Life Span Falling, What Age is Now Old?

[SailBoat]

I haven't checked in here lately as it took me a long time to get over losing Mark, and then we adopted Percy who died at the vet's almost a year ago due to terrible diet-related health problems from her previous life.
Now we only have one bird, a quaker named Lucky. As best we can tell he is at least 18 yrs old, based on leg band info, the year he flew into a friend's backyard, and how long we've had him.

When Mark got sick I did all the obsessive research I could on quaker lifespans and kept getting the up to 40 yrs response from 'informational' sources like books, articles & websites. But what I found was that actual people talking about their bird's age at death were consistently around 20yrs.
I know quakers have FLD, and that was a huge part of Percy's health issues, but now Lucky just 'looks' like an older guy even without health problems.
He just seems a little more frail, his eye rings look more like an old person's wrinkles. Same with his feet. His beak cuticle has more 'defects' and he doesn't seem to go into full molt as often.
His environment is action-packed, he gets good sleep, diet is as good as he tolerates, etc.
I just get an 'old person' vibe from him now. At least I won't be blind-sided if he dies sooner than later, unlike when Mark died, knowing that 'up to 40 yrs' is the far far reaches of quaker lifespans and 20 seems more average.

Thank-you, for all you do for your Parrots!

If you have not had your Lucky into your Avian Vet of late, please do so! Have a full blood spectrum completed and look for specific illness of older Parrots.

We keep a really close watch on our Amazon's chems and are always adjusting diet to what we are seeing. Our Amazons commonly come to us sick and we keep very close watch on them.

It maybe possible that with your AV's support, Lucky may be a bit more active. More importantly, you will have knowledge and I have always found that useful as we fight for every additional day with our Amazon!

 

[GaleriaGila]

A couple more of my 2 cents...
At the recent Avian Vet visit, my wonderful dvm said he thought the Rb was good for another 20 years...
The vet remarked that the Rb was of the old generations. His parents were wild-caught so his genetic hybrid is broad in diversity ... I forget his exact term. He said even a few generations of inbreeding or poor breeding is lowering age hopes. And it's the really POPULAR species which have of course been captive-bred the most. That plus the worsening diet situation mentioned already, and...
I guess that's why this thread is all about.
All my love to you rescuers, all the time.

 

[NWQuakers]

I didn't think about inbreeding and bad genetic stock being such a factor in parrots, but it makes sense.
I have a backyard-bred rottweiler who really demonstrates why most pets shouldn't be bred. We love her to pieces, but know her lifespan will be shortened because of her defects.
Lucky is still decently active, just more strident about bedtime, and much less frantic now that he's not courting Percy all the time. His last vet check was great, thank goodness. He's always been healthy, even though he hates most foods (kibble, veggies, smoothies, fruit, and nutriberries are his main menu no matter what I try).
He once called me a f%$^er for telling him to eat his kale.

 

[MySweetJess]

I have a few times read "be sure to offer plenty of table food." Which I did and every night at 6:30 as soon as Jess heard that music at the beginning of NBC Nightly News now with Lester Holt but we went through a few announcers beginning with the one before Tom Brokaw, he would step on my knee and supper began with his seed/pellet mix and what I was eating. Later he might say "Wanna a piece of chee?" (cheese)

 

[SailBoat]

I have a few times read "be sure to offer plenty of table food." Which I did and every night at 6:30 as soon as Jess heard that music at the beginning of NBC Nightly News now with Lester Holt but we went through a few announcers beginning with the one before Tom Brokaw, he would step on my knee and supper began with his seed/pellet mix and what I was eating. Later he might say "Wanna a piece of chee?" (cheese)

Understanding that those comments where based on what the family was eating in the early 50's and before. Not what makes-up dinner today.

A Hot Dog in the early 50's is totally different dog from a Hot Dog today!

 

[RavensGryf]

A couple more of my 2 cents...
At the recent Avian Vet visit, my wonderful dvm said he thought the Rb was good for another 20 years...
The vet remarked that the Rb was of the old generations. His parents were wild-caught so his genetic hybrid is broad in diversity ... I forget his exact term. He said even a few generations of inbreeding or poor breeding is lowering age hopes. And it's the really POPULAR species which have of course been captive-bred the most. That plus the worsening diet situation mentioned already, and...
I guess that's why this thread is all about.
All my love to you rescuers, all the time.

That's so unfortunate. I never thought of it that way. Irresponsible breeding espeically of the most popular species, whether just out of ignorance or disregard for health because of profit. We just never know what's in their genetic backgrounds.

Robin is 23 years old this year, and a Red Bellied Parrot. Although I'll never know the answer, I wonder how close to the wild he is by generation?

 

[Dinosrawr]

I 100% agree and have already had the thoughts that many have mentioned. When talking with the avian DVM's at my vet's office, we have often discussed life spans, and their general rule of thumb is to cut a parrot's lifespan expectancy in half for the average bird owner. The reason being is diet, lack of exercise, and lack of mental stimulation that would be on par with their wild counter parts.

If we look at genetics, chances are majority of birds from pet stores are very closely related because of where they are initially purchased from. Generally most parrots in our stores here in Canada are supplied from Quebec or Ontario.

