I also have a 10gal with pea puffers and a 20gal grow out tank for the 125.
I made over 300$ this last weekend selling aquarium things I didn't need, and thinning out my stock. He told me money wasn't the issue, he is worried about how it will impact our life and mix in with us and the kids. I told him it'll take time to adjust, just like having an actual baby, you have your adjustment period until things kind fall into place.

After the post by Tex, he is against amazons as a whole. Really bums me out. I like them, I like how feisty they can be, I like a challenge. I like taking something that people say can't be done and do it. I love when some one tells me it can't be done, and do it just to prove it can be. I hate when someone tells me I can't do it, or its not possible, makes me crazy.

Steve is more of a mellow laid back kind of person,just kind of goes with the flow and he was raised in a much different environment than I was. Our philosophy on raising kids is very different as well, I am more of the let "live and learn" and he is more paranoid about things. He also tends to over-analyze a LOT of things. LOL
So we have had some hard times working through things, but we TRY, its like the saying "Anything worth having is not easy" Or so that what we tell ourselves hahaha I got my compromise today. I can't talk to him about birds for 30 days LOL, and I have to research all kinds of parrots I like, and when I have it narrowed down, we will discuss which would be best.
Its not looking very promising with the kids in the house, the only ones people recommend with small children are all the ones that seriously freak me out LOL Some one had posted about a Green Wing Macaw being good with their kids, but again, every bird is different. Something else I have to consider, is do I want to adopt from a resuce, as there is one by me, or do I get a rehomed bird? Steve is not cool with the idea of getting one from a breeder, thats the area he DOES have a problem with the price. After quite a bit of reading, birds from breeders tend to be very sweet for awhile, and when they hit maturity, they never go back to the same sweet lil bird you knew. If we did a rehomed bird, it would be one that was WELL taken cared of, the people rehoming REALLY don't want to rehome it, but due to having to move ect. they have no choice.
I do have one last amazon question, are the females more easily adjusted to having to share their love than males? I know the males can be pretty wild when they need some "action", but the females seem to be more mellow?
Sorry for my excessively long posts...Just have a lot of things on my mind, and not enough time to write little posts here and there, my youngest is happily chilling with a bottle at the moment, so my hands are free for typing

 

[TexDot33]

I feel that my post may have given 'Zons in general a bad name ... I feel that I must defend the 'Zons now, because ~ in the right hands, and the right situation ~ they are awesome parrots.

I know a gentleman who has rescued (not from the shelters, but rather from the VETS and THE NEEDLE) 2 amazons. He has a Blue Front Amazon and a Lilac Crowned Amazon ~ The LCA was a phobic biter and was scheduled to be euthanized a day before he started to work with her ... no one wanted the bird and no one ould get close to her (the rescue he was working at wanted her gone becuase they didn't think she could be rehomed) ... His BFA he rescued from a really bad situation where she was living with a biker, learned words that you didn't want her to repeat (and still to this day can use 'F You' contextually correctly). She was allowed to have BACON anytime she wanted to (there is also evidence that she enjoyed BEER as well) and the original owner was a heavy smoker ... Initial vet reports said that this bird had liver values that were FATAL if left untreated, he was able to bring the values back into a respecable area with a proper diet and a compund called Aloe Detox. These two amazons are now his "velcro book-end" birds ... they sit as close as they possibly can to his face all day long, and he loves it ... and those are, now, great birds; but, it took a ton of time from a guy who has 25+ years of parrot behavior and training knowledge to get them that way.

Another woman, that I absolutely adore and have learned a lot of information from, has a Double Yellow Headed Amazon ... Her DYH is a great bird, friendly, playful and is passed from child to child during birthday parties at the parrot shop that she owns (the children are usually 4 to 5 years old ~ this is one exception that I talked about in my last post) but again, she is someone who is absorbed in the 'parrot world' and has a TON of knowledge on both behavior and training.

An untrained, seasonal hormonal amazon defending his/her territory IS DANGEROUS and very easily could hurt a child. I am not saying that you shouldn't ever own a 'Zon, or ever try to rescue one. We all have to know our limits. Mine specifically are that I WILL NEVER RESCUE/FOSTER/OWN a 'TOO ... NO WAY! I know people who have, and who do, those are some great birds ~ they are brave and foolish people! But then again, people look at me handling large Macaws with my nose burried into the nape of their necks (like in my avatar ~ RIP Majestic, I miss you a lot girl and I know your momma does too) and they think I'M crazy ~ but that is MY comfort zone, I feel safe there.

ALL PARROTS ARE GREAT PARROTS IN THE HANDS OF THE PROPER PEOPLE WHO CAN HANDLE THEM PROPERLY!!

 

[Sarah]

Well, sadly, I don't think that will ever let him open his mind to an amazon. I don't have a snowballs chance in he!! of changing his mind on the amazons. There is ONE exception to that, if I ever am able to find Moe. He knows how much that bird means to me, and the fact that once in a while, five years later, I'll sit there and get teary-eyed (all right, I break down and have a good cry) thinking about him.
I totally get you on the cockatoos. Not a good pick for us, great birds and all, but after doing research on them, no way. I always wanted one, because you'd see them at stores, and they were so friendly, and so loving. The website I mentioned had a section for pictures of bites from them, I think it was a great website for anyone thinking of getting one, a little morbid, and negative, but it definatly rules out the faint of heart.

I've been looking into greenwing macaws, I am a bit intimidated by their size, but so far, and I'm sure you'll have some good ol' perspective to prove it wrong I have found them to a better choice with kids. Again, so far...I have over a year to think this all through, and who knows, a year later I may not be interested anymore, or I might find Moe...That would be awesome. I could read that bird like a book with large print LOL
I put a post on CL, had a filter to keep out people messing with me, they need to know the name of the woman I worked with, along with what type of band (Open, closed, or none at all) Moe had and had to put it in the subject line. I don't expect to ever find him, but crazier things have happened.