Building Trust - I think he's contemplating my murder

[Roo1130]

So sully is my first "big" bird and we're both kinda afraid of each other. He was doing pretty good the first couple of days letting me step him up out of his cage and now he makes a subtle "rawr" and kind of nudges my hand like "no thank you". i can offer him a treat inside his cage and he'll take it from my hand. But he's not very interested in stepping up.

i'm inexperienced/scaredy cat to know when you push a little, versus when you're just pissing them off.

I think this oversized adorable baby bird is contemplating ways to murder me in my sleep. :-(

I can be patient (well, it's hard, bc actually i'd love to bond with my new boy) but i'm also afraid that if i don't "push" the right amount I'm letting him get away with being a sass and maybe it'll get even worse. But then again I've got more experience training dogs than birds, so i'm the first to admit i'm just a novice with a sexy bird :17:

 

[Flboy]

Sounds like the beginning of a great relationship!

 

[davefv92c]

I agree with FLboy. sounds a lot like Maxx acted when I first brought him home at about the same age as yours in the pic you posted. after a couple of months he runs to the door to step up anytime he see's me even heading towards his cage and he steps right up I don't even have to ask him to. I would say by your posts you are in a hurry to bond, relax a little and work at the birds pace. I know I will get a lot of feedback from what I'm about to post but that is ok. I don't treat my pets because they do something special I did not get them to teach them to do tricks I got them to be my buddy's and keep me company mainly due to many people piss me off, and I would rather be around the birds then out in the world around people. so stepping up is something I figure is normal for my birds to do,so they all do this without offering treats. now hell yes I treat my birds and all my pets just cause who they are and I figure if they can put up with me
they deserve it.lol

sounds like you and your sully bird will have a good relationship. I used to think it was cute when Maxx made that grunting type sound but I also noted that sound seems to come at times of displeasure so when I hear it and he is out it puts me on guard to figure out what the displeasure may be.

 

[JBassset]

I agree with FLboy. sounds a lot like Maxx acted when I first brought him home at about the same age as yours in the pic you posted. after a couple of months he runs to the door to step up anytime he see's me even heading towards his cage and he steps right up I don't even have to ask him to. I would say by your posts you are in a hurry to bond, relax a little and work at the birds pace. I know I will get a lot of feedback from what I'm about to post but that is ok. I don't treat my pets because they do something special I did not get them to teach them to do tricks I got them to be my buddy's and keep me company mainly due to many people piss me off, and I would rather be around the birds then out in the world around people. so stepping up is something I figure is normal for my birds to do,so they all do this without offering treats. now hell yes I treat my birds and all my pets just cause who they are and I figure if they can put up with me
they deserve it.lol

sounds like you and your sully bird will have a good relationship. I used to think it was cute when Maxx made that grunting type sound but I also noted that sound seems to come at times of displeasure so when I hear it and he is out it puts me on guard to figure out what the displeasure may be.

I'm with Dave on this one. I don't treat my birds for doing things they should be doing. Sure, I use treats as training aids to teach them what they should be doing. I don't give the dog a treat for sitting when told to.

Well, not food treats. I do tell them they're "good boys" for it. The dog will get a pat on the head, the birds a scratch on the head for it... so that might be a treat.

I had a dog trainer tell me once that a dog that behaves only for treats isn't trained, its owner is.

Sure, for the TRICKS... the funny little games we play like pointing a finger at the dog and saying "BANG" he gets a treat. Same for the birds. But for the basics like step up? Nah. I'd be giving them treats all the time.

 

[SailBoat]

Prior to responding to this Thread, I double checked with one of the Honored Members of the Amazona Committee on Bumping Off Owners and was informed that Sully had not made contact and thereby has not made a request for information and/or entered into a contractual agreement. So, I think that you are safe, a least at this point.

I would like to say that you are not alone when faced with this behavior.

There is a Thread within the upper fifteen Threads with an Amazon Owner that is faced with a like problem. I would recommend you take a look at that Threat!


FYI: Male YNA Biting One Specific Person - Need Help Breaking This Habit!

Also, for background information, consider reading the Thread at the top of the Amazon Forum: Understanding Amazon Body Language and later read I Love Amazons - ... Both will provide you information that will help.

PLEASE NOTE: Understanding Amazon Body Language is recommended to Point Out, that each species of Parrot have their own Body Language that as an owner we need to learn!