If you look at diet, non-parrot speciality stores tend to feed a horrendous diet. Every time I go to Petland or Petsmart, the parrots I see have blackened feathers that are tattered looking and almost oily because of the poor diet. So these poor babies often start off their juvenile years being fed awful food. Can you imagine feeding an infant crushed candy bars and saying it's a well balanced diet? It would be so hard on their system and it would age them, too.

If you look at their physicality, nearly all birds at pet stores are clipped to prevent escape. But this is a huge physical and mental factor on them. Avery turns four next week, and she still isn't confident in flying because she was clipped by 3 months of age and never fledged. Shiko is the exact opposite - he came from a breeder who let them fledge, and after a few weeks of flying only did a soft clip so that he could still fly but no further than 5 feet when he was to be shipped to me. Having them clipped without fledging can nearly destroy one of the most beautiful aspects of parrots.

I'm not necessarily against pet stores, because I believe parrot specialty stores take have taken the time to learn everything there is about proper parrot care and what it takes to ensure they live a long, enjoyable life with their humans. But the average pet store franchise doesn't care about the well being of the animals in the care unless the management in the store does. They're looking to make money because that's what they're designed on - they're for-profit organizations.

I think most of the parrots from ethical breeders will outlive most of their pet store friends, mainly because of their start in life. It's kind of the same as looking at an ethical breeder for dogs vs. a back yard breeder (like what was mentioned). They also care more about where the bird is going, whereas pet stores don't often have the staff educated enough to inform owners of what they really need before leaving the store with a new friend for life. I'm hoping Shiko and Avery will make it into their 30's, and I hope that I have them with me well into my 50's.

 

[rescuebird]

I read an article years ago in one of the pet industry magazines (I was managing a pet shop at the time) discussing the need for educating new owners about proper diet and exercise requirements for their birds. I don't remember all the statistics presented, but one that stuck in my mind was related to 'tiels. The article stated that cockatiels should live for 28-32 years but that recent research had shown an actual average age at death of just under 6 years! At the time, I had a cockatiel of about 30 years, who eventually passed at 31.

I still miss my Fred.

I wish I had kept the article. I don't remember enough now to know how rigorous their research was or where they collected the data. Even if those findings were based only on reports from non-specialist DVMs who typically only see birds when desperately ill, it's a sobering statistic - and one that caused our store, at least, to totally revise the way we weaned, fledged, housed, and fed our babies as well as the education we gave potential buyers.

I was fortunate to work for an independent shop determined to do right by the critters we handled... so many shops just broker parrots with little concern beyond profit. There's a nearby "specialist " shop that breaks my heart every time I have to go in for something I can't find elsewhere - so many miserable parrots living in such a stressful setting!

 

[Kentuckienne]

I read an article years ago in one of the pet industry magazines (I was managing a pet shop at the time) discussing the need for educating new owners about proper diet and exercise requirements for their birds. I don't remember all the statistics presented, but one that stuck in my mind was related to 'tiels. The article stated that cockatiels should live for 28-32 years but that recent research had shown an actual average age at death of just under 6 years! At the time, I had a cockatiel of about 30 years, who eventually passed at 31.

I still miss my Fred.

I wish I had kept the article. I don't remember enough now to know how rigorous their research was or where they collected the data. Even if those findings were based only on reports from non-specialist DVMs who typically only see birds when desperately ill, it's a sobering statistic - and one that caused our store, at least, to totally revise the way we weaned, fledged, housed, and fed our babies as well as the education we gave potential buyers.

I was fortunate to work for an independent shop determined to do right by the critters we handled... so many shops just broker parrots with little concern beyond profit. There's a nearby "specialist " shop that breaks my heart every time I have to go in for something I can't find elsewhere - so many miserable parrots living in such a stressful setting!

Interesting. I've been pondering this thread and still don't know what to think about our Gus. He's a B&G, about 14 years old. So we figured he'd have another 50-60 years of life. But he was malnourished as a baby, which resulted in kyphosis (hunch back) and resultant compression of his inner organs. Plus he's captive bred, so maybe some genetic anamolies are present. As a result of the kyphosis - and maybe because of not fledging, I don't know his history - he doesn't even try to flap his wings. If he falls off the perch he drops like a stone. His only joy in life is tearing big pieces of paper into little ones, so it's a challenge to keep him mentally stimulated.

That's a lot of strikes against longevity.

Are there statistics about the actual lifespan of B&G macaws in captivity? You said the average for 'tiles was SIX? For a bird that should live thirty years?

 

[rescuebird]

I'm sorry... it's been too long since I read the article. I'm sure they gave stats for B&Gs, but I just don't remember. 'Tiels stuck in my head because I had an elderly one at the time the article came out.

That being said, Fred came to me from a family that found him in their yard as a fledgling. They had him for 12 years, feeding a sunflower based seed mix from the discount store. In the time I had him, I was able to switch him to 75%pellets, 15% seeds, & 10% pellets. He was a flyer and got lots of exercise and out of cage time.

On the other hand, he struggled with chronic respiratory infections... developed a sneeze and raspy breathing spring and fall every year as the weather changed. My vet suspected lung scarring from before he came to me, perhaps during the time he was living wild.

I think the improvement in diet and keeping him fit helped his longevity, but he was never completely healthy. He lived to a ripe old age despite the challenges, though.

Enjoy every day with Gus... whether he is around for days or decades it won't be long enough, but he very well may outlive us all.