Dogs and 4 month Old Amazon - Advice Please

MangoMexicanRedHead

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Mexican Red Head Amazon
Hi everyone. I'm in my first week of having an Amazon. Although I have had parrots before with a dog...a big dog, it's been a long time. I currently have 2 small dogs that are extremely curious and chase lizards, snakes and squirrels. Mango the amazon arrived last week. It was like a UFO landed in the living room. I'm super fortunate that Mango is quite relaxed as a baby but the dogs need to learn not to come around. I have purchased an electric puck that when placed by the cage and they come too close they get a warning and if they don't step away they get zapped. So far they are just trying to figure this out. I kind of feel bad for them as it looks like they are super scared. I had a situation where Mango flew to the ground the other day and they both went running towards him. Very concerned so that is why the puck is near the cage now. I don't want the dogs near him. How long did it take others to have their dogs get used to the dogs? These are the dogs...darn cute but I don't trust them.
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Sorry friend but some dogs just have that hunting instinct so strongly ingrained, I would never trust them around a parrot. Our dog a Cairne terrier, was deathy afraid of our amazon and would run and hide when he was out of cage. My daughters small dog, some designer breed, would NEVER stop trying to get into his cage, to the point where we could not doggy-sit for her anymore.
 
I knew someone with a budgie and shit-zu. She left the room and the dog killed the budgie in seconds. There was blood everywhere. It was very graphic and traumatizing.
 
They are highly responsive to the ecollar...as you can see. Each day it gets better. The first day they were standing on two feet looking into the cage. We are getting training this week and I think they will understand. Mango is out on the perch and the pups are relaxed on the couch. Big change in the house and they will learn....of course I would never leave them unsupervised. I do think there is a big difference between a dog that comes over and is not used to the parrot vs the dogs that live there.
 
It will take time. Some dogs never adjust. No matter what. The urge to chase is too strong. If possible create an area around cage where dog isn't within jumping, sniffing distance. Pick a command, mine is; leave it. When they do something wrong use this command. It doesn't matter what they are doing wrong. Then immediately put them in a time out zone that is their safe place. Leave them there at least 3 minutes but not more then 10. My dogs are kennel trained. That is their voluntary go to for naps, quite time etc. The command must trigger an automatic stop and do not move response. In addition to your device (I used similar for daughter's dog) use this command before they touch device. Don't depend 100% on it. For safety confine or leash dogs for out of cage time. Some dogs just have a strong chase response. They will never be trustworthy. Caution and awareness are your best choices. You'll need to be aware that this applies to parrots too. Some will lure dog or cat close. Mine does it to get them in bite or hacking range. Others may feed dog.
 
It will take time. Some dogs never adjust. No matter what. The urge to chase is too strong. If possible create an area around cage where dog isn't within jumping, sniffing distance. Pick a command, mine is; leave it. When they do something wrong use this command. It doesn't matter what they are doing wrong. Then immediately put them in a time out zone that is their safe place. Leave them there at least 3 minutes but not more then 10. My dogs are kennel trained. That is their voluntary go to for naps, quite time etc. The command must trigger an automatic stop and do not move response. In addition to your device (I used similar for daughter's dog) use this command before they touch device. Don't depend 100% on it. For safety confine or leash dogs for out of cage time. Some dogs just have a strong chase response. They will never be trustworthy. Caution and awareness are your best choices. You'll need to be aware that this applies to parrots too. Some will lure dog or cat close. Mine does it to get them in bite or hacking range. Others may feed dog.
Thank you....this is good advise. I will need to always be on alert and my dogs are crate trained.
 
Welcome to the forums and congrats on your new baby!

I have three dogs, 4 until I recently lost one earlier this year. Some of my dogs I’m able to leave out with my birds because they are very old - 14+ - and low prey drive. One of my dogs is young with very high prey drive and is never allowed near the birds - ever. If the birds are out, he’s separated in another room. I have baby gates and curtains to prevent the birds from flying into that room.

Personally, I don’t like the shock puck. I believe in positive reinforcement training. I think if anything this is going to make your dogs afraid of the bird and more likely to have very negative associations with him. And there is no guarantee prey drive won’t take over despite the puck. For now, they need to be separated when your bird is out. It’s more manageable then you might think.

