Cat flap for parrots?

[hucker]

I'm looking for a way for my birds to have a heated indoor area, and an outside area, which they can go between by themselves, but without the expense of all the heat going through an open hole. A cat flap is the perfect solution for cats, but what do we use for birds? Would they use a catflap? Is there anything they would prefer?

 

[SailBoat]

Where you live has a great effect on when one would want to have a Parrot driven lifestyle of entering or exiting the home. Cold or very Warm weather, and/or stormy weather would suggest that such free choices would be problematic for the Parrot.

In addition, the size of the Parrot comes into the equation as a flap of weight would limit some.

There is a general problem with the two way effect of a flap. Aside from letting a pet in and out of your home, other animals can also use it!!!

Today in my neck of the woods, it's a wonderful Sunny day, but far too cold for my parrot to be outside. In addition, we live in an area in which five Red Tail Hawks claim as their flight training are for their young. Outside time is a No Way here.

Commonly, outdoor enclosures are assembled using galvanized metal posts, poles and fencing. Galvanizing is a process of applying Zinc to the surface of steel. Zinc is a Heavy Metal and is deadly (Heavy Metal Poisoning) to Parrots.

 

[hucker]

Where you live has a great effect on when one would want to have a Parrot driven lifestyle of entering or exiting the home. Cold or very Warm weather, and/or stormy weather would suggest that such free choices would be problematic for the Parrot.

Giving them their own choice seems the best thing to me. When they feel they want to be warm and dry, they go in. They don't have to do what I think is right. I can't tell how comfortable they are.

In addition, the size of the Parrot comes into the equation as a flap of weight would limit some.

Greys, Amazons, Cockatiels, Lovebirds. Mainly the Greys and Amazons I'm thinking about, since the hole for the others would be smaller and waste a lot less heat.

There is a general problem with the two way effect of a flap. Aside from letting a pet in and out of your home, other animals can also use it!!!

It would be between indoors and an aviary, so not letting anything else in that can't get through the mesh.

Today in my neck of the woods, it's a wonderful Sunny day, but far to cold for my parrot to be outside. In addition, we live in an area in which five Red Tail Hawks claim as their flight training are for their young. Outside time is a No Way here.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Obviously I don't let my birds fly off outside! They'd fly away! I'm talking about into an enclosure.

Commonly, outdoor enclosures are assembled using galvanized metal posts, poles and fencing. Galvanizing is a process of applying Zinc to the surface of steel. Zinc is a Heavy Metal and is deadly (Heavy Metal Poisoning) to Parrots.

I've heard of that, yet almost every caging you can buy (especially here in the UK) is Zinc, not stainless steel. I got worried when someone else said the same as you so took one of my Greys to the vet for a full blood test. He said there was negligible Zinc in his system, despite him climbing on a zinc aviary all day.

 

[wrench13]

With enough knowledge, thinking and engineering and most importantly training of the parrots, this MIGHT work. Aviaries can be had, at least here in the US, off Amazon, with aluminum cage panels. But an all bird egress and access seems a bit much. A cocky or smaller is not going to have the same strength to open a flap as a amazon or grey ( and maybe not the smarts to do it). Hey knock your socks off, it may be a whole new enterprise for you!

I'll watch!

 

[hucker]

With enough knowledge, thinking and engineering and most importantly training of the parrots, this MIGHT work. Aviaries can be had, at least here in the US, off Amazon, with aluminum cage panels. But an all bird egress and access seems a bit much. A cocky or smaller is not going to have the same strength to open a flap as a amazon or grey (and maybe not the smarts to do it). Hey knock your socks off, it may be a whole new enterprise for you!

I'll watch!

I might try some sort of home made flap (an off the shelf catflap would probably be torn to pieces) - I think a piece of polycarbonate (they make the expensive catflaps of this, it's scratchproof and shatterproof, for the more violent cats) hinged with a knitting needle attached with p-clips should be indestructible. It will be transparent, so they can see the other side and want to go through. I'll encourage them to do so and see if they'll do it on their own.

