Exactly how do you control the beak with two fingers?

[Kentuckienne]

So lots of posts talk about managing macaws. Some stuff I get...wrapping the forearms with towels, check. Mr. Pillow, check. Mr. Towel, only a vague acquaintance from having to give injections to Oliver the Amazon. But two things mystify me.

One is the advice to "use a finger on either side of the beak to control it so he can't bite" and I can't visualize it. Is it catching the upper beak between finger and thumb? Is it the first two fingers bent with the beak trapped within? Or something else? Second, how do you move fast enough to catch a lunging or biting beak? I worry that if I move quickly enough to grab the beak properly, that I will hurt him. Beaks are very sensitive. How firmly do you have to hold the beak? What stops the macaw from just twisting his head back and out of the hold? And then biting because he's MAD now?

The other thing I can't visualize is to use a closed fist to push the beak away. If I move my closed fist toward a mad macaw, won't I just have a closed fist inside a beak? Them things is pointy. And again, how fast do you move the fist...how to manage the difference between "use closed fist to move head" and "punch macaw in the head"?

I can't find videos of either maneuver ... Which would be the most helpful thing for me...but any clarification would be gratefully and thankfully received with thanks and gratitude.

 

[wrench13]

The idea with the closed fist ( thumb tucked inside) is to present the beak with the expanse of your knuckles and back of the hand, rather then the part that has fingers exposed. I got mellonballed by a yellow nape one time, by presenting the part with the fingers visible ( to him), took a large , pea sized piece of meat out. The back of the hand is difficult for them to get a good hold on. I gotta say, you are one determined lady, my hats off to you!

 

[SailBoat]

For whatever reason, it seems that the Big Beak People don't seem to be flooding with Posts. So, I will pass along what from a view point of an Amazon these management tools work.

The easy one is Mr Towel. Mr. Towel has many uses a couple of which you have listed. Mr. Towels main use is to act as a distraction! Most Parrots associate a Towel with that thing they get wrapped in and then terrible things happen to them (like at the Vet's office). So, most want to avoid Mr. Towel. This avoidance provides a distraction as they choose between eating you or moving away from the Dancing Towel and at later stages of this process, saved by you. During the early stages, its goal is to defuse the Parrots attention directed at you. A Dancing Towel is created by holding the Towel at arms length using the tips of your figures to hold the towel length wise. With a MAC and mid to large Amazons use a Bath Towel. Mr. Towel bounces (dances) in and at the side or directly between you and the Parrot gets the Parrot to switch its attack to the towel. Any relent by the Parrot is followed by you telling Mr. Towel to go away and you save the Parrot.

NOTE: Commonly takes practice in a Bedroom without the Parrot for you to get the puppet show thing practiced and what works and what needs more practice.


(One is the advice to "use a finger on either side of the beak to control it so he can't bite" and I can't visualize it.)

It does not visualize well, because of the way that Humans 'see' and the way that Parrots 'see.' As you know, Parrots have a much wider view range than we do. But, they also have an area with an odd crossover dead in front of them. In short, its difficult from them to focus straight ahead at the front edge of the beak. Take your index finger point it at the area between your eyes from about 12" (305 mm) out and slowly move your finger in until you feel the stress your eye muscles are under and note the difficultly focusing. That muscle stress and crossing focus is much worst for a Parrot. When you are doing this, you and they, loss concentration of other things.

The two finger hold. Yes, you have it correct! (Is it catching the upper beak between (index) finger and thumb?). The only difference is that I come in with index finger, just like what you did above to yourself and when I make contact with the upper part of the beak; The index finger backs to allow the thump to contact next to it and than slide on to the beak. The goal is to provide a 'moderate /light hold' of the Beak. You also, want to be able to back the Parrot up a bit once you make the connection. Once again, using the power of distraction and confusion to your advantage. Keep backing pressure in place allows you not to have to overdue the force need to hold the Beak.

I always lead with the index finger coming in as close to center or slightly above the eyes as possible. The higher, the less likely of a bite. When you become really brave, you can around the back of the Parrots head with your other hand and cup the back of his head. NOTE: This is advanced control and not recommended until you need to add its use.

I have never used the closed fist approach. My guess is that it provides a much larger surface area and keeps the smaller finger tips safely hidden.

The combination of controlling the Beak, with the backing pressure has gotten me the control I needed to get Hormonal Amazons under physical control.

A couple of notes.

Practice!!! Using your own nose in place of the Beak. This allows you to see what your index finger needs to do so that the thumb can make contact and between both hold the Beak.

Also, using your nose again, apply backing pressure. You will quickly see that it does not require a great deal of moving back to create this distraction.

Distraction combines with confusion is a strong tool when you understand that it can be done with much less pressure and movement.

Advance expansions of this process.

Once the Parrot is off balance, as noted above. You can bring our free hand in to cup the back of this head. (I rarely use it, but it is nice to have in your bag of tricks).

Once the Parrot is off balance, as noted above. You can bring your free arm /hand in just behind the Parrots feet and lift just in front of the rump. This will commonly get them to back step on to your arm or hand. Use the command 'Step-Up.' Once on your arm, use the dropped arm /or hand tool to maintain a distraction and confusion.

