Help needed for Bonnie - vets don't seem to be able to help.

vortexx

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I have a male and female eclectus. They stay in the same areas of the house but sleep in separate cages. The female, Bonnie, is the sick one. The other seems perfectly healthy. I have spent so much money on vets and botched visits where they ended up just giving refills of metacam as well as an opiate. Due to beak and feather colors, I'm assuming she has fatty liver disease. She stopped eating seeds about 4 years ago. She will regurgitate if she gets more than 3 small biscuits in her crop. My male, Herbie can eat as many as he wants. Bonnie will no longer eat pellets and seeds.

Lately (the last 3 days) she has been making crying noises when I wake her up. She is taking my finger and vibrating it in her beak. (the finger thing has been going on much longer than 3 days, but not all the time. Asking her yes or no questions, I think that she is hungry, but I also think something is wrong with her crop or possibly the mouth area (I heard her slowly trying to eat a few spray millet seeds (less than 10) one night in her cage after bedtime. There was one day where she actually ate half of a small spray millet overnight. Her poop was reddish and nothing else had changed in her diet. On my last vet visit, they looked down her throat which was a little rough and did a crop wash which didn't show anything abnormal. The doctor suggested that she was beaking my finger as a sign of affection. I do not think that is true as now there are crying noises when that happens. I should add that her voice has sounded rough the last few days. Some of that sounds like an infection, but there is no wheezing.

I should add that she stopped eating seeds a number of years ago. I just assumed she preferred the fresh food more.

Does anyone have any suggestions that might help, or questions for me that may give insight to what might be wrong?

I should add that Bonnie is about 13 years old and I had both birds since the were weaned.

thanks
Andrew & Bonnie
 

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zERo

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Well, I don't own an Eclectus but have the vets done a blood and fecal test?
 
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vortexx

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Well, I don't own an Eclectus but have the vets done a blood and fecal test?
Yes, the vets did blood and fecal work a couple of times since I've been taking her in to them in autumn of 2020. This has been an ongoing thing that the vets seem to not know or understand. At a couple of points she was also given Baytril as well as a stronger antibiotic. It seemed some of the stronger symptoms may have eventually gone away (I think I gave her an infection once possibly as it was hard to maintain clean syringes over such a long time. She was wheezing at that point and had to get the stronger antibiotic). She was also on painkillers during these times, so other than what I may have caused, she may not have had infections the other times.

When the stool was reddish one day, I did not have enough money to see a vet, so it was never tested.
I have spent a few thousand on vets during this time. I am disabled and have to rely on selling things on ebay for money other than essential bills.
 

zERo

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Yes, the vets did blood and fecal work a couple of times since I've been taking her in to them in autumn of 2020. This has been an ongoing thing that the vets seem to not know or understand. At a couple of points she was also given Baytril as well as a stronger antibiotic. It seemed some of the stronger symptoms may have eventually gone away (I think I gave her an infection once possibly as it was hard to maintain clean syringes over such a long time. She was wheezing at that point and had to get the stronger antibiotic). She was also on painkillers during these times, so other than what I may have caused, she may not have had infections the other times.

When the stool was reddish one day, I did not have enough money to see a vet, so it was never tested.
I have spent a few thousand on vets during this time. I am disabled and have to rely on selling things on ebay for money other than essential bills.
I don't know how to help really. Have the vets said what they think could be wrong with her?
 
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vortexx

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I don't know how to help really. Have the vets said what they think could be wrong with her?
They don't really know. Her weight is more or less the same, which some vets use as a judge of illness.
The latest vet I went to suggested that Bonnie vibrating her open beak on my finger to show fondness of me or something. She added crying noises in the last couple of days, so I can discount that.

It seems to be something to do with being able to eat. She can answer many yes or no questions and she seems to be trying to say there is pain, perhaps even starting in the beak/mouth area. She used to love eating spray millet sticks and would sit and eat for at least a half an hour. When she stopped, I assumed the batch was not tasty or something. She also used to consume much more food a few years ago. She could eat a plastic box of kiwis in a day, as well as other things.
 

SailBoat

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As you have likely seen in many other Threads, the common recommendation is that your Eclectus should be seeing an Avian Medical Professional. You do not list a region on this World so it becomes difficult to recommended one. Are you seeing a bonafide Avian Professional?

As you know, the correct diet is critical for the care of Eclectus Parrots.

Please remember that just like a Medical visit to your Doctor, Vets can and should provide a like document when you visit a Vet. You have a right to ask for such to assure what treatment and findings are found and recommended after each visit.

