Coconut's Flying lessons....

[Tropical]

I made a spare of the moment video of Coconut's flying lessons... when I say "Go Fly" he kind of knows that means go fly He flies pretty fast now back and forth... good practice. He's improved tremendously but still needs a lot more experience before I ever let Rascal out while Coconut is out cuz Rascal spooks all the time and I don't want Coconut to have another serious accident! I'm confident in Coconut flying by himself .... so long as Rascal is in lock down haha.

[ame="https://youtu.be/tw2QqiDj7ss"]Coconut's fly lessons.... - YouTube[/ame]

 

[GaleriaGila]

*sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*
How would it be, to have a trained bird?

 

[Tropical]

*sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*
How would it be, to have a trained bird?

I used to have hold a long stick near him to make him fly. When he sees the stick go towards him he flys away. I would always say "go fly" and eventually he learned to fly without me sticking that stick near him hehe

Rascal on the other hand is SUPER lazy and will not fly at all without me making him fly (his favorite sport is sleeping!... and he couldn't care less about the command "go fly" LOL)). Good healthy much needed exercise for them... in the wild they would be flying all throughout the day.... they need to move their butts! Cardio is so important not only for them... but me also

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Wow..'Nut really zooms doesn't he? lol..Still waiting on BB to get airborne

Jim

 

[Tropical]

Wow..'Nut really zooms doesn't he? lol..Still waiting on BB to get airborne

Jim

In one pic of BB recently I saw he has at least one flight feather? He still only has that one flight feather? It was very long flight feather!

Poor BB... he already has at least one flight feather so the rest should be sprouting in soon very fast Hopefully

I would love to see a pic of what he looks like now... I wanna see what his flight feather progress looks like.... =)

EDIT: LOL yeah 'Nut was flying so fast I was out of breath "jeez he's fast" I kept mumbling and couldn't even catch his flight in video frame haha... but Rascal still flys much faster than Coconut.

 

[Anansi]

Beautiful home you have there! And Coconut is making full use of the ample flying space. Nice! Has he been recall trained as well?

 

[Tropical]

Beautiful home you have there! And Coconut is making full use of the ample flying space. Nice! Has he been recall trained as well?

Thanks My home is actually a massive mess… trust me on that one you can’t tell on video but it DESPERATELY needs to be gutted and renovated if you saw more up close you would totally know what I mean. The kitchen cabinets and tiled counter with HUGE (half inch) crusty grout lines are REALLY gross and decayed (it’s VERY old and I lose my appetite when standing in kitchen because it’s all decayed, warped and nasty which is sad because I would LOVE to be in nice kitchen making food). The bathrooms are SUPER gross as well... so much so that I dread using them! I hope to be able to gut this house when I can afford to (remove popcorn ceilings and gut both bathrooms and kitchen and fix the floors/baseboards). I will post before/after if I can manage to HOPEFULLY get it done.

Coconut flys to me when called about 90% of the time… from “recall”… it looks like that means I train him to fly to me and then he must fly back to where he was? He doesn't know how to do that. I wish tiels were like conures in the way conures seem much easier to be able to train! … but Coconut is making progress

 

[Anansi]

...Coconut flys to me when called about 90% of the time… from “recall”… it looks like that means I train him to fly to me and then he must fly back to where he was? He doesn't know how to do that. I wish tiels were like conures in the way conures seem much easier to be able to train! … but Coconut is making progress

I bet Coconut is making quite a bit of progress. And your persistence in his training will ensure he continues to learn even more.

Nah, cockatiels are just as capable of mastering recall as is any conure. Just view recall training as a natural evolution of target training. Same skill set, really. Just have him walk from one side of a training perch to another, initially, rewarding him each time he goes where you point. Once he's become reliable with that, have him step off one training perch to the next. Once he's reliable with that, begin increasing the distance between them.

Now, I realize that what I just described greatly resembles what I've said in the past about teaching parrots flight skills. So why do that when your guy is already flying quite proficiently around your home? Because the goal here is to get him accustomed to going wherever you point, and associating that action with praise and tasty treats. As the distance widens, his focus will be on the treat. He'll come to view going where you ask as a wonderful thing in and of itself, simply due to the strength of association.

With Jolly, for instance, when we're doing flight drills he is visibly eager for my next direction. He does the little excitement dance as he waits, because he knows he won't get rewarded for leaving my shoulder before I ask him to do so... but he's anticipating what he'll get once he does as I ask. I no longer have to show him the treat to elicit this level of excitement. He has now firmly associated the exercise with the treat itself, regardless of whether he can see said treat or not.