Eventually, you could work with your dogs to be safer around the bird but it will always be a risk and will require a lot of training and time. They would need perfect recall.
 
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Welcome to the forums and congrats on your new baby!

I have three dogs, 4 until I recently lost one earlier this year. Some of my dogs I’m able to leave out with my birds because they are very old - 14+ - and low prey drive. One of my dogs is young with very high prey drive and is never allowed near the birds - ever. If the birds are out, he’s separated in another room. I have baby gates and curtains to prevent the birds from flying into that room.

Personally, I don’t like the shock puck. I believe in positive reinforcement training. I think if anything this is going to make your dogs afraid of the bird and more likely to have very negative associations with him. And there is no guarantee prey drive won’t take over despite the puck. For now, they need to be separated when your bird is out. It’s more manageable then you might think.

Eventually, you could work with your dogs to be safer around the bird but it will always be a risk and will require a lot of training and time. They would need perfect recall
I agree on the puck...it's scary for them. There is a feature that just makes a beep. I am going to be working with a trainer as well. Thank you for your comment.
 
Congrats on your cute new Amazon! Birds and dogs do require diligence. I agree with teaching a “ leave it” command. My dog knows this and it’s useful in many circumstances. You can train “ leave it” using lots of different high value items; toys, food etc. Gently block the high value item with your hand and say “ leave it.” As soon as the dog stops trying to get at the item and looks at you, give a praise command ( I say “ yes!”) and give a small food reward. Do this consistently until the dog understands the command and then slowly build distance. Eventually, you should be able to say “ leave it” from across the room and the dog will automatically leave whatever they’re interested in and come to you. Hopefully the trainer will cover this in detail for you.

The shock puck will work ONLY if the dogs understand WHY they are getting shocked. This is another place where teaching a “ leave it” command is useful. If the dogs head towards the bird, you give them the command you’ve taught them to “ leave it” and they don’t listen, then bam, the shock and they recognize there is a consequence for not listening. Again, something you could address with the trainer.

My dog has been taught to ignore the birds completely. If they land by her ( very rarely happens) she gets up and leaves the room which is exactly what I want her to do. I have lost a bird to a visiting dog so all dogs that aren’t mine do not ever have access to the birds.
Best of luck and I hope you find a way for everyone to safely and happily coexist ❤️
 
I wouldn't trust any dog with my budgies out in the room which is all day every day. Reality isnt like YouTube and TikTok videos where parrots and dogs live in complete harmony. The risk may be low with a very well trained dog but a dog could kill any bird so quickly even with just grabbing it in his mouth or paws without meaning to kill it. There's no room for even a one time mistake here. A fearless parrot may tease the dog and challenge it to come closer. It's just a dangerous combination and I discourage anyone with (indoor mostly) dogs from getting birds. It only takes ONE mistake and your bird will be dead.
How would you feel if that happened to your new Amazon? Watching your bird get killed or finding the remains would be so horrible, and ultimately, it would be YOUR fault for trusting a dog to control its natural instincts. The horror of it all would be something you would never forget.

Post picture of your Amazon. We love to see birdie pictures!
 
The ONLY reason that our dog Tinker was allowed in the same house was that she was a very timid ex-puppy mill dog, very shy and Salty bit her right on the nose first time they met. But NONE of my dogs that I've had besides her would I have trusted with a parrot loose. Training not withstanding. But that's me.
 
The ONLY reason that our dog Tinker was allowed in the same house was that she was a very timid ex-puppy mill dog, very shy and Salty bit her right on the nose first time they met. But NONE of my dogs that I've had besides her would I have trusted with a parrot loose. Training not withstanding. But that's me.
I don't trust my dog either. But his training is to stay away from bird and cage. In that he's fairly consistent. My CAG can even offer him tibits of food and he'll stay away from cage and her. Believe me she tries to lure pup. I look at it as a form of house training. Dog will not enter kitchen, go out of doors, go in garage, in or out of car and without express verbal and hand gestures. I look at it as safety insurance. He will sit and stay too. I'm still getting teased at my Wal-Mart years after the fact. I told him to sit, stay while checking out. Then left. Attendent said don't forget your dog. My reply.. what dog? He was sitting there with such a look of don't leave. No I won't leave them out together. His training is such that a command will interpret any activity...eating, drinking, running, playing etc.
 