We are not Medical Professionals and can only pass along our best guess. Fatty Liver issues will be seen in a normal full spectrum Blood Spectrum test.
 

Emeral

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I have a male and female eclectus. They stay in the same areas of the house but sleep in separate cages. The female, Bonnie, is the sick one. The other seems perfectly healthy. I have spent so much money on vets and botched visits where they ended up just giving refills of metacam as well as an opiate. Due to beak and feather colors, I'm assuming she has fatty liver disease. She stopped eating seeds about 4 years ago. She will regurgitate if she gets more than 3 small biscuits in her crop. My male, Herbie can eat as many as he wants. Bonnie will no longer eat pellets and seeds.

Lately (the last 3 days) she has been making crying noises when I wake her up. She is taking my finger and vibrating it in her beak. (the finger thing has been going on much longer than 3 days, but not all the time. Asking her yes or no questions, I think that she is hungry, but I also think something is wrong with her crop or possibly the mouth area (I heard her slowly trying to eat a few spray millet seeds (less than 10) one night in her cage after bedtime. There was one day where she actually ate half of a small spray millet overnight. Her poop was reddish and nothing else had changed in her diet. On my last vet visit, they looked down her throat which was a little rough and did a crop wash which didn't show anything abnormal. The doctor suggested that she was beaking my finger as a sign of affection. I do not think that is true as now there are crying noises when that happens. I should add that her voice has sounded rough the last few days. Some of that sounds like an infection, but there is no wheezing.

I should add that she stopped eating seeds a number of years ago. I just assumed she preferred the fresh food more.

Does anyone have any suggestions that might help, or questions for me that may give insight to what might be wrong?

I should add that Bonnie is about 13 years old and I had both birds since the were weaned.

thanks
Andrew & Bonnie

When my Emerald take my finger in her beak and turn right and left, she is asking for something. So I think, Bonnie is asking for your help. And I am glad you are looking for alternatives for her. It is wise to be observative, as early symptom detection could be useful. Prevention is way easier than cure.

Eating at night time is not good for bird's crop. She needs to go without food for at least 8 to10 hours to have it empty completely. Otherwise, she might get a risk of sour crop.

You might be interested in this thread, which mentioned crop flushes, the symptoms and lessons learned.

Post in thread '5 month cockatiel, slow recovery?' https://www.parrotforums.com/threads/5-month-cockatiel-slow-recovery.91259/post-939174

My suggestions are....

1) watching the bird's crop and other signs exhibited including the poop, all must be consistent with the food intake. Please give details of what the vet says about her digestive system. How long is her on current meds?

2) when in doubt about health, giving easy to digest food or hand feeding of baby bird's food may make it easier on Bonnie. This is for Probiotics as well as fiber and vitamins.

easy to digest food:
Ripe papaya, mango, banana, yogurt, boiled pumpkin, cooked veggies, unsweeten apple sauce.

3) let her sleep in a completely dark corner, without midnight snack.

4) does she play? Giving her a few pots of herbs to chew might aids digestion as well as boozing vitamin intake. I suggest pots of basils.

Post in thread 'Been to top Vet, desperate, bad plucking' https://www.parrotforums.com/threads/been-to-top-vet-desperate-bad-plucking.90951/post-935304

I would not wait for Bonnie's weight loss to happen, to be concern. Though, the lack of it means she is in a stable stage. After you have read these 2 posts and it's links to relevant threads, please tell us more details on Bonnie's symptoms and diagnosis.

It is not easy to keep looking for alternatives for Bonnie. But we will be with you along the way
 

Laurasea

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hopefully our Eclectus people will weigh in.

Diet is critical in these unique parrots. Often a no pellet no seed , all fresh diet of veggies, leafy lettuce, some berries fruits, cooked legume, sprouts, cooked egg, soaked /and or cooked whole grains is recommended.

Because I've had the unfortunate outbreak of chlamydia in my flock abd have to deal with outbreaks now and possibly forever. That comes to mind in your situation . It's a disease that can have dormant periods and flare up years later. It can effect different systems in the bird so you can have different symptoms based on where tge infection is, voice change us a symptom, respiratory symptoms, green stool or stool changes, eye symptoms, weight loss etc. While baytril can temporarily make symptoms better it will not cure and us not the right antibiotic. Doxycline is the antibiotic of choice and requires a 45 day treatment regime. Then watching for relapse which is common. Its highly infectious and airborne. So all birds in the home have to be treated at the same time even if the other birds show zero symptoms. And daily extreme cleaning, no use of vacuum during cleaning as will spread airborne and the bacteria will persist in the filter. Change all heating and ac filters in home weekly during treatment....

