Gagging?

[Teddscau]

Okay, so I've been under the impression that it's normal for parrots to gag once in a while. No, not yawning, head bobbing, regurgitating, or vomiting. I mean "gagging", like that time I bit into some rancid tofu (okay, that was closer to vomiting than gagging, but you get the point). Anyways, Tiki (and Ria?) have been doing it a fair bit. Like, more than a dozen times a day, such as when they eat or drink. Anyways, I was on this kākāriki forum and when I mentioned it, one of the people on the forum said it sounded like they had crop worms.

Honestly, I just thought it was because they've been eating dry food instead of the moist fruits, veggies, roots, flowers, and grubs that they'd eat in the wild. What do you guys think? I was going to ask when I was at the vet, but I was just so relieved to hear Ria didn't have psittacosis.

 

[SailBoat]

Okay, so I've been under the impression that it's normal for parrots to gag once in a while. No, not yawning, head bobbing, regurgitating, or vomiting. I mean "gagging", like that time I bit into some rancid tofu (okay, that was closer to vomiting than gagging, but you get the point). Anyways, Tiki (and Ria?) have been doing it a fair bit. Like, more than a dozen times a day, such as when they eat or drink. Anyways, I was on this kākāriki forum and when I mentioned it, one of the people on the forum said it sounded like they had crop worms.

Honestly, I just thought it was because they've been eating dry food instead of the moist fruits, veggies, roots, flowers, and grubs that they'd eat in the wild. What do you guys think? I was going to ask when I was at the vet, but I was just so relieved to hear Ria didn't have psittacosis.

Gagging? Interesting question.
When a Human is gagging, there is a clear 'gagging' sound that accompanies the visual appearance of gagging. Are you hearing such a sound?

As you know, Parrots do yawn. My DYH Amazon will get into a yawning competition with me, and yes, I let him win. Along with an 'occasional' yawn it is common for Parrots to use a yawn /gag appearing movement that acts to adjust the 'food' in the Crop to either cause it to more easily continue down the throat or to break-up clumps for the same reason.

Crop Worms? Was that someone on the Parrot Forums or another forum? I have not heard of Crop Worms before. That's why I love being a part of this Forum. One is always learning something New!


Crop Worms - more commonly round worms of the small intestines of a bird that is highly infested. Likely found in Parrot Mills or other like unsanitary places.

 

[Teddscau]

I don't think there's a gagging sound accompanying the behaviour? Hmm, I didn't know they did that gagging thing to adjust the food in their crop.

As for the crop worms thing, it was on a different forum. I'd never heard of crop worms either. I mean, I guess it makes sense that a parrot's crop could have a parasitic infection, but it seems like something a chicken is more likely to have problems with. I'm definitely hoping it isn't round worms. I mean, I know they weren't kept in the best conditions at the shelter, but I don't think conditions were THAT bad. Just bad enough for them to have atrophied muscles, nutritional deficiencies, unsafe leg bands, and exposure to aspergillus... So, maybe they do have round worms.

 

[israel_gcc]

I'd never heard of this issue before, but now that I google for it specifically, it really does seem to be a thing. Let us know what the verdict is!

You can probably bring a feces sample to the vet for testing, without having to take the birds there just for this.

 

[GaleriaGila]

There's always the possibility they're imitating you...
The Rb does a hilarious version of most of our sneezes and snorts and such.

 

[EllenD]

Can you get a video of this "gagging"? I'd like to see it first, but I'm going to go ahead and say if both of them are doing it and it's happening that often every day, then you need to get them to the avian vet for a throat/crop culture. I've actually never heard of "crop worms", I have no idea what that is (not do I need to know or want to ever know), but it is possible that something is coming up from their crops into their throats, like we get "reflux". It could be a yeast or bacterial infection in their crops, it could be something in their food or something they are breathing in that's irritating their throats, but whatever it is I guarantee you that it's not normal. Since your 2 birds are housed together (I think I remember them being in the same cage), eating the same food, drinking the same water, breathing the same air or perhaps the irritant in their air, food, water, or cage, they both need to go see the CAV immediately. I'd hate to see them get progressively worse with something like this because it could very well start to effect their breathing (such sensitive respiratory systems) and/or their ability to swallow.

