Hormones

As I said before I removed the toy. I did add another toy (probably a mistake) which she bonded with in about 3 days. Paper shredding occurs if I leave paper in her cage overnight but she generally ignores paper during the day. A new behavior has started. She throws her pellets out of the cage when I cover her cage at night. Its quite annoying. My game plan is to put her in a dark area of the house and cover her cage. She has always had food available 24/7. I'm thinking of removing her food dishes at night. I hate to mention the V word but the posted video is informative.:51:
 
Why? How? Where do you get that information from? All of my zoological training indicates that it is time of year and day-length that stimulate animals to reproduce. That stimulus results in sex drive, it is not caused by sex drive. I'd be very interested to read sources that say otherwise! :)

Trish, you’re mostly right here. In most cases it’s the fluctuating environmental cues that trigger hormones - higher temps, the end of wet weather, UV fluctuations - though leking species require a social construct as well.

What you are missing - and where noodles consistently overstates this argument by generalizing it to all species unfortunately - is that not all bird species are seasonally triggered and are capable of breeding year round.

Ekkies being a prime example. They can be triggered to hormonal behavior and breeding not by seasonal fluctuations only - sure, spring can be the worst of it still - but by the presence of toys they may like (this is unique to the bird, and can be a rope, a bell, the list goes on) or a calorie rich diet. I can’t keep bells in Parker’s cage or I’ll get a raging mastubatory behavior that I could put on cue if I really wanted to. It ends once the toys are removed.
 
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Chris, I've never spoken about this online before because it was never really relevant, but our galah, Dominic, used to masturbate merrily. He usually only did it in the spring and moving into summer, but one thing the whole family noticed was that he became *far* less 'tetchy' once he had - um - assisted himself. My husband always wanted me to do a correlative analysis on the number of times Dom attacked our daughter against the number of times he - ah - relieved himself. All I can say is that when Dom was 'satisfied' he never once bit Ellie or flew after her to savage her ponytail.

The cockatoos appear to be governed by a seasonal cycle, as are the Alexandrines. Not so much the Lovies, though. Two of our four will masturbate on their perches from time to time, no matter what season it is. They'll carry on incessantly until something distracts them, but like Dommie they seem to settle down to a calmer demeanour afterwards.

Which is why I don't have a problem with it.

We had one massively hormonal lovebird for whom we could find no remedy. She seemed to be literally on fire from the inside out and she began to attack her mate as well as all members of the family. The vet recommended various strategies, but none worked, not even the dezzy-wotsit implant. I often wonder what happens to birds like these in the wild. Do they succumb to their hormones, or do they find a way to 'work it out'? Also, does captivity exacerbate hormonal overload? Does the provision of an opposite-gender companion improve things?

I've observed among my own flock that the happiest birds are those with regular access to normal sex. It's only the singletons who suffer problems. I would never tell anyone else what to do, I only offer my own experience as a basis for what I do with my own flock.

(Something deep inside makes me believe that if a bird comes to see an object like a bell as something akin to an inflatable doll, it had a problem *before* the bell appeared, not because of it.)

Scintillating dinnertime conversation, isn't it? :D :D :D
 
Not at all surprised to hear about Domnic. I never though to approach bites with a correlative analysis, but that would be quite clever!

I often wonder what happens to birds like these in the wild. Do they succumb to their hormones, or do they find a way to 'work it out'?

A quick google search - and it just hit me i searched this on my work computer :headwall: - many of them do indeed work it out.

I would never tell anyone else what to do

But thats why we're here, to tell people who don't know what to do :)

The cockatoos appear to be governed by a seasonal cycle, as are the Alexandrines. Not so much the Lovies, though.

I've noticed a number of the smaller species are capable of multiple clutches per year, so seasonality is important for when they begin laying, but once they do they can be prolific over the course of 6 months. Definitely something to keep in mind when discussing "seasons".

Something deep inside makes me believe that if a bird comes to see an object like a bell as something akin to an inflatable doll, it had a problem *before* the bell appeared, not because of it.

Reasonable minds can debate this question, sure. Theres no hard facts to address, only anecdotes so nobody will be righ tor wrong. But I think of it logically: chicken or the egg. Which came first, the bell or the obsession with the bell? In my mind, the toy first has to be introduced in order to develop an obsession with it. Theres nothing wrong with the bird itself.

And keep in mind with something like bells, the actual bell itself resembles a beak, complete with a tongue (the clapper). Many bell obsessions manifest in the form of regurgitating into the bell.
 
Just my experience,
My female GCC has self stimulates off and on her entire life of 6 years. With zero eggs.

I think chronic egg layers is a complex issue.

My boys self stimulate every breeding season, with anything they can find
 
Chris, I've never spoken about this online before because it was never really relevant, but our galah, Dominic, used to masturbate merrily. He usually only did it in the spring and moving into summer, but one thing the whole family noticed was that he became *far* less 'tetchy' once he had - um - assisted himself. My husband always wanted me to do a correlative analysis on the number of times Dom attacked our daughter against the number of times he - ah - relieved himself. All I can say is that when Dom was 'satisfied' he never once bit Ellie or flew after her to savage her ponytail.

