Milk Thistle

[Fiwi]

I have a hunch that Emmett may have liver damage b/c of the poor diet he ate with his previous owner. I have read that some of the symptoms include (which Emmett exhibits) are:

*diarrhea w/ greenish hue b/c of billiverdin being excreted.
*Poor feather quality (He has black tips on his)
*Dry, itchy skin (Emmett is missing a band of feathers around his neck. I often seeing him scratching this area with his feet).

Now, I'm no vet and I do intend to have bloodwork done in a couple of weeks. We are waiting b/c he doesn't seem to be in peril and with our recent move from MD to ME, he's stressed enough. I want him to settle a bit before I subject him to a blood draw and swabbing.

MY QUESTION IS: I've read Milk Thistle extract (w/o alcohol) is a very good support for liver damage in birds. Is there any harm is giving him some preemtively? I'm curious to see if his poop and itching improves while we are waiting to do the tests.

 

[ann]

i think if you give him a small diluted amount, it would be ok. I would make that vet appointment ASAP though. good luck and i hope he feels better!

 

[friedsoup]

Forget letting him settle if he has liver damage he needs a vet and it will take a week for results so that adds another week being sick you would not lie in bed and wait and your birds shouldn't have to either. let the vet perscribe any meds he needs. Good luck hope your bird gets well soon. I'm not trying to be an a--hole But from one who bought a bird for $150.00 then spent 1100.00 in vets bills to find out my bird had PPD and all this while being laid off. Ok enough rant sorry.

 

[Spiritbird]

I suggest you not look on the internet for an answer. Avian vet is the best way to go. The blood samples drawn will tell you if there is liver damage and then you may get a bottle of milk T to give the bird with the correct mix and amount. Vet also may suggest apple cider vinegar in the birds water.

 

[Fiwi]

Thanks for the replies. We did see the vet a couple of days ago. She did a gram stain and thought the rest of test could wait a week or so b/c he was stressed from the move. She said she would push for the tests if he presented sickly which he doesn't. I may be overreacting. I'm going to call her today and discuss this possibility with her.

Unfortunately there isn't an avian specific vet anywhere near me. The vet I am seeing has experience with parrots and said she wouldn't hesitate to send me to an expert (over 3 hours away) if there was something she couldn't handle.

 

[Molcan2]

You must have BW done, if there are liver problems there are medications you can start him on that may fix it but only if started early. If you wait too long you wont be able to undo the damage. I would consider having the BW done and if anything is abnormal then I would drive to the spe******t, its that important.

 

[Parrotmamma]

You might try feeding him some Herb salad by Twin beaks aviary. My birds love it . It has milk thistle in it and a lot of other great herbs that are really good for our feathered friends and helps them build their immune system. You can get it at mysafebirdstore.
I set a little bowl of it everyday for my fids.

 

[Fiwi]

Emmett's gram stain came back fine which is good b/c his last one showed 80% gram negative rods. So we are moving in the right direction. My vet is on vacation for the next week and a half, so we'll do the blood work as soon as she returns -- she feels he is stable enough to wait for the blood work. She has approved of me doing the aloe detox and milk thistle extract in the meantime. She said neither have negative side effects and they may help.

 

[Boysmom]

could you expand on the Aloe detox and milk thistle you are using? My girl has the dark bands on feathers from a seed only diet prior to living with me. her feathers have changed color some with diet change. I would love to try the detox to see if it would help. links and specifics about amounts and times will be appreciated.

 

[Fiwi]

could you expand on the Aloe detox and milk thistle you are using? My girl has the dark bands on feathers from a seed only diet prior to living with me. her feathers have changed color some with diet change. I would love to try the detox to see if it would help. links and specifics about amounts and times will be appreciated.

Here's a link I referred to:
Liver Disease / Fatty Liver in Birds (scroll down to the detox section).

Here's more info. on benefits of aloe detox from Land of Vos (read ALOE--PARROT PHARMACY IN A LEAF)
Land of Vos - General Care and Information Articles/Talk/Weaning/Aloe/General/Entertainment

RE: the milk thistle extract -- check with your vet, but another ekkie owner said she put a couple drops (alcohol-free) on the birdie bread daily and did so until it was all used up.

From what I've read, there are no negative side effects to either natural remedy, so it can't hurt. That being said, I do think it's important to discuss anything you intend to use with your avian vet first.

Good luck and keep us posted!



Good luck. Let us know how you make out!

 

[Oedipussrex]

I have to start by saying DO NOT use this as a guide for figuring out the dosage for any other bird before talking to your vet FIRST.

But i do want to share this information - because it points out quite plainly that not much milk thistle (if you use an extract) is needed at all, and might stop someone who reads this from making the mistake of buying it and giving too much to their bird.

Milk thistle was recommended by my vet, but she never specified the dose. After buying some alcohol free extract and researching the internet i could find no consensus and rang her back.

[i apologise to anyone who does not use the metric system- im in Aus and have no idea how to convert it, lol]

She told me that for a male new guinea Eclectus of pickle's age and weight he only needed 12-17mg (milligrams) three times a day.

Now, the extract comes in a 100ml bottle,
And it says on the bottle that there are 5000mg of milk thistle, for every 10ml of extract.

thats:
500mg/1ml and
50mg/0.1ml and
5mg/0.01ml

therefore his dosage is in fact (for this particular brand with the specific 5000mg/10ml concentration) ONLY 0.03ml three times a day.

NOT MUCH AT ALL - i actually have to go to my chemist tomorrow, because we don't own a syringe small enough to pick up this amount!

I do not wish to discredit the successful use of milk thistle, or to encourage anyone to use these numbers to base their own dosage off of. I merely want to make a point, that -especially in the extracted form- not much is needed at all. And while as a simple herb the results of giving a whole lot more of this to a bird may not be severe, it is unnecessary, and may cause other issues or discomfort.

I would recommend talking to your avian vet before supplementing anything from milk thistle to vitamins, whether it be a wholly natural product or medicinal, Veterinary advice cant hurt, only help you make sure you are doing what is right by your fid.

(yes i realize this contrary to my previous post here, i have deleted it because of what i have learned today, and apologise)

 

[snipher]

Oh you know to be honest I've been in another forum recently and one of the members there was advised by her to also give some milk thistle to her hens which is kind of weird. Only for her to find out that it really works on them as long as you put at least 2 drops of
milk thistle dosage into their water.

 

[Boysmom]

my vet said it was fine to follow this dosage for lily of the desert Aloe Detox. Ruby has the dark spots on her feathers, came to me with 2 bacterial crop infections ( which were treated with 2 rounds of antibiotics ) and was on a white seed only diet. She does have the greenish poops also. I am begining the detox today and will let you all know how it goes. It may take a while to see results. Vet said there is nothing harmful in the detox and that it may improve allover health of Ruby.

 

[Boogie]

My male eckie is still recovering from liver desease, and one of the first things the vet gave him orally was milk thistle. My vet said it was a great friend to a birds liver and giving milk thistle once liver desease was diagnosed is a great step towards recovery. Good luck with your baby and let us know what happens....