It CAN be done. But it's not easy. My dogs (and even the cats) know that prey animals are basically furniture. They are not allowed to chase them, jump or sleep on their cage, stare at them, or antagonize them in ANY way, because I don't think prey animals should have to live in fear. With that said, I would NEVER trust a dog to be loose with a bird unsupervised, even for 1 second, and mostly not supervised, depending on the training level and age of the dog (younger dogs are more impulsive, of course). I control my dogs in my house for a long time (either a leash, x-pen, or kennel). They aren't just "loose" to act like fools at any time, until they understand that the house is not a gymnasium.

But I have malinois. They're nuts (and side note, EXCEPTIONALLY high drive). But, I have malinois BECAUSE I compete with them, so they are at varying levels of training, depending on their age and experience, but the goal is HIGHLY trained. If I can call the dog off a helper, I can call her off a bird, lol. Nothing will EVER be as drive inducing as the helper. But, the goal is that should never even come up. Either the dog is trained enough that it is okay, under complete supervision, and consistent control (for instance, I'm expecting the dog to DO something, even if that something is just stationing), or it's not trained enough to be trusted loose with a bird at all. I also have the advantage that my dogs can spend a good deal of time outside, even though they are "indoor" dogs. I live in the country, and the dogs have the ability to spend much of the time that one of us is home and awake, outside, which gives me more freedom with the birds.

I agree that I'm not sure I like the puck. I like a LOT of clarity in my training, because I've found that my animals prefer it, and it is far more effective, and I just don't think the puck will do it. While I would say I train my dogs roughly 90% positively, I have no issue with someone using an e-collar for this, BECAUSE the results could be so catastrophic if it is not VERY clear that there are rules that are not optional. But I would use an e-collar if that is the route you choose to go, not the puck. I'd want absolute control over the timing and intensity of the correction. As an aside, a good e-collar ranges from not being able to feel it at all, to very high. The working level is where the dog can JUST start to feel it, I've tried it on myself, and it felt like a bug crawling on me (and actually, all of my dogs find the vibration to be far more punishing). Your dogs would be far less likely to be afraid of that. You could also train this positively. Basically, teach the dogs what you DO want, and reward that (stationing would be a great example). Absolutely NEVER reward ANY sort of attention on the bird.
 
Malinois are very high energy. That's what my dog is. Gotten as a pup in ignorance of the breed (like so many pet owners). We trained each other. Backyard time was laughable. He needed, demonstrated more. .He walked over 100# of me. How? By getting a sexagenerian (60+) to train for half marathons! We went through puppy school for 6 months before he was successful. Then another 2 months of advanced training. That pup got loose in Petsmart. It took a long time to catch him. Run, stop, slide, pivot, repeat. I discourage people out of getting a Malinois. But all they see is sweet, intelligent well trained pooch. Not the months of constant training and commitment. Just like they see a fairly well mannered, sweet, talkative CAG. They don't see the work, and commitment there either! Coexistence can be done. Not easily and definitely in need of constant, daily even by the minute reinforcement! But it can be done. The cats were easier. They required a squirt bottles and water guns strategically placed for quick use.
 