I'm not concerned about the zinc since my vet said they weren't ingesting it. They don't chew it, they just climb on it.

It's mainly the greys and amazons I want to give a flap to, the smaller ones won't waste much heat with a smaller hole.

I'm surprised nobody's invented one, I can't find one on google anyway.

P.S. What is a "Blonde haired Queens wife"?

 

[noodles123]

YOU MUST BE CONCERNED ABOUT ZINC-- EVEN MOUTHING IT IS VERY DANGEROUS...I'm not kidding, parrots have died from just licking it enough times (and it doesn't take that many)--If your vet is a certified avian vet and he/she ran panels and did x-rays etc and REALLY looked into this, that is one thing, but I have never met a CAV who says, "it's cool, they aren't eating the zinc, just licking it.."





I'd be nervous about what you could make any of these enclosures out of.... I mean, a parrot on a heated porch etc is still very dangerous without supervision (1. the walls/woods etc = not safe....2. the heater itself often contains toxic chemicals like teflon/ptfoe/pfoa/pfcs)



I know people have bird-rooms, BUT I don't agree with leaving them alone in there (out of the cage) for more than a very short period--- there is just too much that they could chew or lick...For instance, drywall, paint, treated woods or any metal that is not stainless...



It's a cool thought, but it just makes me very nervous for a number of reasons...plus, a bird hanging out unattended in a yard/in the grass (even if covered with stainless steel mesh or some sort of fiber like they use at zoos) is at higher risk for infection with a variety of parasites and viruses.

 

[wrench13]

Hey Hucker, its a nod to my wonderful wife ( who visits here every now and then ) who is from the NYC borough of Queens ( y'know, Manhattan, Brooklyn, The Bronx, Staten Island and lastly Queens). It throws off a lot of folks from the UK who wonder.. The 19?? is cuz to this day she changes that all the time, LOL, insisting she is still 39.

 

[hucker]

YOU MUST BE CONCERNED ABOUT ZINC-- EVEN MOUTHING IT IS VERY DANGEROUS...I'm not kidding, parrots have died from just licking it enough times (and it doesn't take that many)--If your vet is a certified avian vet and he/she ran panels and did x-rays etc and REALLY looked into this, that is one thing, but I have never met a CAV who says, "it's cool, they aren't eating the zinc, just licking it.."

I've had bloods done and there's virtually no zinc, nothing like the toxic level. And they don't even lick it, they just climb occasionally. If zinc was such a problem there wouldn't be 90% of aviary panels made of it, I think it depends if it's coated or properly galvanised. The only problem I have is getting enough calcium into them, I cannot get any bird of any species to take any calcium medication unless I administer it by dropper! They won't touch any food that I've added it to. And since they have huge water containers that they also bathe in and dunk their biscuits in (which is really cool to watch), putting calcium in there would make me bankrupt.

I'd be nervous about what you could make any of these enclosures out of.... I mean, a parrot on a heated porch etc is still very dangerous without supervision (1. the walls/woods etc = not safe....2. the heater itself often contains toxic chemicals like teflon/ptfoe/pfoa/pfcs)

I know people have bird-rooms, BUT I don't agree with leaving them alone in there (out of the cage) for more than a very short period--- there is just too much that they could chew or lick...For instance, drywall, paint, treated woods or any metal that is not stainless...

Wow, you worry too much. I dread to think what rules you have for your kids. I bet you do the wash your hands before eating routine.

It's a cool thought, but it just makes me very nervous for a number of reasons...plus, a bird hanging out unattended in a yard/in the grass (even if covered with stainless steel mesh or some sort of fiber like they use at zoos) is at higher risk for infection with a variety of parasites and viruses.

I used to have loads of them outdoors, attached to the house, some stayed out most of the time, some went out occasionally, I'd usually leave the window open for them to come and go as they pleased. There was food in the house and in a shed. Never had one catch anything. It's not like they're in direct contact with the wild birds.