 

[Panama]

Prior to responding to this Thread, I double checked with one of the Honored Members of the Amazona Committee on Bumping Off Owners and was informed that Sully had not made contact and thereby has not made a request for information and/or entered into a contractual agreement. So, I think that you are safe, a least at this point.

I would like to say that you are not alone when faced with this behavior.

There is a Thread within the upper fifteen Threads with an Amazon Owner that is faced with a like problem. I would recommend you take a look at that Threat!


FYI: Male YNA Biting One Specific Person - Need Help Breaking This Habit!

Also, for background information, consider reading the Thread at the top of the Amazon Forum: Understanding Amazon Body Language and later read I Love Amazons - ... Both will provide you information that will help.

PLEASE NOTE: Understanding Amazon Body Language is recommended to Point Out, that each species of Parrot have their own Body Language that as an owner we need to learn!

Lol! Yes, I am right there with you. I, on a daily basis, believe my Amazon is plotting my untimely demise. Patience, stock up on bandaids, more patience, and check in on this forum often. That is about all the advice I can give you! I also really want to bond and love on my boy, however, he has chosen someone else to be his So I sit back and work at it a little at a time, each day. You will get there eventually! (Or so I have been told by others, lol)

 

[OutlawedSpirit]

I would say for right now you're okay, but you'll eventually have to step up and walk the line between enforcing a command and letting them get away with murder.

I can get my birds to step up at any point if necessary, but I also like to give them the option not to come out if they don't want to, and I don't need them to. Ekkies can have quite the independent streak, and I've noticed that sometimes they just don't want to interact. My girl will come out most of the time if I ask, but every once in a while she is content where she is and wants to be just left alone. If you give in to them wanting to stay in their cage too much, however, you're setting yourself up for major issues. It is a fine line to walk, but I think it is something that you will pick up in time.

For now, I wouldn't force him to come out if he doesn't want to, but still interact with him. Maybe start doing some target training with him in his cage. Then he doesn't have to come out if he isn't comfortable, but it will make it easier for you when it's time to start pushing him to come out if he doesn't decide he wants to on his own.

 

[camo]

The growl is a good thing as it means your boy is at least vocal about his feelings (better that than subtle body language prior to biting IMO). The question becomes how annoyed is he, my male Gizmo will growl at the slightest annoyance, so pushing the point generally wouldn't necessarily result in a bite, my female Pebbles rarely growls, and if she does, you are doing something that is really pissing her off, she has never bitten me, but that's probably because I have respected her when this has happened. So the most important thing is to get to know Sully, and his personality. As already suggested some target training in the cage could be a good thing. Although I agree my two don't get treats anymore for step up, I wouldn't be afraid in the beginning to treat away, as eventually he will step up because he knows that's time with you (which is the best treat), but the food treat is the substitute until he realises how fun it is to be out of the cage with you.

As for when and when not to push, that is a hard one to answer, as it really depends on a lot of factors, and this is why getting to know Sully and him to know you is the important step. Your right to have a healthy respect for his beak, but like with dogs, parrots will pick up on fear and hesitation, this is likely to cause mistrust, so make sure you work through that. The reality is you probably are going to get bitten at some point, that's just the way it is, especially if you are new to parrots. The key is not to let the fear cause the problem, for example, you don't want to be thinking is he going to bite me and flinching your hand when he is just trying to get a good grip with his beak to step up.

To explain what I mean by the importance of getting to know Sully, I have effectively three step up commands. There is "step up?" to which Gizmo and Pebbles generally say yes please, although some days Pebbles just wants a little time in her cage before comming out, and that's fine, I will give her some time and eventually she is at the front of the cage saying "hey let me out". Then there is two forced step ups (when something is wrong, or I have to go out urgently, etc.) With Gizmo it's about attitude, a slightly lower tone, still happy, but with purpose, and moving the hand towards him with confidence. With Pebbles, it's basically a case of a two handed step up, one hand on each side and I move them in towards her as I say step up (again in a slightly lower tone, with purpose). These are not interchangeable, using Gizmo's technique with Pebbles would just bring out her stubborn personality and she would either sit there holding on, or turn it into a game of catch me if you can. Using Pebbles technique on Gizmo would either see him fly off, or bite you. The reality is, if they wanted to, I would have no chance getting them back into the cage, short of having a net, especially Gizmo who is a very talented flyer. This is where the them knowing me part comes into play, they know that they will get to come out again, they know I generally do give them a choice, and they know with this tone I am not going to give up.