NOTE: The whole process is based around keeping the Parrot 'Off-Balance' and busy! And, You controlling the process.

Dry Run Practice is very important: Slip-ups will be rewarded with a bite.

Fundamentally, your goal is to be messing with his mind while he is trying to mess with yours!

I truly hope that this helps a little bit. I really get the visual thing. Much easier to see it.

 

[Anansi]

Al pretty much nailed it with the fist part. You'd still get well and truly scraped or welted up if faced with an aggressively determined macaw, but the tightened skin of a clenched fist (with thumb safely tucked) makes it more difficult for that beak to grab enough meat to do more serious damage. And also protects the finger bones from fractures or breakage.

As for how fast you move the fist, I'd say not very. There shouldn't be impact. It's more of a blocking placement followed by gentle and minimal push pressure kind of thing. Not even enough pressure to threaten his balance. Basically, if the closed fist is needed, that beak will be coming at you rather than the other way around. So think of it as more of a fending maneuver than anything even remotely aggressive enough to be confused with punching a macaw in the head. Lol!

As for the 2 finger method, it's something that is far more effective against macaw sized beaks than, say, ekkie sized, so it's not something I've used much. (Not to be confused with the method I've explained in the past for using fingers to quickly disengage a biting beak from your flesh, which is different from the method you're asking about.) But for those who use it (Mark being one of the biggest proponents), I understand it to be the index finger and middle finger, extended straight out and placed on either side of the beak (somewhere between halfway and 3/4 of the way up the beak). Gentle yet consistent pressure is applied at maybe a 45 degree angle. Just enough to prevent the mac from raising his beak for a chomp, or even pull his head back far enough to get around your hand, but not so much to threaten his balance. So it's not holding the beak so much as restraining it. There should be no worry about applying enough pressure to cause pain or even discomfort, because there is no squeezing involved. In fact, most of the pressure would be coming from the macaw's side.

As for moving fast enough to catch a lunging beak, that would be the wrong way of looking at it. Your mindset should be on reading the macaw's body language and anticipating the strike, then moving for where the beak will be rather than trying to catch it when already in motion. Otherwise, you're right. There would be the risk of hurting him. Or of you being too slow on the draw and basically offering two fingers for his chewing pleasure. Neither scenario works for me. Lol!

 

[Anansi]

Hahaha! Saw yours after posting mine, Steven. Some similarities, and some differences. The use of the thumb and index finger definitely makes that method more workable for ekkie/amazon sized beaks, I'd say.

And I'm so glad you brought up the importance of distraction, as I'd left that out in my post. Distraction can be huge for controlling an aggressive parrot.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Thanks for the clarifications. I feel simultaneously relieved and terrified. Relieved to have a bit more information to practice...terrified because I'm one step closer to seeing how many fingers Gus can bite at one time.

 

[SailBoat]

Hahaha! Saw yours after posting mine, Steven. Some similarities, and some differences. The use of the thumb and index finger definitely makes that method more workable for ekkie/amazon sized beaks, I'd say.

And I'm so glad you brought up the importance of distraction, as I'd left that out in my post. Distraction can be huge for controlling an aggressive parrot.

Same here!

I had guessed that MAC's would be a bit different. I use the thumb and index finger because it allows me to tuck my other fingers in and use the bend on the center finger to control depth (missed adding that above). But could see that with a MAC's Bill there would be a need to allow the Beak to be deeper between the fingers.

Nothing like distraction to save fingers and other body parts! Been face to face with enough Hormonal Raging Amazons, no past history with and having to get them up and away as quickly as possible to protect the Amazon and the Human they are moments away from eating.

 

[SailBoat]

Thanks for the clarifications. I feel simultaneously relieved and terrified. Relieved to have a bit more information to practice...terrified because I'm one step closer to seeing how many fingers Gus can bite at one time.

I understand being terrified!

But remember, that this is as much a Mind Game as it is Physical. Gus can feel your emotions and will use them against you! Your Practicing, will lessen the terror and allow you to develop that comfortable place inside you to hide your fear! He is already aware of your fear and will look for it when you interact next. Not showing it will confuse him and start the distraction process!


The information above regarding coming in at a 45 degree angle is very helpful with mid to larger MAC's and a tool you want to practice because it will give you greater control of the Beak and limit his upward movement that would allow his access to your fingers.

NOTE: Amazon and like size Parrots - this is to great an angle and you will end up coming in at the top of the Beak.



So, does the other Avatar come back after you over come this moment in you're long life with Gus?

 

[Kentuckienne]

So, does the other Avatar come back after you over come this moment in you're long life with Gus?

Ha, I changed the avatar because I figured nobody else here would remember the Stone Head from Zardoz. I loved that movie mostly because of the music at the end, when they are doing a time-lapse thing. I was captivated, waited for the credits to learn it was Beethoven's seventh symphony, third movement. I learned much later that when the piece was performed for the first time in public, the audience made the orchestra stop, go back, and play it again three times. So I'm not the only one to be stunned by beauty.

 

[wrench13]

Wadda ya mean no one remembers Zardoz! The floating head !