 

[hucker]

Hey Hucker, its a nod to my wonderful wife ( who visits here every now and then ) who is from the NYC borough of Queens ( y'know, Manhattan, Brooklyn, The Bronx, Staten Island and lastly Queens). It throws off a lot of folks from the UK who wonder.. The 19?? is cuz to this day she changes that all the time, LOL, insisting she is still 39.

Yeah that's not the meaning of Queen I was thinking of! I didn't know there was an area by that name. I'm from the other side of the big pond. Women have this thing about age. Another thing people seem to be edgy about telling you is their income! My colleagues used to think I was asking something personal like their breast size. I pointed out I could easily see their wage from the last job advert for that line of work!

 

[noodles123]

YOU MUST BE CONCERNED ABOUT ZINC-- EVEN MOUTHING IT IS VERY DANGEROUS...I'm not kidding, parrots have died from just licking it enough times (and it doesn't take that many)--If your vet is a certified avian vet and he/she ran panels and did x-rays etc and REALLY looked into this, that is one thing, but I have never met a CAV who says, "it's cool, they aren't eating the zinc, just licking it.."

I've had bloods done and there's virtually no zinc, nothing like the toxic level. And they don't even lick it, they just climb occasionally. If zinc was such a problem there wouldn't be 90% of aviary panels made of it, I think it depends if it's coated or properly galvanised. The only problem I have is getting enough calcium into them, I cannot get any bird of any species to take any calcium medication unless I administer it by dropper! They won't touch any food that I've added it to. And since they have huge water containers that they also bathe in and dunk their biscuits in (which is really cool to watch), putting calcium in there would make me bankrupt.

I'd be nervous about what you could make any of these enclosures out of.... I mean, a parrot on a heated porch etc is still very dangerous without supervision (1. the walls/woods etc = not safe....2. the heater itself often contains toxic chemicals like teflon/ptfoe/pfoa/pfcs)

I know people have bird-rooms, BUT I don't agree with leaving them alone in there (out of the cage) for more than a very short period--- there is just too much that they could chew or lick...For instance, drywall, paint, treated woods or any metal that is not stainless...

Wow, you worry too much. I dread to think what rules you have for your kids. I bet you do the wash your hands before eating routine.

It's a cool thought, but it just makes me very nervous for a number of reasons...plus, a bird hanging out unattended in a yard/in the grass (even if covered with stainless steel mesh or some sort of fiber like they use at zoos) is at higher risk for infection with a variety of parasites and viruses.

I used to have loads of them outdoors, attached to the house, some stayed out most of the time, some went out occasionally, I'd usually leave the window open for them to come and go as they pleased. There was food in the house and in a shed. Never had one catch anything. It's not like they're in direct contact with the wild birds.

Yeah, I do tell people to wash hands before eating, as there is a global pandemic. Growing up, I drank out of garden hoses and swam in lakes/ponds, literally covered myself entirely in smelly pond mud and pretended to have a spa, ate vegetables without rinsing them, played with lead toys etc.. I eat expired food and often drink well-water...I've also jumped off cliffs and worked with people with leprosy-- (LOL- those 2 things don't go hand -in-hand, but they popped into my head when you said I worry too much). I am not as cautious as you think. Each to his own-- I am just saying, parrots are more fragile than humans and many die in the wild before maturity- which leads to survival of the fittest...You don't get that natural selection in captivity.


You would probably be surprised at all that has gone wrong over the years with various parrots on this forum and at my vet's office.

 

[hucker]

Yeah, I do tell people to wash hands before eating, as there is a global pandemic.

I meant before that, which I also think is overrated. More damage is being done from the restrictions than the actual virus. If I was the government I'd just make recommendations to everyone, not shut down half the businesses so everyone goes bankrupt. Here in the UK we just ignore the rules anyway, everyone goes to visit people, and I just bought two parrots from a petshop that wasn't allowed to sell them to me, and I didn't wear a mask either. 80% of people are immune and get no symptoms, 19% get bed-ridden for 2 weeks, and only 1% die. I ain't changing my life for 1%.