With all this said, don't stress too much about what's right or wrong, or getting him to come out of the cage, you will hopefully have a whole life together to figure each other out. I am certain before too long Sully will be dancing at the front of the cage first thing in the morning, waiting for you to bring him out

 

[Anansi]

The growl is a good thing as it means your boy is at least vocal about his feelings (better that than subtle body language prior to biting IMO). The question becomes how annoyed is he, my male Gizmo will growl at the slightest annoyance, so pushing the point generally wouldn't necessarily result in a bite, my female Pebbles rarely growls, and if she does, you are doing something that is really pissing her off, she has never bitten me, but that's probably because I have respected her when this has happened. So the most important thing is to get to know Sully, and his personality. As already suggested some target training in the cage could be a good thing. Although I agree my two don't get treats anymore for step up, I wouldn't be afraid in the beginning to treat away, as eventually he will step up because he knows that's time with you (which is the best treat), but the food treat is the substitute until he realises how fun it is to be out of the cage with you.

As for when and when not to push, that is a hard one to answer, as it really depends on a lot of factors, and this is why getting to know Sully and him to know you is the important step. Your right to have a healthy respect for his beak, but like with dogs, parrots will pick up on fear and hesitation, this is likely to cause mistrust, so make sure you work through that. The reality is you probably are going to get bitten at some point, that's just the way it is, especially if you are new to parrots. The key is not to let the fear cause the problem, for example, you don't want to be thinking is he going to bite me and flinching your hand when he is just trying to get a good grip with his beak to step up.

To explain what I mean by the importance of getting to know Sully, I have effectively three step up commands. There is "step up?" to which Gizmo and Pebbles generally say yes please, although some days Pebbles just wants a little time in her cage before comming out, and that's fine, I will give her some time and eventually she is at the front of the cage saying "hey let me out". Then there is two forced step ups (when something is wrong, or I have to go out urgently, etc.) With Gizmo it's about attitude, a slightly lower tone, still happy, but with purpose, and moving the hand towards him with confidence. With Pebbles, it's basically a case of a two handed step up, one hand on each side and I move them in towards her as I say step up (again in a slightly lower tone, with purpose). These are not interchangeable, using Gizmo's technique with Pebbles would just bring out her stubborn personality and she would either sit there holding on, or turn it into a game of catch me if you can. Using Pebbles technique on Gizmo would either see him fly off, or bite you. The reality is, if they wanted to, I would have no chance getting them back into the cage, short of having a net, especially Gizmo who is a very talented flyer. This is where the them knowing me part comes into play, they know that they will get to come out again, they know I generally do give them a choice, and they know with this tone I am not going to give up.

With all this said, don't stress too much about what's right or wrong, or getting him to come out of the cage, you will hopefully have a whole life together to figure each other out. I am certain before too long Sully will be dancing at the front of the cage first thing in the morning, waiting for you to bring him out

VERY well said! I agree 100%!

 

[Roo1130]

it's been 3 days since Sully let me hold him. :-( I've been hanging out beside his cage for 1-2 hrs each evening, talking to him about nonsense, playing music for him (he loves this!, he coos and honks softly) He will still let me hand him sunflower seeds, but that is the extent of his interest in my hands being anywhere near him.

I went to the grocery store tonight to round up some little fruit treats for him to try new things (blueberry, strawberry, cantaloupe, etc.) I cut a few little slivers of each and thought we could continue our cage side bonding with me offering him some new treats.

He took a couple tries and then aggressively lunged towards my hand shackles raised. Maybe this is pissy bird way of simply saying "Thats yucky, bring me better offerings HUMAN!" But my feelings are hurt and I already worry about what if he never comes around to wanting to come out. Yes, i may seem a little impatient, but it's because he's young now and learning every day, so i don't want to screw things up with him.

My feelings are hurt and I'm frustrated. i'm sure some of you have felt this way at some point.

 

[itchyfeet]

Oh yes. Especially with the inlaws too. As far as I'm aware, I hadn't changed or done anything wrong - but he went from adoring me to hating me. He'd even call me over sweetly just to lunge.
Until about five days later. He was over it....whatever 'it' was.
How's the weather where you are? Have you rearranged any furniture? Worn any new scents?

 

[Roo1130]

I've only had him a week. But the first few days I could get him out. The last time I was able to get him out he tried to fly and since he is clipped he glided to the ground and started running around like a maniac. Perhaps he's pissy because of that occurrence, perhaps it's unrelated. I'll give him some time and keep sitting by his cage giving him treats in the meantime.