Hi,
New member, here's my intro thread:
http://www.parrotforums.com/new-members-welcome/38994-hi-aberdeen-scotland.html#post337435
Apologies but this is a long and complex post...
Chilli is a 7 year old Greenwing Macaw, previously in excellent health. We shared our lives with a CAG, but on Halloween Chilli suffered what appeared to be an asthma attack. She had a few of those years ago, which we eventually traced to a wood burning stove, and there had been no recurrence since we stopped using the stove.
The attack wasn't too severe. I'm not exactly sure when it started as I was bout at the time, but as soon as I came back I moved her to the shower room, and steamed it up, after about an hour of that she was pretty well recovered. At the same time I ventilated the rest of the apartment, and that seemed to be the end of it. I though it might just be a one off, so decided just to keep a close eye on her. Next day she was back to her usual self, and everything was fine for a week, then she suffered a second attack. The recurrence was a little more worrying, and the attack was a little more severe this time, and lasted longer. I slept with her on my pillow so that I could monitor her through the night, but by morning she seemed to be fine, just a little tired. The day after that she was back to normal again.
I do have a nebuliser, but it's at my house, which is currently occupied by my ex and there was apparently some difficulty looking it out for me. Unfortunately I forgot to take it when I moved out, as I had assumed that I'd be back in possession of my house months ago, but anyway... long story
Chilli then suffered a third and much more serious attack 10 days later. I'd never seen an attack this bad before, it was much worse that any of the previous ones, and there were times I thought I was going to lose her. She was whimpering through some of it. There is no specialist avian vet within 200 miles of where we live, and to be honest I think if I'd attempted to probably futile journey to the local vet then she might have died in transit. Instead I moved her into the vacant apartment below us, which I have access to, and which would be entirely free of dander.
Eventually the attack abated, but it took hours. At this point I realised that any potential sources of the allergy needed to by eliminated if possible. The list was:
recent batch of food
airborne pollution from the city
oil filled radiator
dander from the CAG
I immediately moved the CAG back to live with my ex, who to her credit was very supportive, and also managed to loan me a nebuliser, although not my nebuliser (don't ask), and some F10SC.
Next I bought a carpet washer and hard floor washer, and completely cleaned the apartment top to bottom three times (and once a week subsequently), and aired it out for 24 hours, opening all the windows and running the extract fans. I repeated the dusting again every 24 hours until any traces of dander were undetectable.
The heater, although unlikely to be the culprit, was exchanged for another one, and I ran this at a lower temperature, and humidified the room slightly with a basin of hot water.
I have never had any sources of teflon in the house, so that was ruled out, and her cage has always been stainless.
I examined the new batch of food, it's the same exceptionally high quality stuff we've always used, everything is human grade, and I often munch on it myself. The nuts are all diamond stamped, and I pick out the peanuts. Decided that the food was unlikely to be the source of the problem.
Chilli's voice was still croaky for a few days afterwards, but within a week it the difference was barely noticable, and I thought we were in the clear. Didn't want to use any medication unless absolutely necessary as she had a sting immune system, and wanted to give that a chance. There has not be any attacks since, and CAG dander is now the main suspect. Although the birds had lived together for 7 years, in our other home they spent a lot of time in the aviary.
I've also always had air scrubbers fitted in every room of the house, I use the incinerator type, and these are also fitted to this apartment. These were originally fitted because I'm actually allergic to CAG danger, although I found an easy and safe way to control that. Later when Chilli was going through her woodsmoke allergy period, CAG dander was a suspect, so the number of scrubbers was increased.
Why the dander should become a problem now I'm not entirely sure, but I've been very busy lately, and hadn't been keeping on top of the dusting, and that coupled with the lack of the aviary, the fact that it was winter, and the windows were closed, and the heater was drying out the atmosphere is the most likely explanation. The dust was visible in the air when the sun shone through the window.
We're now approaching a month since the last attack, but the last week the croaky voice has returned during the last week, and is becoming more noticeable. The only other symptom is that she is sleeping occasionally through the day with he head under her wing, but it could just be that I'm noticing this more, and it's not actually unusual. These aren't ling naps, just a few minutes, and only once or twice a day. She sleeps 10 hours in the dark every night, with an hour of dim light on a timer either end of that.
However:
she is perching on one leg, including when sleeping
eyes are clear
there is no evidence of tail bobbing
her breathing looks and sounds normal, and her chest sounds clear
eating normally
drinking normally
flying normally
squawking normally, and very loud when she wants attention (normal)
preening normally
no noticeable weightloss - she's a big bird, even for a Greenwing
there is no discharge from her nostrils
there is no coughing or sneezing
she isn't fluffed up, except perhaps during these short sleeping spells
her plumage is fine, and there's no blackening of it either
she is playful, vocal, and active
her droppings are normal
does not appear breathless
If I take her to the local vet, then he's not going to notice anything other than the voice issue. In order to probe further he's probably going to suggest anaesthetising her, and I'm keen to avoid that unless there's no option, or he condition begins to deteriorate.