Basically, I'm just saying to keep at it. Even if his learning seems to have stalled. Because once the association is made, you'll be surprised at what he'll be able to pick up.

 

[Tropical]

...Coconut flys to me when called about 90% of the time… from “recall”… it looks like that means I train him to fly to me and then he must fly back to where he was? He doesn't know how to do that. I wish tiels were like conures in the way conures seem much easier to be able to train! … but Coconut is making progress

I bet Coconut is making quite a bit of progress. And your persistence in his training will ensure he continues to learn even more.

Nah, cockatiels are just as capable of mastering recall as is any conure. Just view recall training as a natural evolution of target training. Same skill set, really. Just have him walk from one side of a training perch to another, initially, rewarding him each time he goes where you point. Once he's become reliable with that, have him step off one training perch to the next. Once he's reliable with that, begin increasing the distance between them.

Now, I realize that what I just described greatly resembles what I've said in the past about teaching parrots flight skills. So why do that when your guy is already flying quite proficiently around your home? Because the goal here is to get him accustomed to going wherever you point, and associating that action with praise and tasty treats. As the distance widens, his focus will be on the treat. He'll come to view going where you ask as a wonderful thing in and of itself, simply due to the strength of association.

With Jolly, for instance, when we're doing flight drills he is visibly eager for my next direction. He does the little excitement dance as he waits, because he knows he won't get rewarded for leaving my shoulder before I ask him to do so... but he's anticipating what he'll get once he does as I ask. I no longer have to show him the treat to elicit this level of excitement. He has now firmly associated the exercise with the treat itself, regardless of whether he can see said treat or not.

Basically, I'm just saying to keep at it. Even if his learning seems to have stalled. Because once the association is made, you'll be surprised at what he'll be able to pick up.

Thanks for the tips! Do you think I should start using a clicker for Coconut and that it would make it easier? I actually have a clicker I bought 4 yrs ago for Rascal but I never used it.

Here's a video of me exercising Rascal which really shows the difference between Rascal and Coconut (they really are complete opposites in every way). Coconut likes to fly more than Rascal and will actually fly a little on his own and also when I say "go fly!"... but NOT Rascal he would rather just continue taking an all day nap! LOL

[ame="https://youtu.be/boENbb-NCj8"]Lazy Rascal! Wants to sleep all day and not move. - YouTube[/ame]

I know it might look kind of "mean" (or maybe I just look like a nutcase? LOL) with me ordering him around with a stick but Rascal would NEVER exercise if I didn't encourage him to and that's not healthy. I really do this just to get him some cardio. He's not afraid of that stick and will step up on it if I let him... but I never do as it's his cue to fly since he IGNORES my "go fly" command and it's been 4 years so I gave up and have resorted to just chasing him around with a stick (ok LOL I know that doesn't sound good)... but he won't accept any treats unlike Coconut he's strange bird... or I'm lousy at training birds? LOL I don't know (I exercise him few times day)... sometimes Rascal flies few rounds around house but didn't do it in above video.

I need to get some sort of perch stand so I can try teaching Coconut recall between two perches So far I've been having a MUCH easier time training Coconut than Rascal

 

[Anansi]

When it comes to the clicker, I think it really comes down to personal preference. I used to clicker train and I did find it to be a very effective tool, but honestly I too often found myself in a situation where one of my birds did something wonderful and I'd left my clicker in the other room or something. And a late click is worse than no click at all. So eventually I stopped using the clicker as my positive reinforcement bridge and just used my enthusiastic praise voice, instead. As long as you use the same words and tone of voice each time, and remain as disciplined about when exactly you praise the action, I find it every bit as effective. But again, that's a matter of personal preference.

As for the video, I can see that he's not acting out of fear of the stick. So no, it doesn't look as bad as it initially sounds. Both birds obviously love you and do not see the stick as a threat.

Buuuuuuuuut...

I'm honestly not a big fan of the style you are using, either. I do appreciate your motivation. Regular exercise does make for a healthier bird, and I think it's great that you are so motivated to make that happen. I'd just tackle it from a different angle.

You may or may not realize this, but you are actually employing an alternate training method known as the negative reinforcement model of operant conditioning. (If you'd like to learn about this in greater detail than I'll go into here, just research BF Skinner's theory of operant conditioning.) But basically, you are teaching and strengthening a desired behavior by either removing an aversive stimulus (your stick) or avoiding a negative outcome.