Growing up, I drank out of garden hoses

Same here.

and swam in lakes,

I still do, don't tell me you avoid that!? I even drink from them while swimming, saves carrying drinks with me. I did get a stomach upset from drinking a river I was swimming in, but that was so murky you couldn't see more than a foot through the water. Lots of fields, probably insecticides that disagreed with me.

ate vegetables without rinsing them..

I still do. A shop shouldn't be selling me vegetables with toxins on them! Don't you have regulations over there on food products?

I eat expired food

I go by the smell and what it looks like. I've seen dairy things go off a few days before the use by date, and some a month after. Canned stuff a year after.

and often drink well-water...I've also jumped off cliffs and worked extensively with people with leprosy-- (LOL- those 2 things don't go hand -in-hand, but they popped into my head). I am not as cautious as you think. Each to his own-- I am just saying, parrots are more fragile than humans and many die in the wild before maturity- which leads to survival of the fittest...You don't get that natural selection in captivity.

I think you do get selection in captivity. Unless everyone is over cautious! Hey one of mine ate chocolate and salted crisps for several years until someone told me they're alledgedly deadly. Funny how he's perfectly healthy.

You would probably be surprised at all that has gone wrong over the years with various parrots on this forum and at my vet's office.

I find cats are worse. They catch fleas. And nothing kills fleas, they become immune to a new chemical as soon as it's invented. And contrary to popular belief, cats are not clean. They never wash, not properly in a bath (and most don't let you!), fleas are not removed by licking!

 

[noodles123]

Yeah, I do tell people to wash hands before eating, as there is a global pandemic.

I meant before that, which I also think is overrated. More damage is being done from the restrictions than the actual virus. If I was the government I'd just make recommendations to everyone, not shut down half the businesses so everyone goes bankrupt. Here in the UK we just ignore the rules anyway, everyone goes to visit people, and I just bought two parrots from a petshop that wasn't allowed to sell them to me, and I didn't wear a mask either. 80% of people are immune and get no symptoms, 19% get bed-ridden for 2 weeks, and only 1% die. I ain't changing my life for 1%.

Growing up, I drank out of garden hoses

Same here.

I still do, don't tell me you avoid that!? I even drink from them while swimming, saves carrying drinks with me. I did get a stomach upset from drinking a river I was swimming in, but that was so murky you couldn't see more than a foot through the water. Lots of fields, probably insecticides that disagreed with me.

I still do. A shop shouldn't be selling me vegetables with toxins on them! Don't you have regulations over there on food products?

I go by the smell and what it looks like. I've seen dairy things go off a few days before the use by date, and some a month after. Canned stuff a year after.

and often drink well-water...I've also jumped off cliffs and worked extensively with people with leprosy-- (LOL- those 2 things don't go hand -in-hand, but they popped into my head). I am not as cautious as you think. Each to his own-- I am just saying, parrots are more fragile than humans and many die in the wild before maturity- which leads to survival of the fittest...You don't get that natural selection in captivity.

I think you do get selection in captivity. Unless everyone is over cautious! Hey one of mine ate chocolate and salted crisps for several years until someone told me they're alledgedly deadly. Funny how he's perfectly healthy.

You would probably be surprised at all that has gone wrong over the years with various parrots on this forum and at my vet's office.

I find cats are worse. They catch fleas. And nothing kills fleas, they become immune to a new chemical as soon as it's invented. And contrary to popular belief, cats are not clean. They never wash, not properly in a bath (and most don't let you!), fleas are not removed by licking!

I STILL do most of those things (minus the smelly mud-spa..hard to find the time... haha) --- yes, but I always wash hands before eating---I do this as soon as I walk in, because I get spit in my mouth and eyes on a near-daily basis (because a kid who turns to cough away from people, will always cough on the teacher lol!). SURE, kids shove everything into their mouths, but if we are talking older kids, of course I ask them to wash before eating (especially in the current climate)- If you spent the time I have spent teaching kids, you'd know to wash your hands....I have seen things that would make your blood run cold-- I kid you not. Unmentionable body parts on drinking fountain spouts...tongues dragged across the entire frozen food aisle...so many hands in pants and everywhere else..and hepatitis etc-- that's real too!