I could drive to the avian vet, which is 200 miles away, but that a whole day of driving with her getting stressed in a travel cage. Again, he'd probably have to put her under to take x-rays, and peer down her throat, so I'd rather avoid that at present, because although she's not quite herself, she's far from being obviously sick. 6 years ago, when we had the previous issue with asthma (which turned out to be due to a wood burning stove), a local vet diagnosed aspergillosis, and wanted to put her under and do a biopsy. I refused, as I felt that the risks were too high, and that turned out to be the right decision at that time.
The extra sleeping spells may all be normal, just that i'm more conscious of them, I wouldn't have given that a second thought if it hadn't been for the croaky voice. Now I'm well aware that birds hide their illnesses, but when she's had a cold or whatever in the past, it's always been quite noticable that all is not well, and this isn't the case here.
She's still playing with me, she showers with me once a week, she plays with her toys, she beak crunches, and if you looked at her then you'd see a really healthy looking specimen. There has been some minor feather chewing since the CAG moved out, but that's understandable, and she's previously done similar when we've moved house, so was not unexpected. I'm treating that with Featheriffic, which worked the last time. I don't use the Avicalm, because that turned her into a zombie last time, and the Featheriffic does seem to be working nicely again with regard to the feathers.
There is also the possibility that the slightly croaky voice isn't serious and will clear up on it's own. In theory this could be a seed that's gotten lodged, but suspect that her body acids would have softened it up enough to be expelled by now, so consider that unlikely.
The most likely explanation is that she's contracted a secondary respiratory infection off the back of the last asthma attack, either bacterial or fungal. I've started nebulising her with 1:250 concentration F10SC, three times a day for 30mins. I'm hoping if it's a non-serious secondary infection then that might be enough to shift it. Have also bumped up her diet with addition of some oat biscuits, one spread with palm oil and manuka, and another spread with virgin coconut oil, which is known for it's anti fungal and anti bacterial properties.
I've also been reading about stuff called Oxine AH, which is commonly used with a nebuliser to treat respiratory infections in poultry. It's chlorine based, and seems to be used the same way as F10. Chicken and duck people describe it as miraculous, even saving birds at death's door with aspergillosis where antifungals have failed. Has anyone any experience of using this with parrots?
Any thoughts?
New member, here's my intro thread:
http://www.parrotforums.com/new-members-welcome/38994-hi-aberdeen-scotland.html#post337435
Apologies but this is a long and complex post...
Chilli is a 7 year old Greenwing Macaw, previously in excellent health. We shared our lives with a CAG, but on Halloween Chilli suffered what appeared to be an asthma attack. She had a few of those years ago, which we eventually traced to a wood burning stove, and there had been no recurrence since we stopped using the stove.
The attack wasn't too severe. I'm not exactly sure when it started as I was bout at the time, but as soon as I came back I moved her to the shower room, and steamed it up, after about an hour of that she was pretty well recovered. At the same time I ventilated the rest of the apartment, and that seemed to be the end of it. I though it might just be a one off, so decided just to keep a close eye on her. Next day she was back to her usual self, and everything was fine for a week, then she suffered a second attack. The recurrence was a little more worrying, and the attack was a little more severe this time, and lasted longer. I slept with her on my pillow so that I could monitor her through the night, but by morning she seemed to be fine, just a little tired. The day after that she was back to normal again.
I do have a nebuliser, but it's at my house, which is currently occupied by my ex and there was apparently some difficulty looking it out for me. Unfortunately I forgot to take it when I moved out, as I had assumed that I'd be back in possession of my house months ago, but anyway... long story
Chilli then suffered a third and much more serious attack 10 days later. I'd never seen an attack this bad before, it was much worse that any of the previous ones, and there were times I thought I was going to lose her. She was whimpering through some of it. There is no specialist avian vet within 200 miles of where we live, and to be honest I think if I'd attempted to probably futile journey to the local vet then she might have died in transit. Instead I moved her into the vacant apartment below us, which I have access to, and which would be entirely free of dander.
Eventually the attack abated, but it took hours. At this point I realised that any potential sources of the allergy needed to by eliminated if possible. The list was:
recent batch of food
airborne pollution from the city
oil filled radiator
dander from the CAG
I immediately moved the CAG back to live with my ex, who to her credit was very supportive, and also managed to loan me a nebuliser, although not my nebuliser (don't ask), and some F10SC.
Next I bought a carpet washer and hard floor washer, and completely cleaned the apartment top to bottom three times (and once a week subsequently), and aired it out for 24 hours, opening all the windows and running the extract fans. I repeated the dusting again every 24 hours until any traces of dander were undetectable.
The heater, although unlikely to be the culprit, was exchanged for another one, and I ran this at a lower temperature, and humidified the room slightly with a basin of hot water.
I have never had any sources of teflon in the house, so that was ruled out, and her cage has always been stainless.
