How to handle an Amazon that has been aggressive all his life?

[lupegirl8]

My family has a 45+ year old double yellow headed Amazon parrot. He belonged to my great grandmother and came to us 5-7 years ago when she became too sick to care for him. He is nervous and aggressive towards everyone but my mom which leads to him spending most of his time in his cage. I just feel bad that such an intelligent, beautiful creature is spending all his time in a cage (it's a big cage with lots of toys, but still). I've tried to "make friends" with him, sitting outside the cage talking to him and offering him bites of the fruit I'm eating, but whenever I open the door to the cage (even just to change his food or water) he charges and bites at me. I think this is out of territorial instinct or fear. Outside the cage he will make noises at me and take food from my hands, but if I move in a way he doesn't like or get too close he will bite at the bars. Is there anything I can do, or is he so old that the ingrained behavior is probably unchangeable?

 

[PanZon]

Q: How to handle an Amazon that has been aggressive all his life?

A: Carefully

 

[SilverSage]

This poor bird. Have you ever met a victim of abuse or neglect that behaved this way in another species? I am not saying your grandmother was cruel to him, at least not intentionally, but yes it sounds very much like fear behavior to me. I am not an Amazon person however, and have little advice to give. I highly suggest contacting members here with direct Amazon knowledge, such as "henpecked" or others. You are new to the forum so you will not be able to message him directly. You would have to message a moderator and ask them to pass along a message to him from you, which they are happy to do.

I will say this though, PLEASE do not give up on your bird. He is NOT "too old" to learn. He is in a state of distrust to say the least. Learning what your parrot is thinking and how to work with him will take time, but in the end will be incredibly rewarding.

 

[lupegirl8]

I don't think my great grandmother did anything to instil fear in him. He always adored her. A few years before she died she came to visit him at our house (he had been away from her for years at this point) and he was sooo excited to see her. This bird that would hardly let other people near him absolutely melted in her hands. I certainly think there is a fear component, but most of it seems to be territorial (I assume since he's spent so much time in his cage he is very attached to it). The vet also suggested that he's old enough to have been imported from the wild back when that was a more common (and legal) way of obtaining parrots so that may be one reason he's less inclined to warm up to people.

Unfortunately I am away at college so there's not much I can do to work with him, but I'm hoping to find information to pass on to my family so that they might be able to work with him more.

 

[SilverSage]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply he had been afraid of HER, rather that if he had belonged to only one person and not socialized with others he is every likely isolated, and being away from her could be incredibly painful and damaging to him, and without learning to trust others and form new relationships he is suffering, even if the people in his life are doing everything they can for him.

 

[SandyBee]

Well till Henpecked gets here.
Trust takes time, sometimes a lot of it.
Talk to him, feed him, turn on music. Include him in as much as you can
Does he get out of his cage?
Can you bring him into another room with you?
Amazons are highly intelligent nd need stimulation.
You say he is good with your mom, does she handle him much?

 

[lupegirl8]

My mom handles him when she can, but between taking care of my little sister (who is training to be an aerialist in Cirque du Soleil and is incredibly busy herself), caring for our two dogs and two cats, working with our horse (whose companion horse just passed away last year so she's needing a lot more attention than usual), and generally managing the house she's extremely busy (and even when she has the time she doesn't necessarily have the energy). I wish I could help her more, but I'm an hour away at college without a car to go home regularly. We do have a smaller travel cage that we use to bring George (the parrot) into the living room so he can watch TV with us (he loves musicals). My mom also leaves the radio on near his cage when people are out of the house. My little sister has tried to work with George too, but when he did nothing but lash out even after weeks of trying she got frustrated and gave up.

Would there be any benefit in getting him a bird companion of some kind? I've read Amazons are very social, but since he's been away from birds for so long I don't know if maybe it would just make him more frightened/territorial.

 

[SilverSage]

That is a VERY busy household. I am glad the people are taking time to work with him on whatever level they can, but I am concerned that perhaps this is not the best place for him? It seems like he needs a lot of work.

You mentioned he could have been wild-caught, does he have a leg band of any sort, and if so is it one solid circle, or does it look like it was put on by pushing two ends together?

 

[lupegirl8]

I'm 99% sure he doesn't have a leg band. I can't remember ever seeing one on him, though I suppose there's a chance it was tucked up under his feathers and I just never saw it.

I think there's very little chance of finding George another home 1) Because I'm not sure there would be a lot of people willing to take in such a powerful bird especially since he's aggressive (that's part of the reason we got him in the first place; when my grandmother couldn't care for him anymore there wasn't really anyone else to take him) and 2) My dad grew up around George whenever he visited his grandparents (my great grandparents) and in some ways George is the only connection he still has to them. He absolutely loves George (George is actually a family name; my dad is named George too and so are my grandfather and great grandfather), but grew up being told "don't put your hands near George's cage or he will bite you" and so is pretty afraid of working with him (also he is away on business trips a lot). But I can't imagine he would be convinced to let him go to another home.

 

[Kiwibird]

It is very possible he was a wild caught, and they do tend to be a little more, well, wild than hand reared babies. A band could have been removed at any point in the birds life, and you would never know the difference. One of my moms zons is a wild caught, and despite having her for 40+ years, she is fiercely independent and definitely demands her respect It's hard to put your finger on, but her behavior, vocalizations, even the way she flies is just different than a domestically raised bird. She is handleable by people she knows and trusts and does follow basic commands like stepping up. For the most part though, she does her own thing and doesn't want to take orders from people (much of that is my mom allowing her to because she is not a destructive or particularly aggressive bird). It's a very stark comparison to her lifelong "mate" (never produced chicks, but have been a bonded pair for 40 years) whom my parents got as an unweaned baby and was always a pet. He has the same freedom she does, but he's much more reliant on people. He'll go to anyone, is super friendly and has never bit. Wild caughts are aging and becoming rarer, but there really is a difference in behavior many parrot people haven't experienced.

