Does Bingo have OCD ?

[texsize90]

It has taken me a long time to catch this on video.

Bingo does this fairly often but by the time I unlock my phone, open the camera app, and select video, and aim the cellphone he stops doing it.
so this is not a long clip but it gives you the idea.

sometimes he is on a perch.
sometimes he does this on the floor of his cage.

[ame="https://youtu.be/MuOLICPgUvI"]OCD - YouTube[/ame]


What do all you make of it?

 

[Laurasea]

that can be a stylized movement. Usually seen in a creature caged to long or in a small cage.. not saying that's what's going on.

But thst it is simular to that kind of behavior.

I will see what our Amazon people say.

 

[texsize90]

Well I never thought his cage was small for his size.

Sigh... I know I don’t take him out as much as I should but it’s complicated.

Morning is the only safe time for him to come out. But when I talk him out the twins (Luna &Merlin) scream their heads off. This gets others in the house upset
Tried letting twins out at same time. At first this worked but eventually they screamed just as much in/outof the cage.
If I completely cover the twins they will keep quite but I don’t want to do that.


Once my other half is up it becomes dangerous for me to have Bingo out.
I can do it but Bingo is not relaxed. It’s hard to explain but our time together isn’t the same if my wife is in the picture.

 

[Laurasea]

Maybe with training and postive association, you can have them out together. They don't all have to be buddies, just not fight.
Butds can learn to have manners in mixed groups, in a neutral location with lost of perch choices.
Rescues do it, wild flocks do it.

If he is spending all his time caged then changes have to made.
Get creative

When problem solving, don't focus on the why nots, focus on the how to

 

[SailBoat]

Nailed it!

Cage size is appropriate, but time in cage will turn it into a tiny place.

Or, Bingo is practicing the lung /attack move to increase the speed needed to set his bill deep into that soft skin. (that be humor )

 

[texsize90]

I always found it disturbing to see him doing that.

I just had him out to take a shower with me.
He is sitting next to his hot plate warming up.

I guess most of my efforts have been towards Bella and trying to keep her from plucking.

When the weather gets warmer I will make a point of taking Bingo out for walks in the pac O bird. He gets really happy getting outside.

 

[noodles123]

That is stereotypic movement for sure (common in autism and OCD). It likely means that he may need a bit more stimulation and/or is feeling pent up in the cage.

 

[noodles123]

This article is from 2003 and some of the language is a bit out of favor, but it is interesting: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14529811/


another short one
https://www.ufaw.org.uk/small-project-and-travel-awards/stereotypic-behaviour-in-parrots


Informative Wikipedia link on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abnormal_behaviour_of_birds_in_captivity

 

[Laurasea]

As stated by Sailboat, yes the cage is a nice size. But not if they spend all their time in cage, then no cafe is big enough but an aviary is better..
As you know birds unlike dogs are very active , miles of exploration and useing their environment. While dogs both captive and wild spend a lot if time sleeping abd resting like carnivores do.

Foraging helps.

My vet says when parrots have behavior issues you need to aim for 6 hours out of cage time, and more when able.

Some individuals are just less tolerant of being out less.

Its great to talk about and try an address changes. You aren't the only one with issues like this im 100% sure. But you are a good person willing to talk and share the challenges.

 

[Ira7]

Call me crazy, but why do you think what he’s doing is so unusual? Rocking forward and back?

 

[texsize90]

Call me crazy, but why do you think what he’s doing is so unusual? Rocking forward and back?

A couple of things make me see this as disturbing.

First its.....motion for no purpose,

Second I have seen macaws with this behavior and it’s usually the abused/neglected birds that do this.

Third as a child I came very close to OCD behavior (ticks, head jerking, counting when turning on/off wall switches) and find it disturbing to see equivalent behavior in Bingo.

Bingo doesn’t do this all that often. This was the first time I caught it on video.

 

[Ira7]

Call me crazy, but why do you think what he’s doing is so unusual? Rocking forward and back?

A couple of things make me see this as disturbing.

First its.....motion for no purpose,

Second I have seen macaws with this behavior and it’s usually the abused/neglected birds that do this.

Third as a child I came very close to OCD behavior (ticks, head jerking, counting when turning on/off wall switches) and find it disturbing to see equivalent behavior in Bingo.

Bingo doesn’t do this all that often. This was the first time I caught it on video.