Anyway I have no idea if that is something your bird has. I just share it as an example of a chronic infection that an be intermittent hard to detect and requires a specific antibiotic to Clear and is pretty common abd yet widely overlooked by veterinarians
 
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Scott

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As you have likely seen in many other Threads, the common recommendation is that your Eclectus should be seeing an Avian Medical Professional. You do not list a region on this World so it becomes difficult to recommended one. Are you seeing a bonafide Avian Professional?

As you know, the correct diet is critical for the care of Eclectus Parrots.

Please remember that just like a Medical visit to your Doctor, Vets can and should provide a like document when you visit a Vet. You have a right to ask for such to assure what treatment and findings are found and recommended after each visit.

We are not Medical Professionals and can only pass along our best guess. Fatty Liver issues will be seen in a normal full spectrum Blood Spectrum test.
Hi Andrew, advice above really critical to Bonnie's well-being! Quality of vet critical to accurate diagnosis and effective treatment. Given past diet of seeds, FLD a reasonable assumption. Corrective diet helpful, as are potential homeopathic remedies. Some swear by a specific oral formulation of liquid aloe. Not suggesting implementing anything short of conversation with highly skilled avian vet.
 
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vortexx

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Thanks for the replies. I'm a bit overwhelmed with the information. I appreciate the email as well. I'm in the Toronto area. I was going to the High Park Animal hospital but I stopped after a particularly bad visit where I was going to to a full blood workup and X-rays. I paid about $1000. Canadian dollars and they only got 1 x-ray. The second one the technician couldn't do. Bonnie was getting sedated numerous times and each time the guy pulled her wings to clit them in an open position, she was waking up in pain. I got bonnie back in slightly bloody condition and she vomited. He didn't get enough blood for the tests. They told me to come back within a month and they would finish the test at no extra charge. I decided not to let them torture Bonnie again. I am now going to the Lincs Animal clinic that only deals with exotics. I will have to confirm if the vet is certified though. I had to go to an emergency clinic outside of Toronto a few times overnight. They are not certified.

My brain can only handle a bit of information at a time, so I will be re-reading everything in the next few days.

Thanks!
 
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vortexx

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I'm trying to puzzle out what may be wrong as there are some issues on my end. There was one day that bonnie wasn't feeling well and hadn't eaten much. I put a sliced kiwi in the bottom of the cage just in case she was starving. I cover Bonnie's cage when she sleeps and do the same for Herbie. When I checked to see if Bonnie was feeling well about 3 hours later, I noticed the kiwi had started turning brownish-red. I'm assuming there is some contaminate in the cage. I removed all the newspapers at the bottom and brushed off some stuff on the bars. I need something stronger to clean some dried stuff on the bars. Last time I used a steam cleaner to sanitize the cage, but since it is winter and I can't really open windows, I probably should not use that as vapor from whatever is stuck on some bars might become airborn. Bonnie has a twisting cotton perch which has become dark. I ordered a replacement. One thing about those perches - some advertise a banana scent. I thought scents should be kept away from birds. Did someone find that that is not necessary? I've had birds for most of my life and I know that the old books on care did not mention things like teflon, scents etc. Is the scent thing something new, such as banana smelling perches?

Thanks for all the info so far. I am taking everything into account. One major problem that I have is that it is difficult for me to keep the house clean and dust free. That could be a problem on it's own.
 

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Not sure of her past 13-year diet but I know Kiwi is an acidic fruit just as an orange is maybe the acid from the kiwi is aggravating her digestive system. Just a suggestion I'm definitely not an expert.
 
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Laurasea

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I read your post and said she wasn't eating and about the slice of kiwi on bottom of cage. Is she on bottom of cage???

If she is choosing not to perch and isn't eating well. Then she can be extremely sick. Life threatening and would need to get to vet today or early tomorrow.


So I hope I am misunderstanding???????



On cleaning add a little white vinegar to cold water ( never hot as off gasses are bad) . Dilute white vinegar in water is good at breaking down burd gunk. Wipe scrub everything. Then wipe with plain water. As vinegar can be a little irritating. I use dilute vinegar in cold water. Cage treys I take out and wash with dawn soap.
 
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vortexx

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I read your post and said she wasn't eating and about the slice of kiwi on bottom of cage. Is she on bottom of cage???