I'm not sure but I think I remember you having other birds in your home, are they doing it too, and have they ever done it? Have you changed the bird's diets or are you adding anything to their food or water, such as powder or liquid vitamin/mineral supplements, probiotic powder or liquid, medication, nutritional supplementation like Harrison's Mash, etc? I ask about Harrison's Mash specifically because I used to mix it in with my breeder budgie's and cockatiel's food, it is great stuff and is really wonderful for trying to get a bird that is thin to put on a bit of weight, but my budgies in particular would always sneeze like crazy during and after they ate the Mash. So any type of powder supplements can really irritate and dry out their mouths, throats, nostrils and sinus passages, etc. Last question I have is how long have they been doing this? Have they both done this since the very first day you brought them home, or did it come on or just suddenly start recently?

I know you rescued these babies and they had some health problems due to their last home and the way they were treated, thank you for saving these guys and bringing them into a loving, caring home and family. But if they are both doing this and it's been going on since they came home, it may be a serious problem or illness stemming from their last environment.

I'm sure you do, but you do have these two quarantined from your other birds, right? I'm just making sure, I'm sure you do...

If you can answer these questions and give us some more background info it would be great. A video would be really helpful because I can't even picture a bird "gagging". In 31 years of owning and living with birds, I can't say I remember ever seeing or hearing a bird "gag", unless they were purposely regurgitating, which as you know is very easy to differentiate.

"Dance like nobody's watching..."

 

[Teddscau]

Huh, I didn't think gagging was such a big deal. My birds have been doing it for years...I think. My mom always jokes that they're choking on a feather or a seed husk. Anyways, I know Noah does it too. Often after preening or scratching his head. I think it's because he gets a bit of dander in his throat or something. When I had cockatiels (several years ago we rehomed them), they gagged, too. Not yawning, not regurgitation, actual gagging. Often after preening, I think.

Man, now you guys have me worried. Oh, wait, Noah had a physical, blood work, and a fecal float done a month after he came to live with us. Everything was normal. I know it's not the same as a culture, but still.

Honestly, I thought gagging was perfectly normal. No stranger than bathing in greens, picking dried poop off of their perches, or getting into little spats (completely harmless disagreements). Fudge, I hope you guys don't think poorly of me because of this. Honestly, I had no idea this wasn't normal.

I'll have to take a video of one of the kids doing this. Fudge, I really didn't know this was abnormal behaviour. Honestly, the cockatiels always did this. I think it's from getting dander in their throats.

Ellen, yes the kākāriki are kept in the same quarantine cage. As for my other birds, Noah definitely does it, I can't remember if the budgies have done it before. They probably have. Noah and the seven budgies are kept in an aviary together. I have changed their diet a bit, as Ju and Alice have been having food sensitivities. Ju projectile vomits everywhere if I give him Goldenfeast Petite Hookbill Legume Blend. His tummy and bum gets itchy when he eats sweet potato and certain other foods (not sure what foods). Several other budgies (Samantha, Alice, Ziggy, Pollo, etc.) get itchy from (organic) sweet potato, too. I think Alice might be sensitive to soy, corn, and wheat, in addition to sweet potato. Her bum and tummy get really irritated and it causes her to pluck her bum and lower abdomen. It got really bad, and she started plucking and kicking at her vent and tummy a lot. Fluid actually started leaking out of her irritated skin, making her feathers damp on her lower abdomen.

Currently, they eat Goldn'obles III, TOPs, organic grey millet, Avian Organics mashes (Strawberry Patch Pudding, Mayan Gourment Mash, Little Beaks Buffet), and they eat the following sprouts sporadically: lentils, mung beans, and chickpeas. I know, they don't eat enough veggies during the winter. However, during the spring, summer, and fall, they get fresh sprouts (millet, grains, pulses), freshly collected grass seed, organic veggies from the garden and store, and edible weeds (chickweed, purslane, dandelion, etc.).