This method involves association, as does the more positive reinforcement inclined technique I described to you earlier for target training, but instead of associating a desired behavior with a positive result (the treat and praise), you have created an association between a desired behavior and the cessation of an aversive stimulus. As you have proven, this method can get results. But I believe it to be less effective in the long run, as it is limited. (Case in point: your birds are performing the desired behavior, but your stick is required more often than not.) Not to mention that, at best, it does nothing to strengthen the bond between you and your bird.

Positive reinforcement, on the other hand, does build upon the relationship between you and your bird. He becomes filled with excitement because training with you means special treats and making you extra happy. The praise, in and of itself, becomes more than just a bridge to the treat. It becomes a reinforcing agent in and of itself. And your bird is associating treats and your excited behavior with doing as you ask. He is performing the desired behavior to achieve a desirable outcome. So you have basically created a scenario in which you both want the same thing, albeit for different reasons. A cooperative effort. You just don't get that with negative reinforcement. Know what I mean?

Understand, btw, that I'm not saying I exclusively use positive reinforcement. But I do use it maybe 90-95% of the time. I do use punishment as well (in the now rare instances where necessary). Specifically timeouts. But that is in response to an undesirable behavior, such as uncomfortable bite pressure or flying to a restricted place. But even then, I seek to reward the opposite, desired behavior when it does occur.

 

[Tropical]

When it comes to the clicker, I think it really comes down to personal preference. I used to clicker train and I did find it to be a very effective tool, but honestly I too often found myself in a situation where one of my birds did something wonderful and I'd left my clicker in the other room or something. And a late click is worse than no click at all. So eventually I stopped using the clicker as my positive reinforcement bridge and just used my enthusiastic praise voice, instead. As long as you use the same words and tone of voice each time, and remain as disciplined about when exactly you praise the action, I find it every bit as effective. But again, that's a matter of personal preference.

As for the video, I can see that he's not acting out of fear of the stick. So no, it doesn't look as bad as it initially sounds. Both birds obviously love you and do not see the stick as a threat.

Buuuuuuuuut...

I'm honestly not a big fan of the style you are using, either. I do appreciate your motivation. Regular exercise does make for a healthier bird, and I think it's great that you are so motivated to make that happen. I'd just tackle it from a different angle.

You may or may not realize this, but you are actually employing an alternate training method known as the negative reinforcement model of operant conditioning. (If you'd like to learn about this in greater detail than I'll go into here, just research BF Skinner's theory of operant conditioning.) But basically, you are teaching and strengthening a desired behavior by either removing an aversive stimulus (your stick) or avoiding a negative outcome.

This method involves association, as does the more positive reinforcement inclined technique I described to you earlier for target training, but instead of associating a desired behavior with a positive result (the treat and praise), you have created an association between a desired behavior and the cessation of an aversive stimulus. As you have proven, this method can get results. But I believe it to be less effective in the long run, as it is limited. (Case in point: your birds are performing the desired behavior, but your stick is required more often than not.) Not to mention that, at best, it does nothing to strengthen the bond between you and your bird.

Positive reinforcement, on the other hand, does build upon the relationship between you and your bird. He becomes filled with excitement because training with you means special treats and making you extra happy. The praise, in and of itself, becomes more than just a bridge to the treat. It becomes a reinforcing agent in and of itself. And your bird is associating treats and your excited behavior with doing as you ask. He is performing the desired behavior to achieve a desirable outcome. So you have basically created a scenario in which you both want the same thing, albeit for different reasons. A cooperative effort. You just don't get that with negative reinforcement. Know what I mean?

Understand, btw, that I'm not saying I exclusively use positive reinforcement. But I do use it maybe 90-95% of the time. I do use punishment as well (in the now rare instances where necessary). Specifically timeouts. But that is in response to an undesirable behavior, such as uncomfortable bite pressure or flying to a restricted place. But even then, I seek to reward the opposite, desired behavior when it does occur.

Thanks so much for you taking the time to write such detailed replies. Yes I agree with you 100% and know exactly what you mean... I also think positive reinforcement is best... same way I used to train my dog when I had one (dog was MUCH easier to train LOL).... but I just couldn't get Rascal to fly any other way. Luckily, I'm having completely different experience with Coconut who will fly when I say "go fly" and I sometimes give him a sunflower seed as a treat when he would land after he flew upon my "go fly" command so he understands if he flys when I say "go fly" there will be a treat coming after he completes it. Since they keep flying super high to that window sill I can't reach them at all up there and that's why I initially bought this stick as I don't want them hanging out up there and chewing on any toxic paints etc.