Malinois are very high energy. That's what my dog is. Gotten as a pup in ignorance of the breed (like so many pet owners). We trained each other. Backyard time was laughable. He needed, demonstrated more. .He walked over 100# of me. How? By getting a sexagenerian (60+) to train for half marathons! We went through puppy school for 6 months before he was successful. Then another 2 months of advanced training. That pup got loose in Petsmart. It took a long time to catch him. Run, stop, slide, pivot, repeat. I discourage people out of getting a Malinois. But all they see is sweet, intelligent well trained pooch. Not the months of constant training and commitment. Just like they see a fairly well mannered, sweet, talkative CAG. They don't see the work, and commitment there either! Coexistence can be done. Not easily and definitely in need of constant, daily even by the minute reinforcement! But it can be done. The cats were easier. They required a squirt bottles and water guns strategically placed for quick use.
I knew what I was getting into with mals, because I was already going to a bitesport club with my working line GSD. But yeah, I really wish they weren't available for the average pet owner. They really aren't pets. They can be pets TOO, but they need a job FIRST. And not just months of training, YEARS (forever, really). My youngest is 3, and she still has puppy brain, and the same energy. You can train them, but they will always be malinois. I have three (technically two, and one Dutchie, but in all reality, Dutchies are just brindle malinois). Anytime someone tells me they want one, I've offered to let them watch my youngest one for one day. And although she is far and away the craziest, she's also the easiest of the two registered mals, because she isn't as sharp as my oldest one (one thing I mean about always being mals). My dogs are specifically bred for mid-high level sport though, so they are on another level from even some other mals, either show line, or "pet" line.

And, while I am very much not a cat person, I do agree that they are easier to train around prey animals than malinois. And once you have one trained, they mostly just teach each other, I very rarely have to step in these days. One thing that helps is that my house is actually very quiet and calm, 99% of the time, except when I instigate (which does happen, lol). So all the animals (including the birds!) learn that is how we act in my house, because it's what they see. And it mostly just happens. The dogs are the only ones that need that specifically taught to them.

The big thing, as I was explaining to someone on Reddit, with predators and prey animals, is that they shouldn't ever even get to the point of full on hunting a bird. There's hundreds of steps before that, where they are starting to pay attention, and then focus, and then starting to think about stalking, etc., where the behavior SHOULD be stopped. If you can catch it then, while it's just the beginning of a thought, that's how you can teach them to consider each other furniture. So, one mistake doesn't lead to a dog hunting a bird, it leads to, say, maybe a fleeting glance while the bird is in its cage. It takes hundreds of stacked mistakes to lead to a loose dog hunting a loose bird. But, it's important to know how to read dogs. I've been training competitively since I was a kid in 4-H, and also worked with dogs professionally for almost 15 years. But anyone CAN learn it.
 
FYI; my Mal just turned 8 yo. He's still got puppy brain. The duration of puppy episodes has has decreased. They remain unpredictable. He still needs high energy food. Just letting you know.
 
I have a six-year-old Italian Greyhound. She's VERY prey motivated, so I keep her on a leash when my birds are out. Around the cages she behaves, but once they're out of the cage, she's a holy terror. I would NEVER trust her alone in the same room with my birds because her drive is that high. I've tried sticking her in the bedroom with the cats when the birds are out, but all she does is whine and LOUDLY (I live in an apartment).
 
Small dogs and parrots just aren’t a good idea. There will never be enough training to stop the instinctual urge they have. When I was a kid my aunt had three birds and two small dogs. She had worked hard with them training them to stay away from the birds and not respond or leave if the birds came close. 3 years into having the birds and one of the dogs killed her cockatiel in 3 seconds when it flew and landed on the floor a few feet away from the dog. She was in the room and yelling and running towards them but the dog didn’t stop until she was on top of it and it was too late. The bird had flown and landed near the dogs many times before without issue, but for some reason this time was different.

I have since met two other people in my area locally who have lost birds to small dogs they thought were trained. Your dogs need to be isolated from your bird there is no other answer.
 
People who think they can train the instinct out of their dogs are expecting too much from them and putting their bird's life at stake. And let's not even talk about cats and birds! The animal world isn't Noah's Ark.
 
People who think they can train the instinct out of their dogs are expecting too much from them and putting their bird's life at stake. And let's not even talk about cats and birds! The animal world isn't Noah's Ark.
My cat desperately wants to eat my IRN and Caique but is afraid of my CAG. He isn’t allowed in the room with them but can see them through the screen door I have separating the two sides of our house. If he comes close to the door sometimes the grey will fly over and scream at him and he runs like shes about to blast through the door and get him. The only thing I can think is that due to her size and attitude towards him he believes she is a hawk or bird of prey.
 

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