If she is choosing not to perch and isn't eating well. Then she can be extremely sick. Life threatening and would need to get to vet today or early tomorrow.


So I hope I am misunderstanding???????



On cleaning add a little white vinegar to cold water ( never hot as off gasses are bad) . Dilute white vinegar in water is good at breaking down burd gunk. Wipe scrub everything. Then wipe with plain water. As vinegar can be a little irritating. I use dilute vinegar in cold water. Cage treys I take out and wash with dawn soap.
Sorry that I didn't explain. I put the kiwi in a dish on the bottom of her cage as she is currently mostly eating outside of her cage (on top) and so is Herbie. We used to put some dry stuff on the bottom in plates in case they wanted something extra overnight. I decided to do that with a kiwi. I have never tasted a kiwi, but another person told me that it is acidic. That could be aggrevating her throat/crop. Both birds have become very picky in terms of what they eat. I worry if I withhold the kiwis, she may not eat much. She doesn't eat seeds or pellets.

Edit: I didn't elaborate - Bonnie is able to get around. She walks and climbs. She doesn't fly as she cut the feathers in her wings a couple of years ago into little pieces one night. She has since overpreened them as they grow in making them fragile. She hasn't flown since then.
 

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As others mentioned, diet is VERY important for eclectuses, as they have a unique digestive system, meaning they need a special diet compared to other parrots.

Sorry for asking, but how does the diet look like of your eclectuses?
 

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HeatherG

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If Bonnie doesn’t eat pellets or seeds, what does she eat?

I’m wondering about the beaking your finger and vibrating her tongue. I think it sounds like she’s trying to feed, like a baby parrot. That sounds like how they pump their parent’s mouth or the syringe for food. I mat be wrong, as I can’t see her doing it, but If she’s not eating enough it seems most logical.

Have you tried feeding her baby bird food from a syringe or spoon? She needs enough calories to live and not waste away.
 

RockyNRob

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Personally I would contact your nearest LARGE ZOO an explain an ask who they use for their birds. They normally are the best of the best.
 

bittybo

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I have a male and female eclectus. They stay in the same areas of the house but sleep in separate cages. The female, Bonnie, is the sick one. The other seems perfectly healthy. I have spent so much money on vets and botched visits where they ended up just giving refills of metacam as well as an opiate. Due to beak and feather colors, I'm assuming she has fatty liver disease. She stopped eating seeds about 4 years ago. She will regurgitate if she gets more than 3 small biscuits in her crop. My male, Herbie can eat as many as he wants. Bonnie will no longer eat pellets and seeds.

Lately (the last 3 days) she has been making crying noises when I wake her up. She is taking my finger and vibrating it in her beak. (the finger thing has been going on much longer than 3 days, but not all the time. Asking her yes or no questions, I think that she is hungry, but I also think something is wrong with her crop or possibly the mouth area (I heard her slowly trying to eat a few spray millet seeds (less than 10) one night in her cage after bedtime. There was one day where she actually ate half of a small spray millet overnight. Her poop was reddish and nothing else had changed in her diet. On my last vet visit, they looked down her throat which was a little rough and did a crop wash which didn't show anything abnormal. The doctor suggested that she was beaking my finger as a sign of affection. I do not think that is true as now there are crying noises when that happens. I should add that her voice has sounded rough the last few days. Some of that sounds like an infection, but there is no wheezing.

I should add that she stopped eating seeds a number of years ago. I just assumed she preferred the fresh food more.

Does anyone have any suggestions that might help, or questions for me that may give insight to what might be wrong?

I should add that Bonnie is about 13 years old and I had both birds since the were weaned.

thanks
Andrew & Bonnie
I also had a severe macaw whose blood work came back perfect but i knew something was terribly wrong because he wasnt acting right and started having feather color change. he was on a perfect diet also. finally after all the expensive blood work i insisted on a complete x-ray and they found a tumor.. i then put him through the ringer with chemotheraoy and for a while the tumor shrank but then it just started growing. there were days that he acted great and days he acted very sick. vet said at this point let him eat whatever he wants. the main thing was to keep his weight up.he had at this point gone downhill to the point that surgery would have killed him.vet was amazed at how well he was doing considering how sick he was. every 5 days i took him to the vet to have fluid drained from his tummy. i managed to keep him around for 1 year after diagnosis which i am grateful for. i had him for 31 years and every time i think about him i start to cry i miss him so much. point of all this is have a x-ray done and if bird is healthy enough maybe if they find anything it can be removed
 

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