Ticks and head jerking are signs of Tourette’s, symptoms of which are on the Autism Spectrum Disorder. (My older son is Asperger’s.) ASD is a developmental disorder, not a mental health issue.

This, however, is a bird.

And if you can find a bird psychiatrist who will claim that a bird can actually suffer from OCD, I’ll listen.

 

[texsize90]

Call me crazy, but why do you think what he’s doing is so unusual? Rocking forward and back?

A couple of things make me see this as disturbing.

First its.....motion for no purpose,

Second I have seen macaws with this behavior and it’s usually the abused/neglected birds that do this.

Third as a child I came very close to OCD behavior (ticks, head jerking, counting when turning on/off wall switches) and find it disturbing to see equivalent behavior in Bingo.

Bingo doesn’t do this all that often. This was the first time I caught it on video.

Ticks and head jerking are signs of Tourette’s, symptoms of which are on the Autism Spectrum Disorder. (My older son is Asperger’s.) ASD is a developmental disorder, not a mental health issue.

This, however, is a bird.

And if you can find a bird psychiatrist who will claim that a bird can actually suffer from OCD, I’ll listen.

What ever I had it was before either term was coined.
I was treated with low dose can’t spell it tranks.
It’s not something that just goes away but I....redirect my impulses in ways that were not obvious to see.

 

[Ira7]

A couple of things make me see this as disturbing.

First its.....motion for no purpose,

Second I have seen macaws with this behavior and it’s usually the abused/neglected birds that do this.

Third as a child I came very close to OCD behavior (ticks, head jerking, counting when turning on/off wall switches) and find it disturbing to see equivalent behavior in Bingo.

Bingo doesn’t do this all that often. This was the first time I caught it on video.

Ticks and head jerking are signs of Tourette’s, symptoms of which are on the Autism Spectrum Disorder. (My older son is Asperger’s.) ASD is a developmental disorder, not a mental health issue.

This, however, is a bird.

And if you can find a bird psychiatrist who will claim that a bird can actually suffer from OCD, I’ll listen.

What ever I had it was before either term was coined.
I was treated with low dose can’t spell it tranks.
It’s not something that just goes away but I....redirect my impulses in ways that were not obvious to see.

You had a physical thing. Neurological. Some symptoms of which a human can SOMETIMES overcome because the human brain is an incredible thing.

Now, it’s entirely possible that birds can suffer neurological illnesses from birth, resulting in developmental disorders or certain symptoms, but if I was betting the house in Vegas...I would just chalk this up to the fact that he’s entertaining himself, especially since he just does this now and then. But look:

I’m not a bird neurologist or bird psychiatrist. I just play one on TV.

 

[Laurasea]

These stylised, repetitive behavior, is caused by being kept in a cage , kept from doing normal behavior, from moving, from making choices. It used to be seen way more often when animals were kept in bare small enclosure like at zoos.

For Bingo, being in the cage all tge time, is having a negative effect on him. He as an individual need more stimulation, more time out, more enrichment and stimulation. It's also why the over preening.

I thought we made that clear, while still trying to be nice. But I will be extra clear , this parrot need more. it need more time out of the cage, it needs help st this point to engage more with the environment, im sure he is also shutting down, so you might say oh well he doesn't do anything. Thsts because tgey retreat into their minds. You actually have to help rehabilitat them, to reconnect thrm . To get lots of stimulation sbd foraging, abd exercise.

A parrot is too smart to active, some individuals can't cope as well with hours abd hours sbd dsys abd dsys of just sitting in the cage. Even a large cage simply isn't enough.

We call this benign neglect .

But it isn't benign,

Their are always excuses, but there are also always work around too.
To me if his needs can't be met, then rehome him would be kinder. Than to spend more years sitting in a cage. Next to a gmhaloy pair bonded partots who get to get out.

When they do these repetitive behaviors it releases endorphins,
The brain is trying to medicate itself.
Because the normal endorphins from exercise, from play, from social contact aren't getting released.


" the captive environment does not fully cater for the species-specific needs of an animal, or if it imposes unnatural stress or frustration, there can be a deterioration in the animal’s physical and mental health. This may manifest in the development of physical disease or abnormal behaviour."

https://www.bornfree.org.uk/zoochosis

 

[texsize90]

These stylised, repetitive behavior, is caused by being kept in a cage , kept from doing normal behavior, from moving, from making choices. It used to be seen way more often when animals were kept in bare small enclosure like at zoos.