What I've been doing with Coconut doesn't work for Rascal at all though So it's been much easier to just get his exercise over with using the stick so he gets the much needed exercise for his health. It's been like this for 4 yrs so he knows the drill that little bugger . If he could sleep ALL DAY LONG he literally would! He has to be the most laid back lazy tiel in the entire world. His favorite hobby is sleeping on my thigh as I work on my laptop he makes a beeline for my thigh and refuses to stay on my shoulder if I'm sitting down... he demands to be in his designated spot Rascal is very set in his ways...

 

[Tropical]

Coconut just tried to fly back and forth in the house on his own but didn't have the stamina to make it... now he's pooped! Rascal definitely has MUCH more stamina than Coconut that's for sure.

I just had to share this pic... they look so cute when they are tired from flight with their wings drooping outwards... so cute I can't stop staring at him LOL (I have to get this picture framed).

... but now I can finally get some work done haha

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

...Coconut flys to me when called about 90% of the time… from “recall”… it looks like that means I train him to fly to me and then he must fly back to where he was? He doesn't know how to do that. I wish tiels were like conures in the way conures seem much easier to be able to train! … but Coconut is making progress

I bet Coconut is making quite a bit of progress. And your persistence in his training will ensure he continues to learn even more.

Nah, cockatiels are just as capable of mastering recall as is any conure. Just view recall training as a natural evolution of target training. Same skill set, really. Just have him walk from one side of a training perch to another, initially, rewarding him each time he goes where you point. Once he's become reliable with that, have him step off one training perch to the next. Once he's reliable with that, begin increasing the distance between them.

Now, I realize that what I just described greatly resembles what I've said in the past about teaching parrots flight skills. So why do that when your guy is already flying quite proficiently around your home? Because the goal here is to get him accustomed to going wherever you point, and associating that action with praise and tasty treats. As the distance widens, his focus will be on the treat. He'll come to view going where you ask as a wonderful thing in and of itself, simply due to the strength of association.

With Jolly, for instance, when we're doing flight drills he is visibly eager for my next direction. He does the little excitement dance as he waits, because he knows he won't get rewarded for leaving my shoulder before I ask him to do so... but he's anticipating what he'll get once he does as I ask. I no longer have to show him the treat to elicit this level of excitement. He has now firmly associated the exercise with the treat itself, regardless of whether he can see said treat or not.

Basically, I'm just saying to keep at it. Even if his learning seems to have stalled. Because once the association is made, you'll be surprised at what he'll be able to pick up.

Thanks for the tips! Do you think I should start using a clicker for Coconut and that it would make it easier? I actually have a clicker I bought 4 yrs ago for Rascal but I never used it.

Here's a video of me exercising Rascal which really shows the difference between Rascal and Coconut (they really are complete opposites in every way). Coconut likes to fly more than Rascal and will actually fly a little on his own and also when I say "go fly!"... but NOT Rascal he would rather just continue taking an all day nap! LOL

[ame="https://youtu.be/boENbb-NCj8"]Lazy Rascal! Wants to sleep all day and not move. - YouTube[/ame]

I know it might look kind of "mean" (or maybe I just look like a nutcase? LOL) with me ordering him around with a stick but Rascal would NEVER exercise if I didn't encourage him to and that's not healthy. I really do this just to get him some cardio. He's not afraid of that stick and will step up on it if I let him... but I never do as it's his cue to fly since he IGNORES my "go fly" command and it's been 4 years so I gave up and have resorted to just chasing him around with a stick (ok LOL I know that doesn't sound good)... but he won't accept any treats unlike Coconut he's strange bird... or I'm lousy at training birds? LOL I don't know (I exercise him few times day)... sometimes Rascal flies few rounds around house but didn't do it in above video.

I need to get some sort of perch stand so I can try teaching Coconut recall between two perches So far I've been having a MUCH easier time training Coconut than Rascal

Even tho BB isn't "flying" yet,he does come to me when I call him lol..walkwalkwalk..flapflapflap!...runrun..walkwalk..flapflap..lol... I bet when he does start to fly,he'll come to me..all I say is "c'mere BB" and whistle for him..he calls back to me,then,here he comes! He is a smart little guy

Jim