I examined the new batch of food, it's the same exceptionally high quality stuff we've always used, everything is human grade, and I often munch on it myself. The nuts are all diamond stamped, and I pick out the peanuts. Decided that the food was unlikely to be the source of the problem.
Chilli's voice was still croaky for a few days afterwards, but within a week it the difference was barely noticable, and I thought we were in the clear. Didn't want to use any medication unless absolutely necessary as she had a sting immune system, and wanted to give that a chance. There has not be any attacks since, and CAG dander is now the main suspect. Although the birds had lived together for 7 years, in our other home they spent a lot of time in the aviary.
I've also always had air scrubbers fitted in every room of the house, I use the incinerator type, and these are also fitted to this apartment. These were originally fitted because I'm actually allergic to CAG danger, although I found an easy and safe way to control that. Later when Chilli was going through her woodsmoke allergy period, CAG dander was a suspect, so the number of scrubbers was increased.
Why the dander should become a problem now I'm not entirely sure, but I've been very busy lately, and hadn't been keeping on top of the dusting, and that coupled with the lack of the aviary, the fact that it was winter, and the windows were closed, and the heater was drying out the atmosphere is the most likely explanation. The dust was visible in the air when the sun shone through the window.
We're now approaching a month since the last attack, but the last week the croaky voice has returned during the last week, and is becoming more noticeable. The only other symptom is that she is sleeping occasionally through the day with he head under her wing, but it could just be that I'm noticing this more, and it's not actually unusual. These aren't ling naps, just a few minutes, and only once or twice a day. She sleeps 10 hours in the dark every night, with an hour of dim light on a timer either end of that.
However:
she is perching on one leg, including when sleeping
eyes are clear
there is no evidence of tail bobbing
her breathing looks and sounds normal, and her chest sounds clear
eating normally
drinking normally
flying normally
squawking normally, and very loud when she wants attention (normal)
preening normally
no noticeable weightloss - she's a big bird, even for a Greenwing
there is no discharge from her nostrils
there is no coughing or sneezing
she isn't fluffed up, except perhaps during these short sleeping spells
her plumage is fine, and there's no blackening of it either
she is playful, vocal, and active
her droppings are normal
does not appear breathless
If I take her to the local vet, then he's not going to notice anything other than the voice issue. In order to probe further he's probably going to suggest anaesthetising her, and I'm keen to avoid that unless there's no option, or he condition begins to deteriorate.
I could drive to the avian vet, which is 200 miles away, but that a whole day of driving with her getting stressed in a travel cage. Again, he'd probably have to put her under to take x-rays, and peer down her throat, so I'd rather avoid that at present, because although she's not quite herself, she's far from being obviously sick. 6 years ago, when we had the previous issue with asthma (which turned out to be due to a wood burning stove), a local vet diagnosed aspergillosis, and wanted to put her under and do a biopsy. I refused, as I felt that the risks were too high, and that turned out to be the right decision at that time.
The extra sleeping spells may all be normal, just that i'm more conscious of them, I wouldn't have given that a second thought if it hadn't been for the croaky voice. Now I'm well aware that birds hide their illnesses, but when she's had a cold or whatever in the past, it's always been quite noticable that all is not well, and this isn't the case here.
She's still playing with me, she showers with me once a week, she plays with her toys, she beak crunches, and if you looked at her then you'd see a really healthy looking specimen. There has been some minor feather chewing since the CAG moved out, but that's understandable, and she's previously done similar when we've moved house, so was not unexpected. I'm treating that with Featheriffic, which worked the last time. I don't use the Avicalm, because that turned her into a zombie last time, and the Featheriffic does seem to be working nicely again with regard to the feathers.
There is also the possibility that the slightly croaky voice isn't serious and will clear up on it's own. In theory this could be a seed that's gotten lodged, but suspect that her body acids would have softened it up enough to be expelled by now, so consider that unlikely.
The most likely explanation is that she's contracted a secondary respiratory infection off the back of the last asthma attack, either bacterial or fungal. I've started nebulising her with 1:250 concentration F10SC, three times a day for 30mins. I'm hoping if it's a non-serious secondary infection then that might be enough to shift it. Have also bumped up her diet with addition of some oat biscuits, one spread with palm oil and manuka, and another spread with virgin coconut oil, which is known for it's anti fungal and anti bacterial properties.
I've also been reading about stuff called Oxine AH, which is commonly used with a nebuliser to treat respiratory infections in poultry. It's chlorine based, and seems to be used the same way as F10. Chicken and duck people describe it as miraculous, even saving birds at death's door with aspergillosis where antifungals have failed. Has anyone any experience of using this with parrots?
Any thoughts?
). I'd be extremely wary of chlorine if your bird's already had asthma, I recall it nearly put me in hospital in high school after exposure in science experiments, and I've never been happy around swimming pools. I concur that a secondary infection is likely after the asthma attack, as I often had lingering bronchitis as a kid. Frankly, unless it's fungal, and known to be fungal, I'd be concentrating on antibiotics. That would only be proven with microbiological testing, which it would be worthwhile having before trying commercial chicken-raising treatments.