For Bingo, being in the cage all tge time, is having a negative effect on him. He as an individual need more stimulation, more time out, more enrichment and stimulation. It's also why the over preening.

I thought we made that clear, while still trying to be nice. But I will be extra clear , this parrot need more. it need more time out of the cage, it needs help st this point to engage more with the environment, im sure he is also shutting down, so you might say oh well he doesn't do anything. Thsts because tgey retreat into their minds. You actually have to help rehabilitat them, to reconnect thrm . To get lots of stimulation sbd foraging, abd exercise.

A parrot is too smart to active, some individuals can't cope as well with hours abd hours sbd dsys abd dsys of just sitting in the cage. Even a large cage simply isn't enough.

We call this benign neglect .



https://www.bornfree.org.uk/zoochosis

I am making sure he gets out of cage time twice a day.
Sometimes he rides my shoulder. This is tricky right now as his nails were trimmed and he can’t hold on good.
Sometimes he sits with me and gets scratches.
Sometimes he wants to climb around the cages.
Sometimes he sits in the window.

I have tried 2 different foriging toys with no luck.

I ha rearranged his food and water dishes. Now his food dish is on the side of the cage that is close to the twins cage and food dishes. They can now eat together more/less.

I THINK he is spending less time over grooming that one area but the feathers are already damaged so it may take a while for the feathers to show improvement.

Ira7 and I are only arguing about semantics, not the overall problem.

 

[noodles123]

These stylised, repetitive behavior, is caused by being kept in a cage , kept from doing normal behavior, from moving, from making choices. It used to be seen way more often when animals were kept in bare small enclosure like at zoos.

For Bingo, being in the cage all tge time, is having a negative effect on him. He as an individual need more stimulation, more time out, more enrichment and stimulation. It's also why the over preening.

I thought we made that clear, while still trying to be nice. But I will be extra clear , this parrot need more. it need more time out of the cage, it needs help st this point to engage more with the environment, im sure he is also shutting down, so you might say oh well he doesn't do anything. Thsts because tgey retreat into their minds. You actually have to help rehabilitat them, to reconnect thrm . To get lots of stimulation sbd foraging, abd exercise.

A parrot is too smart to active, some individuals can't cope as well with hours abd hours sbd dsys abd dsys of just sitting in the cage. Even a large cage simply isn't enough.

We call this benign neglect .



https://www.bornfree.org.uk/zoochosis

I am making sure he gets out of cage time twice a day.
Sometimes he rides my shoulder. This is tricky right now as his nails were trimmed and he can’t hold on good.
Sometimes he sits with me and gets scratches.
Sometimes he wants to climb around the cages.
Sometimes he sits in the window.

I have tried 2 different foriging toys with no luck.

I ha rearranged his food and water dishes. Now his food dish is on the side of the cage that is close to the twins cage and food dishes. They can now eat together more/less.

I THINK he is spending less time over grooming that one area but the feathers are already damaged so it may take a while for the feathers to show improvement.

Ira7 and I are only arguing about semantics, not the overall problem.

As humans, we face an incredible difficulty (impossibility, honestly) when it comes to trying to make our homes acceptable for birds hard-wired to do the opposite of what they do in captivity. Even a mansion is too small for a bird, so all you can do is your very best, but I have been trying to explain this for a long time---I often feel like I fall short, because I am not 40 miles of wilderness with other birds in a cleaner air-space. The bright spot is, your home (while imperfect) is still probably a lot better than many alternatives. Keep trying new toys, keep trying new foods, keep trying in general and know that if you can control anxiety (via routine etc) while providing adequate sleep, enrichment and time to fly etc, this could pass. If it doesn't as long as it doesn't get worse, it isn't something to freak out over (unless it progresses), but it is certainly an illustration of a common issue in captive parrots. This doesn't mean that a small cage is okay or anything-- big as you can (within minimums recommended by CAVS).


It isn't something to give up on, but it does shed light on the reality of captivity. Pretty much all birds do weird stuff that would be abnormal for them in the wild when in a captive setting.


Noodles used to over-preen her chest and as we got closer. that diminished. That isn't to say that it goes away--- when she is stressed or feels neglected, I will find a pile of down feathers, but thankfully, that has reduced significantly over the years *KNOCK ON WOOD!!!!*

 

[noodles123]

Ticks and head jerking are signs of Tourette’s, symptoms of which are on the Autism Spectrum Disorder. (My older son is Asperger’s.) ASD is a developmental disorder, not a mental health issue.