Noah's a bit dusty, so I think he probably gags due to little flakes getting stuck in his throat. He does this at least once a day, but I only spend a few hours with the kids, so he probably does it when I'm not watching. When I first got Noah, he was as dusty as a cockatiel. I don't think he'd been bathed for months, and it took more than a dozen thorough mistings to get things under control. Whenever he'd scratch or ruffle his feathers, a huge cloud of dust would come out. He also eats a lot of pellets (he really enjoys them), and those can be quite dusty as they like to chew them into a fine powder. Anyways, he's done this since his previous family dropped him off at my house in June.

The kākāriki have been gagging since I brought them home last Thursday. And yes, they're quarantined on a completely level of the house from the aviary. Noah almost definitely gags because he's a bit dusty. Same goes for the cockatiels. I'm not sure why the kākāriki are doing it. They're definitely drinking way more than Noah and the budgies. But I don't know how much is normal for red-fronted kākāriki, so I can't say whether they're actually drinking an abnormal amount.

Anyways, I already posted about the kākāriki in a different thread, but I can post about them again here.

Tiki and Ria are supposedly 2 years old, and came to the Kitchener-Waterloo Humane Society along with dozens of other birds (mainly lovebirds, I think). This guy had been trying to run some sort of parrot sanctuary/rescue, but he ran out of funding. The people at the Humane Society said he'd taken good care of the birds and that they had food and weren't kept in filth. Then again, I don't really know what they mean by "good care," since, at the Humane Society, the kākāriki were kept in a small cage; were fed an animal-grade mix of peanuts, cracked corn, generic bulk food store pellets, soybeans, wheat, buckwheat, chickpeas, dried papaya, and some sort of other dried fruit; only had dowel perches; their tails are damaged from being kept in too small of a cage their muscles are atrophied due to lack of exercise; they had some sort of weird, temporary, unsafe "leg bands" on (they were made out of some sort of thin, green aluminum. They weren't actual leg bands. I had Dr. Morris remove them, and he just used a pair of wimpy forceps while I held the birds); and Ria has sinusitis as a result of injuring herself (you can see the bruise on the left side of her beak), and a really swollen left eye (the pus in her sinuses is trying to push the eye out of her socket). Ria was treated with doxycycline for 45 days for the infection, and she was apparently "better." However, when I brought them home from the shelter, I noticed her eye was quite swollen, so I took the two of them to the vet on Monday and it turns out she's still sick, so she's on doxycycline for another 2–3 weeks. Also, the shelter refused to give us their medical records when we asked for them due to confidentiality reasons. They said we had to get our vet to ask their vet to share the records, and that vets were the only ones allowed to see the medical records. Dr. Morris was confused and ticked off with the Humane Society when we told him this, and said that that was "a bunch of bull." He said the Humane Society was actually obligated to give us Tiki and Ria's medical records.

Tonight, while giving Ria her meds, I noticed her lower beak actually looks like it's split. I don't know what the heck happened, but there's a split in the middle of her lower beak that's roughly 2mm long. Like, the two "halves" of her lower beak are still sitting flush together, but if she bites into something hard, she might hurt herself. I don't know. Every time I take my birds to the vet, I feel I often have to walk the vets through the whole thing. We've seen at least four separate avian vets. However, when we take our dogs to the vet, we actually have to tell them to examine moles, rotting teeth, skin conditions, etc., even when issues are obvious.

Perfect! I found a blurry video on YouTube of a cockatiel gagging. It looks pretty much the same when Noah and the kākāriki gag. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s9eoz5fSs18

Here's a better one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qpvdT0jGAA

And another... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=inTY73EtAjE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GVtwLdLgp1s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DEgtY9Sl2Mw


Okay, I think you get the idea.