I know that non-teachers don't get exposed at the level that I do, but I just hope you are grateful for the teachers on the front lines of nastiness who ask kids to wash their hands periodically....


I get sick maybe 1x a year (including colds). I kid you not when I say that a kid with hepatitis, literally look a chewed caramel out of her mouth and put it in mine to be nice....At the same time, I have a healthy co-worker who now has a collapsed lung... young...from illness..


So yeah...I wash hands these days...it's the least I can do. People have gotten very very sick from kids when they do not do these things, and if teachers in special settings didn't insist upon some hygiene, then there would be lots more sick people and lots fewer teachers.


People have died (pre-covid) from the stuff I am describing-- people who were healthy....So just try not to get too confident, when I lived in India, even kids who grew up drinking nasty water literally died from it at times....the same water I also have consumed. It can be really serious.


I'm on a different rant now LOL but I just want you to understand that parrots in homes=unnatural and they do not have the same built-in immunity (due to stress/lack of exposure to native bacteria etc)...And then, on top of that, parrots, but also people can die from stuff if you miscalculate..Just because you expose yourself on purpose, does not mean that you will survive when stuff gets serious. I literally watched co-workers pass out in Kolkata and run fevers in the 106 region (from boiling and drinking tap water as tea). You would think that would be enough, but it isn't necessarily.



It's also not just about the individual, it's about who the individual could spread things to....So, yeah, a kid could get something and fight it off, but that doesn't mean they aren't spreading it to others---- same with parrots and other parrots. I fully disagree with your beliefs about COVID and restrictions, but that is off-topic more than I already am, so I'll leave that alone.


Your parrots may SEEM fine, but they can make others sick, but they can also spread illness in droppings, feather dust etc. It's important to be more cautious-- the things you said about zinc are quite concerning, but each to his own.

 

[hucker]

I STILL do most of those things (minus the smelly mud-spa..hard to find the time... haha) --- yes, but I always wash hands before eating---I do this as soon as I walk in, because I get spit in my mouth and eyes on a near-daily basis (because a kid who turns to cough away from people, will always cough on the teacher lol!). SURE, kids shove everything into their mouths, but if we are talking older kids, of course I ask them to wash before eating (especially in the current climate)- If you spent the time I have spent teaching kids, you'd know to wash your hands....I have seen things that would make your blood run cold-- I kid you not. Unmentionable body parts on drinking fountain spouts...tongues dragged across the entire frozen food aisle...so many hands in pants and everywhere else..and hepatitis etc-- that's real too!

I used to be an IT tech in a school, and our kids didn't behave that badly! It wasn't a particularly well off area either, plenty of council housing. They called me sir! Actually I think they were ruder to the teachers. I'm a very easy going and friendly person and never got anyone into trouble. I was walking along with the deputy head one day and two boys said a bunch of swearwords, then noticed us both. I yelled "mind your f---ing language!" (without the ---) and the deputy was speechless.

I know that non-teachers don't get exposed at the level that I do, but I just hope you are grateful for the teachers on the front lines of nastiness who ask kids to wash their hands periodically....

Actually if I had kids I'd home school them. School is too full of pointless lessons.

I get sick maybe 1x a year (including colds).

Same here, but I attribute it to being healthy. I swim outdoors in winter. It works for the Scandinavians and Russians, not sure why. Boosts your immune system somehow.

I kid you not when I say that a kid with hepatitis, literally look a chewed caramel out of her mouth and put it in mine to be nice....At the same time, I have a healthy co-worker who now has a collapsed lung... young...from illness..

Ugh! I would never have done that as a kid without a disease!

People have died (pre-covid) from the stuff I am describing-- people who were healthy....So just try not to get too confident, when I lived in India, even kids who grew up drinking nasty water literally died from it at times....the same water I also have consumed. It can be really serious.