This, however, is a bird.

And if you can find a bird psychiatrist who will claim that a bird can actually suffer from OCD, I’ll listen.

What ever I had it was before either term was coined.
I was treated with low dose can’t spell it tranks.
It’s not something that just goes away but I....redirect my impulses in ways that were not obvious to see.

You had a physical thing. Neurological. Some symptoms of which a human can SOMETIMES overcome because the human brain is an incredible thing.

Now, it’s entirely possible that birds can suffer neurological illnesses from birth, resulting in developmental disorders or certain symptoms, but if I was betting the house in Vegas...I would just chalk this up to the fact that he’s entertaining himself, especially since he just does this now and then. But look:

I’m not a bird neurologist or bird psychiatrist. I just play one on TV.

Physical manifestations of OCD are mental /chemical-- even if they manifest physically. The rituals etc calm certain centers of the brain and create feedback loops. Just because it looks physical, doesn't mean it is physical. If you think about something like anorexia, which is also rooted in chemicals, hormones, feedback loops etc (and shares a lot with OCD) it comes off as a physical manifestation, but the behavior is much more complicated than that. If someone has uncontrolled OCD, not doing the habits can make it feel like they are drowning and unable to get that breath of air)..and it has a lot to do with serotonin etc (if they physically do not to the behavior, the brain will try to force them to find a way to get that hit of chemicals it needs). The issue that must be addressed is both chemical and behavioral, but an obsessive behavior doesn't mean conscious choice to do it (at least, not entirely-- it is like a self-medication/coping skill that takes over at a brain level, without true consent (more like, acceptance), until it takes over and the person or animal feels compelled to engage). Your brain can hi-jack your body when your chemicals are off and if that happens, it can be very hard to break a "habit" (understatement) without chemical intervention.
A highly anxious body will be more likely to cope via OCD, which is why for children and birds, physical work and mental exertion matters. It can keep the brain from trying to solve problems that aren't there. When you have too much time and too little physical activity, coupled with a unique brain, there is no telling what your brain might do to try and compensate(an office job, sitting at school for 8 hours, not doing tangible work= not natural, but the norm in our society). You could have the most money and the calmest parents, but brains need what they need and our lives are so fashioned to fit social standards (without consideration towards the body/brain).
Neither humans, nor birds, are designed to live in this word that we have created, so we all have to make the best of it, but humans struggle too (9-5 at an office is far from natural and leads to increased stress/anxiety because our physical needs for work/exertion and rest are not being met). It's all very unnatural and OCD is a pretty common response to extreme stress, anxiety, boredom etc--- it is a way to regulate the brain and reduce stress while gratifying the system.

 

[Scott]

I note a number of "OCD" type behaviors that are benign if not amusing.

Gabby will sometimes place an edamame pod in claw with another bit of food he actually eats. Takes a bite, swallows, moves beak to tap the edamame, rinse and repeat. Once consumed, the edamame pod is discarded.

When water bowls are changed and brought to the bird room, I'l hold them and approach a few of the birds to offer clean, cold water. Peanut takes a few beakfulls, taps her beak on the side of bowl, returns for more. Rinse and repeat! She never does this when drinking from the bowl in cage receptacle!

 

[noodles123]

I note a number of "OCD" type behaviors that are benign if not amusing.

Gabby will sometimes place an edamame pod in claw with another bit of food he actually eats. Takes a bite, swallows, moves beak to tap the edamame, rinse and repeat. Once consumed, the edamame pod is discarded.

When water bowls are changed and brought to the bird room, I'l hold them and approach a few of the birds to offer clean, cold water. Peanut takes a few beakfulls, taps her beak on the side of bowl, returns for more. Rinse and repeat! She never does this when drinking from the bowl in cage receptacle!

In a chaotic world/brain and a very unnatural environment, ritual is the only thing that is predictable and safe. I see it in kids, parrots, other adults and myself (and while I hate surprises, I am not very type-a at all). ! I know I had some OCD things that I did as a kid (unnoticed by others) and, as an adult, I have found that if I do some serious physical labor, I am far less likely to feel the need to fixate. If your bird continues to progress with this behavior, you might consider something in very small doses like doxepine or something (to help chemically), but do consider the physical activity, as that has been very helpful to me as a human, as well as parrots.