The cockatoos appear to be governed by a seasonal cycle, as are the Alexandrines. Not so much the Lovies, though. Two of our four will masturbate on their perches from time to time, no matter what season it is. They'll carry on incessantly until something distracts them, but like Dommie they seem to settle down to a calmer demeanour afterwards.

Which is why I don't have a problem with it.

We had one massively hormonal lovebird for whom we could find no remedy. She seemed to be literally on fire from the inside out and she began to attack her mate as well as all members of the family. The vet recommended various strategies, but none worked, not even the dezzy-wotsit implant. I often wonder what happens to birds like these in the wild. Do they succumb to their hormones, or do they find a way to 'work it out'? Also, does captivity exacerbate hormonal overload? Does the provision of an opposite-gender companion improve things?

I've observed among my own flock that the happiest birds are those with regular access to normal sex. It's only the singletons who suffer problems. I would never tell anyone else what to do, I only offer my own experience as a basis for what I do with my own flock.

(Something deep inside makes me believe that if a bird comes to see an object like a bell as something akin to an inflatable doll, it had a problem *before* the bell appeared, not because of it.)

Scintillating dinnertime conversation, isn't it? :D :D :D

I know I irritate you, so I will keep this brief lol- but most cockatoos I have knows (u2s and m2s) are ready and willing all year (if stimulation is present for long enough)...The wrong environment and they can start laying or getting aggressive due to lighting etc.

Noodles has laid one egg, and it was not at a time when she has typically been hormonal in the past. I wasn't stimulating her (as far as I know) but I did return to in-person work about a month earlier.. Some of her worst hormones though, have occurred seemingly without warning (throughout the year).
 
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Just to clarify: noodles123, *you* don't irritate me. It's just the massive slabs of text you post, which are so tiresome and painstaking to slog through, often repeating stuff which is already posted more concisely in the stickies.

I enjoy disagreements because, as in this case, we have all (I hope) learned a lot from one another. There is no 'correct' answer and each of us will do what we feel is best for our birds. However, we're all a lot better-informed than we were before this thread, so: win-win. :)

Oh, and Chris: I don't use 'bell' bells. I use pipe bells. Sadly, once they realised there was no hope of ever killing the clapper, the Beaks lost interest entirely. 'Setta has no use for bells atall atall. ;)
 
I know I irritate you, so I will keep this brief lol- but most cockatoos I have knows (u2s and m2s) are ready and willing all year (if stimulation is present for long enough)...The wrong environment and they can start laying or getting aggressive due to lighting etc.

I don't know if I should put this in a whole new post because I'm about to go in a new direction here, but noodles123, you just touch on a point about seasonal breeding behavior that my husband and I have been discussing. You say your U2s and M2s exhibit hormonal behavior all year round. So does my U2. These birds are Indonesian birds, a place where food is most likely pretty abundant all year round. Meanwhile other popular Toos are Australian, which does have distinct "seasons".

I was thinking that's why Francis is hormonal all year - because there are no distinct seasons in equatorial areas. I could be wrong about it - I'm certainly no expert, but it just seems to me....

Feedback? Or post separately? :p
 
That's an *excellent* point, Francie's Mum, and it's perfectly correct to post it here. North of the Tropic of Capricorn, there are no distinct seasons, only 'the wet' and 'the dry' according to the monsoons. Day length is less distinct as well and temperatures don't vary much either. It could well have a bearing on the hormonal status of the tropical cockies and eclectus parrots etc compared to those from the temperate zone.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who knows about Palm Cockatoos. I used to have a relative who owned many pairs of tropical parrots, but sadly he passed away last year.

Most of the parrots in Oz do live south of the tropic, so you'd expect them to be more seasonal in their hormonal responses.
 
For anyone who wants to read further on the subject, I found a brilliant text in my university's library that outlines most of the current wisdom on avian hormonal cycles. Sadly, it's not easy to get hold of the text unless you have access to a university library, but those of you who do would find this very interesting reading indeed! (You can read it online if you log in through the institution you belong to).

J.C. Wingfield, B. Silverin,
24 - Ecophysiological Studies of Hormone–Behavior Relations in Birds,
Editor(s): Donald W. Pfaff, Arthur P. Arnold, Anne M. Etgen, Susan E. Fahrbach, Robert T. Rubin,
Hormones, Brain and Behavior (Second Edition),
Academic Press,
2009,
Pages 817-855,
ISBN 9780080887838
 
My little girl is definitely a girl. She laid an egg last night. Should I just remove the egg or boil it and put it back in the cage?
 
Freeze or Boil, but return to her so that she limits the number of eggs that she lays.
 
Freeze or Boil, but return to her so that she limits the number of eggs that she lays.


I called the Vet.'s office they said to leave it there for for 21-28 days try not to stimulate her.
 
yes- leave the egg until she loses interest!
 

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