Yeah well I'm not in contact with all the stuff you are!

I'm on a different rant now LOL but I just want you to understand that parrots in homes=unnatural and they do not have the same built-in immunity (due to stress/lack of exposure to native bacteria etc)...And then, on top of that, parrots, but also people can die from stuff if you miscalculate..

Generally they live a lot longer in captivity. So we're doing something right.

Your parrots may SEEM fine, but they can make others sick, but they can also spread illness in droppings, feather dust etc. It's important to be more cautious-- the things you said about zinc are quite concerning, but each to his own.

What concerns you about me and zinc? My vet says the amount in their blood is almost zero, so nothing to worry about. He told me the level they call dangerous, and mine were a tiny fraction of that.

 

[noodles123]

I STILL do most of those things (minus the smelly mud-spa..hard to find the time... haha) --- yes, but I always wash hands before eating---I do this as soon as I walk in, because I get spit in my mouth and eyes on a near-daily basis (because a kid who turns to cough away from people, will always cough on the teacher lol!). SURE, kids shove everything into their mouths, but if we are talking older kids, of course I ask them to wash before eating (especially in the current climate)- If you spent the time I have spent teaching kids, you'd know to wash your hands....I have seen things that would make your blood run cold-- I kid you not. Unmentionable body parts on drinking fountain spouts...tongues dragged across the entire frozen food aisle...so many hands in pants and everywhere else..and hepatitis etc-- that's real too!

I used to be an IT tech in a school, and our kids didn't behave that badly! It wasn't a particularly well off area either, plenty of council housing. They called me sir! Actually I think they were ruder to the teachers. I'm a very easy going and friendly person and never got anyone into trouble. I was walking along with the deputy head one day and two boys said a bunch of swearwords, then noticed us both. I yelled "mind your f---ing language!" (without the ---) and the deputy was speechless.

I know that non-teachers don't get exposed at the level that I do, but I just hope you are grateful for the teachers on the front lines of nastiness who ask kids to wash their hands periodically....

Actually if I had kids I'd home school them. School is too full of pointless lessons.

Same here, but I attribute it to being healthy. I swim outdoors in winter. It works for the Scandinavians and Russians, not sure why. Boosts your immune system somehow.

Ugh! I would never have done that as a kid without a disease!

Yeah well I'm not in contact with all the stuff you are!

I'm on a different rant now LOL but I just want you to understand that parrots in homes=unnatural and they do not have the same built-in immunity (due to stress/lack of exposure to native bacteria etc)...And then, on top of that, parrots, but also people can die from stuff if you miscalculate..

Generally they live a lot longer in captivity. So we're doing something right.

Your parrots may SEEM fine, but they can make others sick, but they can also spread illness in droppings, feather dust etc. It's important to be more cautious-- the things you said about zinc are quite concerning, but each to his own.

What concerns you about me and zinc? My vet says the amount in their blood is almost zero, so nothing to worry about. He told me the level they call dangerous, and mine were a tiny fraction of that.

I'm not telling you you can't take some risks- but parrots are sensitive-- very..And I love mine so much, that I would feel very guilty if things when wrong...I am very cautious already, but we have already had a few dangerous situations (despite precautions).


Lol-- funny you mention outdoor swimming because about 1 hour before I replied to this post, I had been Googling swimming temperatures and shock. The coldest I have gone without a wet suit was 50 f in Galway Bay with a 58 degree f air temp and that felt super cold!


I guess I'd just say that COVID started with one person (probably far from where you are) and spread like crazy. Hand-washing is not bad--- you can still be a healthy person and wash hands without ruining natural immunity/exposure.



For parrots, so many die in captivity due to human causes or diagnosed illness, so yeah, while the wild may be harsher, the same could be said of humans---there are people in very poor areas living to be 30 -50 years and that's fine(?), but not their potential...it could be much better


The thing is, humans often kill parrots by mistake, as our environments are so contrary to theirs...Heck, we have gram negative bacteria in our saliva, we live in houses full of chemicals and they have access to all of this toxic stuff that they wouldn't in the wild.