Another trait of amazons is they do tend to bond to one person, and a lot of work has to be done to socialize them to go to other people they see and interact with regularly. You get into even MORE work if you want them to go to strangers. And unless you've had them since they were very young, they do tend to make you EARN their trust and love. It sounds like this bird was bonded to your grandma and now that she is gone, has began bonding to your mom. Anyone else who wants to be his "friend" is going to have to put in a lot of time and effort building trust, and unfortunately, living far away your not really going to have the ability right now. People living in the house can offer treats to build trust and work with the bird AWAY from his cage until a better relationship is built. Kind of work backwards with him- work on stepping up away from the cage, and once he's proficient, work on stepping up off the cage, and once he proficient, work on stepping up from inside the cage. That could take months and months of daily training sessions to reach that point. The bird can also be included in family activities by bringing him around in a small cage OR (preferably) a t-perch. Amazons are social, and he would probably enjoy being able to watch tv or eat at the table with your family The more included a bird feels in their "flock", the better! And if old George, at this stage in life, doesn't magically want to become a cuddle bug, I almost say let him be and come around to whom he wants. Is he receiving appropriate care (diet/exercise/toys ect...)? Is he happy with his routine? Does he feel included? Does he understand he is loved? THOSE are the most important points. Best of luck.

 

[Timothy]

Kiwibird has given you an excellent answer. Im going to stress a point that has already been made. This is going to take time. lots of Time you need to earn his trust. And if you earn 50% of his trust then do something to scare him accidentally, that trust is gone. and you need to start from scratch. (in most cases) Patience, Patience Patience!

He sounds like an adorable Amazon, They are super intelligent and he has had what sounds like a rough life, possibly being wild caught and all.

He deserves to be happy and you sound like your doing everything in your power to make that possible. Thank you! Tell your family not to give up and keep working on him. Don't ever force him to do anything. Only Coerce him with treats and baby talk. In time he will come around, i guarantee that (As long as you follow everybody's advice here)

Keep up the good work, and good luck to all of your family/George!!

 

[Birdman666]

Well, number one he's cage bound.

Number two, you're not "his person."

Number three, birds that do not get handled everyday do not stay tame...

This one hasn't been handled in years, so he is no longer tame. He was wild caught in all probability because at that age they all were.

He is going to be more aggressive in and around the cage because that is his territory, his nest, and he will defend it to the death. That little bit of space is all he has left, and he will drive people away from him.

Therefore you need to work with him away from the cage, where he can't see it. A lot of the aggression is probably territorialism. Where there is nothing to defend, the aggressive behavior stops....

You need to start over from square one with this bird. Clip him. stick train him. Get him out away from his cage, then do basic taming and training, step up and touching excercises.

Set a routine with this bird. Try and handle him the same time, the same way every day. Then slowly add things to his training routine.

 

[henpecked]

IMO , it's not so much changing his behavior as you understanding it. I think some insight into his behavior might help. I 've read your post several times and thought about my reply. Zons need to bond and when they do it's serious.He bonded with your grandmother, the problem was he didn't socialize with others. Your mother is the closest replacement he can find. If some one who reminded him of your grand mother were to meet him ,, he'd instantly go to them. He's very insecure and looking for a "rock to hold on to". Because he's insecure , he tries to control as much of his situation as he can. That's why you think he's cage aggressive, it's because he's in control of that piece of his world. Learn not to put yourself in the position of receiving bites, learn to avoid them. You don't want him controlling things with bites. Instead make your "attentions" harder to come by. Play a little harder to get. Stop doing something before he wants you to. Once you "turn the corner" you can earn his trust by making small decisions for him. If your mother doesn't want the challenge (very understandable) she needs to get out of his life and you need to take over.Understand i'm not talking about people moving out of the house but being involved with the bird. maybe put it in your room. I could write a book here but will try not too. Regardless, it's a "tough row to hoe" , Don't be offended but this is a perfect example of why we need to socialize our birds as best we can. The first few friends are hard to make but after that it's easy. He can be turned around, he doesn't have to be that way the rest of his life.he just needs one "friend" and then another and another. I don't mean to belittle or criticize you, thank you for caring enough about an older zon to ask for our help.God Bless you.

BTW i have a 44 yr old hen YNA. She is very bonded to me. I've had her since she was 3 wks old. I know that if i past before her she could still find someone like you (who cares) because she's so well socialized. She's a joy to be around and just wants to belong. Socialize,socialize,socialize at any age.

 

[Timothy]

Henpecked is right, and id just like to add that once you make a breakthrough your going to find it very rewarding. I've been around alot of re homed birds, consignment birds, and older adoptions. And i have to say, sometimes those birds who were "Aggressive" or "Cage bound" or "Frightened" sometimes make the very BEST companions. They realize what they were missing out on and once you breakthrough to them they will do everything they can to maintain that happiness.

 

[Birdman666]

That's true.

ALL amazons have to get over the hump in order to trust you...

Getting them over that hump is the challenge.

Once you get over the hump you're golden...

Until then? Watch your fingers, especially your thumbs. Always remember to tuck in your thumbs when dealing with a less than trained amazon, because that is absolutely the first thing they go for. If it's sticking out, they will hit it.