Zinc poisoning is also a real threat to captive parrots, given their level of potential exposure in captivity.

 

[Ira7]

Many, many species can handle very cold temps. It’s the drafts that make them sick.

Now Michigan...that’s a different story.

 

[SailBoat]

Hmmm, seen this kind of gaming before...

Parrots are a very fragile creatures, take great care not to forget that singular point as you continue your journey.

 

[fiddlejen]

I'm looking for a way for my birds to have a heated indoor area, and an outside area, which they can go between by themselves, but without the expense of all the heat going through an open hole. A cat flap is the perfect solution for cats, but what do we use for birds? Would they use a catflap? Is there anything they would prefer?

I get the impression from your other posts that you already have the outside aviary, where your birds live mostly. And also your birds currently need human intervention to come inside, but you'd like them to be able to enter freely. Is that right?

Seems to me that a pet-flap -TYPE- installation probably is indeed best idea.

BAsically you want to install a window-frame large enough for your bird(s) to pass thru, made of a bird-safe wood. Then instead of a glass window you want to fill that frame with some type of bird-Safe but bird-Manipulable material which they can open to pass thru, and which will self-close behind them. Right?

I think it sounds like a great plan. If you find a pet-flap of the right size, and can verify the materials with the mfg, that's probably the easiest way to go. But otherwise if you are handy, or if you know & can afford reliable contractors, seems like it should work fine.

 

[noodles123]

How would you keep other animals from getting in as well? Would the flap be elevated or would if require them to walk on the ground? Would there still be a safe/comfortable area for them outside in the event that the door didn't work or something?

 

[hucker]

I'm not telling you you can't take some risks- but parrots are sensitive-- very..And I love mine so much, that I would feel very guilty if things when wrong...I am very cautious already, but we have already had a few dangerous situations (despite precautions).

It doesn't matter what you're careful with, there's always something you forget. I've even rewired my microwave to remove the earth (earths are extremely dangerous as they provide a completed circuit, in a parrot's case through the feet with the beak on the live) as one kept chewing the cable.

Lol-- funny you mention outdoor swimming because about 1 hour before I replied to this post, I had been Googling swimming temperatures and shock.

Shock indeed. So what if you scream like a girl, it won't kill you. I don't by the way, I just take in a gasp of air and enjoy it.

The coldest I have gone without a wet suit was 50 f in Galway Bay with a 58 degree f air temp and that felt super cold!

Wow, you think 10C is cold?! That's halfway to room temperature! Not even cold enough to make your teeth chatter.

I never wear a wet or dry suit. I call them wimpsuits.

I guess I'd just say that COVID started with one person (probably far from where you are) and spread like crazy. Hand-washing is not bad--- you can still be a healthy person and wash hands without ruining natural immunity/exposure.

Washing your hands all the time means your immune system never gets any exercise. It's actually very bad.

For parrots, so many die in captivity due to human causes or diagnosed illness, so yeah, while the wild may be harsher, the same could be said of humans---there are people in very poor areas living to be 30 -50 years and that's fine(?), but not their potential...it could be much better

You can't win them all. But if we advance science enough we should all live forever. While life has a finite time, I don't see the point in taking that much care over protecting it.

The thing is, humans often kill parrots by mistake, as our environments are so contrary to theirs...Heck, we have gram negative bacteria in our saliva, we live in houses full of chemicals and they have access to all of this toxic stuff that they wouldn't in the wild.

Yeah well I don't let them get into cupboards full of bleach! But we do share food which people say is bad for them. I've never had a problem with that.

Zinc poisoning is also a real threat to captive parrots, given their level of potential exposure in captivity.

I'm assuming from badly made things. You can zinc plate or you can galvanise. The plating comes off by rubbing. Mine have nothing like the toxic levels according to the vet, despite being in a galvanised aviary all the time.

 

[hucker]

Many, many species can handle very cold temps. It’s the drafts that make them sick.

Now Michigan...that’s a different story.

I assume you're referring to wind chill.